45th President of the United States, Donald Trump. (Vol 5)
Discussion
Tartan Pixie said:
No.
Turkey is geographically fated to be stuck between the middle east and Europe and that's not going to change. The architect of Turkey's foreign policy is Ahmet Davutoglu and one of his major themes is that Turkey must stabilise the middle east in order to reduce the pressure differential between European culture on one side and Saudi culture on the other. (My paraphrasing.)
From my detached pov in Scotland there are three distinct elements. One is a large financial and military investment in the horn of Africa (Somalia, Eritrea and Sudan) to prove they can provide stability in a way that decades of Saudi investment couldn't. Saudi investment came through hardline mosques which resolved the corruption problem but gave the horn of Africa a jihadi problem instead which, uh, didn't work out well for anyone. This has led to an investment race between various Gulf powers: https://www.criticalthreats.org/analysis/the-gulf-... (Was the first link on duck duck go, only skimmed it but it seems to talk about the situation.)
Another element is that once America stops pretending it knows what it's doing in Afghanistan and bogs off back home it will mean that the old silk road will be open again. The shortest land route from Asia to Europe is Islamabad - Kabul - Tehran - Istanbul and America's insistence on keeping that road closed is annoying an increasing number of people.
Element three is not getting sucked in to the Sunni/Shia divide. Turkey has good relations with Iran and the two countries share high levels of literacy and education.
One thing you may note is that all three of these elements have nothing whatsoever to do with the EU, this being the whole point of neo-Ottomanism. It's a shame the phrase has become so maligned in western discourse because when you look at what the Turks are trying to do there's some really good stuff in there.
I have major reservations about the Kurdish issue and support American actions in Syria more strongly than I can describe in this post but despite this I think western support for Turkey is important.
My reasons for wanting prosperity in the middle east are to do to with the outflowing of language and mathematics that it's been too long since we last saw but if nothing else then think of it this way. A combination of population explosion and climate change is going to see ever increasing numbers of immigrants to Europe and the single greatest way to combat this is to make north Africa as prosperous as we possibly can. I suspect bankrolling Turkey's efforts in the horn of Africa would pay back many times over.
Many thanks for both an interesting reply and for taking the time to make it.Turkey is geographically fated to be stuck between the middle east and Europe and that's not going to change. The architect of Turkey's foreign policy is Ahmet Davutoglu and one of his major themes is that Turkey must stabilise the middle east in order to reduce the pressure differential between European culture on one side and Saudi culture on the other. (My paraphrasing.)
From my detached pov in Scotland there are three distinct elements. One is a large financial and military investment in the horn of Africa (Somalia, Eritrea and Sudan) to prove they can provide stability in a way that decades of Saudi investment couldn't. Saudi investment came through hardline mosques which resolved the corruption problem but gave the horn of Africa a jihadi problem instead which, uh, didn't work out well for anyone. This has led to an investment race between various Gulf powers: https://www.criticalthreats.org/analysis/the-gulf-... (Was the first link on duck duck go, only skimmed it but it seems to talk about the situation.)
Another element is that once America stops pretending it knows what it's doing in Afghanistan and bogs off back home it will mean that the old silk road will be open again. The shortest land route from Asia to Europe is Islamabad - Kabul - Tehran - Istanbul and America's insistence on keeping that road closed is annoying an increasing number of people.
Element three is not getting sucked in to the Sunni/Shia divide. Turkey has good relations with Iran and the two countries share high levels of literacy and education.
One thing you may note is that all three of these elements have nothing whatsoever to do with the EU, this being the whole point of neo-Ottomanism. It's a shame the phrase has become so maligned in western discourse because when you look at what the Turks are trying to do there's some really good stuff in there.
I have major reservations about the Kurdish issue and support American actions in Syria more strongly than I can describe in this post but despite this I think western support for Turkey is important.
