Coronavirus - the killer flu that will wipe us out? (Vol. 5)

[anonymous-user]

EddieSteadyGo said:

What point do you think the article makes which we are missing? Is it that herd immunity isn't viable because less than 1% are currently infected in Austria? Why is that a logical conclusion?

To keep the numbers simple if 1% tested positive in the 1st week of April, then considering the spread prior to the lockdown it might be the case that perhaps 5% overall have been infected in Austria.

The question that suggests to me is did they introduce their lockdown too early?

I can't imagine herd immunity via infection is in the top 5 of austria's preferred options. So in that sense, I would say no.

[dave_s13]

MOTORVATOR said:

I think its important that we recognise these are the real forward facing staff not a fully suited and booted chiropodist taking a look at an ingrown toenail.
.

Just so you know. The podiatrists (chiropodists) have been redeployed to support the district nursing teams with things like insulin injection visits, wound care visits and general adl stuff. As well as maintaining a caseload of only the very high risk patients. And also maintaining a virtual clinical service for those not in the essential category.

As is similar with most of the allied health professionals as the moment, we are supporting the nursing service so nurses can be freed up to go into hospital and keeping our high risk/vulnerable patients out of hospital as much as is possible.

Appreciate it wasn't a dig as such but thought it might be interesting for people to know. Oh and our dept has enough PPE at present to last us roughly 30 weeks.

Personally though I started a secondment in Feb taking me out of clinic, then this all kicked off...but even I've been redeployed to support staff with using clinical systems....I'm also in the pot of staff that can be redeployed clinically but as the moment we are managing fine.

Edited by dave_s13 on Saturday 11th April 20:30

Edited by dave_s13 on Saturday 11th April 20:32

[EddieSteadyGo]

Sambucket said:

EddieSteadyGo said:

What point do you think the article makes which we are missing? Is it that herd immunity isn't viable because less than 1% are currently infected in Austria? Why is that a logical conclusion?

To keep the numbers simple if 1% tested positive in the 1st week of April, then considering the spread prior to the lockdown it might be the case that perhaps 5% overall have been infected in Austria.

The question that suggests to me is did they introduce their lockdown too early?

I can't imagine herd immunity via infection is in the top 5 of austria's preferred options. So in that sense, I would say no.

Bearing in mind they are opening up all of their shops at the end of April, I think it does.

[p1stonhead]

Glad to have her up there in the higher levels of the government.

https://twitter.com/jamesmanning/status/1249002474...

[edh]

MX5Biologist said:

edh said:

Great post, thanks

I think "gamechanger" came from an early Johnson (or Hancock) press conference when they announced it to great fanfares as a deflection from whatever that days failings were (suspect it was inability to test NHS staff)

What the Prime Minister said:

The Prime Minister said:

We are in negotiations today to buy a so-called antibody test, as simple as a pregnancy test, that can tell whether you had had the disease, and , its early days, but if it works as its proponants claim, then we would buy quite literally hundreds of thousands kits as soon as practical, because obviously it has the potential to be a total game changer because once you know you have had it, you know you are likely to be less vulnerable, less likely to pass it on, and you can go back to work

https://www.msn.com/en-za/sport/rugby/pm-announces-new-covid-19-game-changer-testing-plans/vp-BB11qbgE

The rest of the clip was an annnouncement on a vaccine trial, and a hope to expand antigen testing. No menton of NHS staff testing, and certainly at that point, I don't really think it was really being discussed. A lot has happened in a short period, and its easy to conflate sppeches and announcements.

I interpret that entirely differently. At that time, the UK government had been approached by a test manufacturer, who made all sorts of claims about the test they were selling. I can tell you the 98% specificify/sensitivity isn't something thats come recently, its a fairly generic requirement for any high consequence screening test. The government scientists would have asked the manufacturer "so this test has 98%". I take the Prime Minister to be expressing cautious optimism, and who wouldn't be when presented by a manufacturer's claims. Its not like they would make them up, would they? 8 other manufacturers joined the competition. There was no great fanfare or deflection, just a suspension of comprehension. That the UK government is trying to recover money spent is quite unprecedented, and suggest that someone made a misrepresentation of facts to the government.

Those listening only heard:

The Prime Minister said:

We are in negotiations today to buy a so-called antibody test, as simple as a pregnancy test, that can tell whether you had had the disease, and we would buy quite literally hundreds of thousands kits as soon as practical, because obviously it [is a] total game changer because once you know you have had it, you know you are likely to be less vulnerable, less likely to pass it on, and you can go back to work

So this information had no place in a national press conf. as it was far to speculative and early