My reasons for wanting prosperity in the middle east are to do to with the outflowing of language and mathematics that it's been too long since we last saw but if nothing else then think of it this way. A combination of population explosion and climate change is going to see ever increasing numbers of immigrants to Europe and the single greatest way to combat this is to make north Africa as prosperous as we possibly can. I suspect bankrolling Turkey's efforts in the horn of Africa would pay back many times over.
Edited by Tartan Pixie on Tuesday 13th November 01:47
Appreciated.
gooner1 said:
Tartan Pixie said:
No.
Turkey is geographically fated to be stuck between the middle east and Europe and that's not going to change. The architect of Turkey's foreign policy is Ahmet Davutoglu and one of his major themes is that Turkey must stabilise the middle east in order to reduce the pressure differential between European culture on one side and Saudi culture on the other. (My paraphrasing.)
From my detached pov in Scotland there are three distinct elements. One is a large financial and military investment in the horn of Africa (Somalia, Eritrea and Sudan) to prove they can provide stability in a way that decades of Saudi investment couldn't. Saudi investment came through hardline mosques which resolved the corruption problem but gave the horn of Africa a jihadi problem instead which, uh, didn't work out well for anyone. This has led to an investment race between various Gulf powers: https://www.criticalthreats.org/analysis/the-gulf-... (Was the first link on duck duck go, only skimmed it but it seems to talk about the situation.)
Another element is that once America stops pretending it knows what it's doing in Afghanistan and bogs off back home it will mean that the old silk road will be open again. The shortest land route from Asia to Europe is Islamabad - Kabul - Tehran - Istanbul and America's insistence on keeping that road closed is annoying an increasing number of people.
Element three is not getting sucked in to the Sunni/Shia divide. Turkey has good relations with Iran and the two countries share high levels of literacy and education.
One thing you may note is that all three of these elements have nothing whatsoever to do with the EU, this being the whole point of neo-Ottomanism. It's a shame the phrase has become so maligned in western discourse because when you look at what the Turks are trying to do there's some really good stuff in there.
I have major reservations about the Kurdish issue and support American actions in Syria more strongly than I can describe in this post but despite this I think western support for Turkey is important.
My reasons for wanting prosperity in the middle east are to do to with the outflowing of language and mathematics that it's been too long since we last saw but if nothing else then think of it this way. A combination of population explosion and climate change is going to see ever increasing numbers of immigrants to Europe and the single greatest way to combat this is to make north Africa as prosperous as we possibly can. I suspect bankrolling Turkey's efforts in the horn of Africa would pay back many times over.
Many thanks for both an interesting reply and for taking the time to make it.Turkey is geographically fated to be stuck between the middle east and Europe and that's not going to change. The architect of Turkey's foreign policy is Ahmet Davutoglu and one of his major themes is that Turkey must stabilise the middle east in order to reduce the pressure differential between European culture on one side and Saudi culture on the other. (My paraphrasing.)
From my detached pov in Scotland there are three distinct elements. One is a large financial and military investment in the horn of Africa (Somalia, Eritrea and Sudan) to prove they can provide stability in a way that decades of Saudi investment couldn't. Saudi investment came through hardline mosques which resolved the corruption problem but gave the horn of Africa a jihadi problem instead which, uh, didn't work out well for anyone. This has led to an investment race between various Gulf powers: https://www.criticalthreats.org/analysis/the-gulf-... (Was the first link on duck duck go, only skimmed it but it seems to talk about the situation.)
Another element is that once America stops pretending it knows what it's doing in Afghanistan and bogs off back home it will mean that the old silk road will be open again. The shortest land route from Asia to Europe is Islamabad - Kabul - Tehran - Istanbul and America's insistence on keeping that road closed is annoying an increasing number of people.
Element three is not getting sucked in to the Sunni/Shia divide. Turkey has good relations with Iran and the two countries share high levels of literacy and education.
One thing you may note is that all three of these elements have nothing whatsoever to do with the EU, this being the whole point of neo-Ottomanism. It's a shame the phrase has become so maligned in western discourse because when you look at what the Turks are trying to do there's some really good stuff in there.
I have major reservations about the Kurdish issue and support American actions in Syria more strongly than I can describe in this post but despite this I think western support for Turkey is important.
My reasons for wanting prosperity in the middle east are to do to with the outflowing of language and mathematics that it's been too long since we last saw but if nothing else then think of it this way. A combination of population explosion and climate change is going to see ever increasing numbers of immigrants to Europe and the single greatest way to combat this is to make north Africa as prosperous as we possibly can. I suspect bankrolling Turkey's efforts in the horn of Africa would pay back many times over.
Edited by Tartan Pixie on Tuesday 13th November 01:47
Appreciated.
Byker28i said:
saaby93 said:
Wrong guess and therefore not 'exactly' 
The intern issue is a distraction
The point was Acosta was (rudely) trying for a third question when he was asked to give the mike away, yet it was reported widely as though it was his first.
It's put what was otherwise a dull press conference, centre stage
As Matis says, Acosta will likely shortly be let back in, and both CNN and the White House will have enjoyed the publicity
Saaby still trying to excuse whitehouse behaviourThe intern issue is a distraction
The point was Acosta was (rudely) trying for a third question when he was asked to give the mike away, yet it was reported widely as though it was his first.
It's put what was otherwise a dull press conference, centre stage
As Matis says, Acosta will likely shortly be let back in, and both CNN and the White House will have enjoyed the publicity
If any of the press had tried to go for a third question wouldnt they have been asked to move on too?
The trouble with Acosta, was that not only did he not give up the mike he was trying to hold onto it
The subsequent reporting was imbalanced as just about everyone (including me) got the impression he was being haranged for trying to ask a question.
Reporting has to depict things straight
saaby93 said:
Of course not.. More like Byker28i still trying to misinterpret things
If any of the press had tried to go for a third question wouldnt they have been asked to move on too?
The trouble with Acosta, was that not only did he not give up the mike he was trying to hold onto it
The subsequent reporting was imbalanced as just about everyone (including me) got the impression he was being haranged for trying to ask a question.
Reporting has to depict things straight
You have a "special" way of interpreting things.If any of the press had tried to go for a third question wouldnt they have been asked to move on too?
The trouble with Acosta, was that not only did he not give up the mike he was trying to hold onto it
The subsequent reporting was imbalanced as just about everyone (including me) got the impression he was being haranged for trying to ask a question.
Reporting has to depict things straight
saaby93 said:
Byker28i said:
saaby93 said:
Wrong guess and therefore not 'exactly'
The intern issue is a distraction
The point was Acosta was (rudely) trying for a third question when he was asked to give the mike away, yet it was reported widely as though it was his first.
It's put what was otherwise a dull press conference, centre stage
As Matis says, Acosta will likely shortly be let back in, and both CNN and the White House will have enjoyed the publicity
Saaby still trying to excuse whitehouse behaviourThe intern issue is a distraction
The point was Acosta was (rudely) trying for a third question when he was asked to give the mike away, yet it was reported widely as though it was his first.
It's put what was otherwise a dull press conference, centre stage
As Matis says, Acosta will likely shortly be let back in, and both CNN and the White House will have enjoyed the publicity
If any of the press had tried to go for a third question wouldnt they have been asked to move on too?
The trouble with Acosta, was that not only did he not give up the mike he was trying to hold onto it
The subsequent reporting was imbalanced as just about everyone (including me) got the impression he was being haranged for trying to ask a question.
Reporting has to depict things straight
gooner1 said:
Tartan Pixie said:
No.
Turkey is geographically fated to be stuck between the middle east and Europe and that's not going to change. The architect of Turkey's foreign policy is Ahmet Davutoglu and one of his major themes is that Turkey must stabilise the middle east in order to reduce the pressure differential between European culture on one side and Saudi culture on the other. (My paraphrasing.)
From my detached pov in Scotland there are three distinct elements. One is a large financial and military investment in the horn of Africa (Somalia, Eritrea and Sudan) to prove they can provide stability in a way that decades of Saudi investment couldn't. Saudi investment came through hardline mosques which resolved the corruption problem but gave the horn of Africa a jihadi problem instead which, uh, didn't work out well for anyone. This has led to an investment race between various Gulf powers: https://www.criticalthreats.org/analysis/the-gulf-... (Was the first link on duck duck go, only skimmed it but it seems to talk about the situation.)
Another element is that once America stops pretending it knows what it's doing in Afghanistan and bogs off back home it will mean that the old silk road will be open again. The shortest land route from Asia to Europe is Islamabad - Kabul - Tehran - Istanbul and America's insistence on keeping that road closed is annoying an increasing number of people.
Element three is not getting sucked in to the Sunni/Shia divide. Turkey has good relations with Iran and the two countries share high levels of literacy and education.
One thing you may note is that all three of these elements have nothing whatsoever to do with the EU, this being the whole point of neo-Ottomanism. It's a shame the phrase has become so maligned in western discourse because when you look at what the Turks are trying to do there's some really good stuff in there.
I have major reservations about the Kurdish issue and support American actions in Syria more strongly than I can describe in this post but despite this I think western support for Turkey is important.
My reasons for wanting prosperity in the middle east are to do to with the outflowing of language and mathematics that it's been too long since we last saw but if nothing else then think of it this way. A combination of population explosion and climate change is going to see ever increasing numbers of immigrants to Europe and the single greatest way to combat this is to make north Africa as prosperous as we possibly can. I suspect bankrolling Turkey's efforts in the horn of Africa would pay back many times over.
Many thanks for both an interesting reply and for taking the time to make it.Turkey is geographically fated to be stuck between the middle east and Europe and that's not going to change. The architect of Turkey's foreign policy is Ahmet Davutoglu and one of his major themes is that Turkey must stabilise the middle east in order to reduce the pressure differential between European culture on one side and Saudi culture on the other. (My paraphrasing.)
From my detached pov in Scotland there are three distinct elements. One is a large financial and military investment in the horn of Africa (Somalia, Eritrea and Sudan) to prove they can provide stability in a way that decades of Saudi investment couldn't. Saudi investment came through hardline mosques which resolved the corruption problem but gave the horn of Africa a jihadi problem instead which, uh, didn't work out well for anyone. This has led to an investment race between various Gulf powers: https://www.criticalthreats.org/analysis/the-gulf-... (Was the first link on duck duck go, only skimmed it but it seems to talk about the situation.)
Another element is that once America stops pretending it knows what it's doing in Afghanistan and bogs off back home it will mean that the old silk road will be open again. The shortest land route from Asia to Europe is Islamabad - Kabul - Tehran - Istanbul and America's insistence on keeping that road closed is annoying an increasing number of people.
Element three is not getting sucked in to the Sunni/Shia divide. Turkey has good relations with Iran and the two countries share high levels of literacy and education.
One thing you may note is that all three of these elements have nothing whatsoever to do with the EU, this being the whole point of neo-Ottomanism. It's a shame the phrase has become so maligned in western discourse because when you look at what the Turks are trying to do there's some really good stuff in there.
I have major reservations about the Kurdish issue and support American actions in Syria more strongly than I can describe in this post but despite this I think western support for Turkey is important.
My reasons for wanting prosperity in the middle east are to do to with the outflowing of language and mathematics that it's been too long since we last saw but if nothing else then think of it this way. A combination of population explosion and climate change is going to see ever increasing numbers of immigrants to Europe and the single greatest way to combat this is to make north Africa as prosperous as we possibly can. I suspect bankrolling Turkey's efforts in the horn of Africa would pay back many times over.
Edited by Tartan Pixie on Tuesday 13th November 01:47
Appreciated.
saaby93 said:
The point was Acosta was (rudely) trying for a third question when he was asked to give the mike away, yet it was reported widely as though it was his first.
WRONG. The point is that Acosta was accused of assaulting an intern (and whilst he clearly touches her there is no sane person alive who would consider it an assault) and this was supported with a doctored video.Voldemort said:
saaby93 said:
The point was Acosta was (rudely) trying for a third question when he was asked to give the mike away, yet it was reported widely as though it was his first.
WRONG. The point is that Acosta was accused of assaulting an intern (and whilst he clearly touches her there is no sane person alive who would consider it an assault) and this was supported with a doctored video.The mike issue was what led to it all - how many (sane) people knew he'd already asked 2 questions when he refused to let go?
Anyway it got us all talking about it which no doubt pleases CNN and the white house wont mind too much either
saaby93 said:
That came later and we can argue about who made the video sperarately
The mike issue was what led to it all - how many (sane) people knew he'd already asked 2 questions?
No, it wasn't widely reported that it was his first question, not in any of the coverage that I saw. The mike issue was what led to it all - how many (sane) people knew he'd already asked 2 questions?
It wasn't widely reported that he was only supposed to be asking one question, the general theme of the reporting was that he was pressing Trump for an answer to a difficult question when the intern stepped in to take/snatch the microphone from him and from that, he was accused of assault.
saaby93 said:
That came later and we can argue about who made the video separately
The mike issue was what led to it all - how many (sane) people knew he'd already asked 2 questions when he refused to let go?
Anyway it got us all talking about it which no doubt pleases CNN and the white house wont mind too much either
It's Saaby's world, we all just live in it.The mike issue was what led to it all - how many (sane) people knew he'd already asked 2 questions when he refused to let go?
Anyway it got us all talking about it which no doubt pleases CNN and the white house wont mind too much either
Byker28i said:
Countdown said:
You know that trumpy bear is made in China and isn't suitable for children under 12..."I bought the deluxe version that comes with payoff money to keep Barbie quiet."
https://twitter.com/search?q=trumpy+bear&ref_s...
Byker28i said:
Byker28i said:
Corsi says he's going to be indicted for perjury over the collusion
https://www.nbcnews.com/politics/justice-departmen...
This is interesting if we recognise that Cohen has also been speaking to Mueller recentlyhttps://www.nbcnews.com/politics/justice-departmen...
https://www.cnbc.com/2018/11/12/ex-trump-lawyer-mi...
We know from testimony from Trump aide John Mashburnon 25 April 2016, Mifsud told Papadopoulos the Kremlin had stolen Clinton emails. We also know that this then involved Flynn, Papadopoulos, Schmitz, Bannon, Conway, Clovis, Manafort, Kushner and trumps.
Assistance, dirt etc in exchange for sanctions relief.
This led to the trump tower meeting, the Mayflower hotel meeting, We know Corsi and Cohen took trips to Italy at the same time, when Mifsud was also there. It's said that Cohen then went to Prague to pay off the hackers, $2m by all accounts.
And they weren't the only ones travelling europe, Page met a Russian agent in Hungary, Eric Prince went to Hungary and refused to tell Congress about it, Schmitz went to Hungary without explanation.
Edit - of course Papadopolous met Mifsud in Italy at the same time... Mifsud has disappeared. Another russian GRU officer pretending to be someone else?
Corsi and Cohen know all this. No wonder Mueller is interviewing them at length and Corsi says he'll be indicted.
Edited by Byker28i on Tuesday 13th November 08:11
"They told me they were going to indict me," he told NBC News in a phone interview Monday.
"This was one of the most confusing and frightening things I've experienced. I'm 72 years and I'm afraid they're going to lock me up and put me in solitary confinement."
Break out the tiny violins.
This is interesting in Kemps attempt of vote suppression in Georgia. A judge has ordered a review of the provisional ballots.
The order by Judge Amy Totenberg blocks the Secretary of State from certifying the election until Friday and directs state and local officials to conduct a review of many of the provisional ballots
The state also has to provide new, rolling updates of why provisional ballots were rejected and to set up a hotline for voters so they can determine whether their provisional ballots were counted
https://politics.myajc.com/news/state--regional-go...
The court order is here
https://cmgwsbradiojamiedupree.files.wordpress.com...
The order by Judge Amy Totenberg blocks the Secretary of State from certifying the election until Friday and directs state and local officials to conduct a review of many of the provisional ballots
The state also has to provide new, rolling updates of why provisional ballots were rejected and to set up a hotline for voters so they can determine whether their provisional ballots were counted
https://politics.myajc.com/news/state--regional-go...
The court order is here
https://cmgwsbradiojamiedupree.files.wordpress.com...
gooner1 said:
Tartan Pixie said:
You can look at what Europe is doing with the Iran deal as similar to the original petrodollar recycling agreement signed by Nixon (which ironically is the very thing the deal was designed to prevent but then Trump came along). The petrodollar itself is not a huge part of the American economy but its existence deepens capital markets, cheapens debt, etc. If oil sold in euros has access to European banks and America is cut off from oversight of those euros then said euros are going to end up sloshing about in European capital markets.
This creates a major divergence in national interest between the EU and USA which continued this month with SWIFT's announcement that it was going to comply with American sanctions which the EU politely called regrettable. If SWIFT goes so does American oversight of the global banking system.
If European and American financial interests continue to diverge and their arms procurement continue to diverge then we have the ingredients required for two distinct and opposing power blocks. As a UK citizen this is somewhat concerning to me.
It's in Turkey's interest to crack this dam of American hegemony open because if they can place themselves as a conduit for goods and financial services between the middle east and Europe it's not only lucrative but gives them the ability to detach themselves from American money and arms where appropriate. This fits perfectly with Turkey's geostrategic position which relies on playing great powers off against one another in order not to be dominated by any one of them.
The Saudis see these changing winds and are not only pursuing rapprochement with Syria but also exploring an end to OPEC. Saudi politics is clear as mud to me so I'm not putting weight on either of those links until I see facts on the ground but it's enough to say that for the world of geopolitics events are moving a danm sight faster than most of us realise.
Does the above bring the inclusion of Turkey into the EU ever closer?This creates a major divergence in national interest between the EU and USA which continued this month with SWIFT's announcement that it was going to comply with American sanctions which the EU politely called regrettable. If SWIFT goes so does American oversight of the global banking system.
If European and American financial interests continue to diverge and their arms procurement continue to diverge then we have the ingredients required for two distinct and opposing power blocks. As a UK citizen this is somewhat concerning to me.
It's in Turkey's interest to crack this dam of American hegemony open because if they can place themselves as a conduit for goods and financial services between the middle east and Europe it's not only lucrative but gives them the ability to detach themselves from American money and arms where appropriate. This fits perfectly with Turkey's geostrategic position which relies on playing great powers off against one another in order not to be dominated by any one of them.
The Saudis see these changing winds and are not only pursuing rapprochement with Syria but also exploring an end to OPEC. Saudi politics is clear as mud to me so I'm not putting weight on either of those links until I see facts on the ground but it's enough to say that for the world of geopolitics events are moving a danm sight faster than most of us realise.
Lazermilk said:
Corsi said:
"They told me they were going to indict me," he told NBC News in a phone interview Monday.
"This was one of the most confusing and frightening things I've experienced. I'm 72 years and I'm afraid they're going to lock me up and put me in solitary confinement."
Break out the tiny violins.
Corsi is the guy that relentlessly pushed birther conspiracies. I'd say there isn't a tiny enough violin in the world! "They told me they were going to indict me," he told NBC News in a phone interview Monday.
"This was one of the most confusing and frightening things I've experienced. I'm 72 years and I'm afraid they're going to lock me up and put me in solitary confinement."
Break out the tiny violins.
Halb said:
Anyone catch Last Week Tonight last night? It had a fun lil bit on Whitaker...he's a unit. 
Purely cynical - it’s how he gets the non-metropolitan vote that cements him in office.Tartan Pixie said:
Turkey
what do you think on Edrogan's move towards a more hardline Islamic nation?
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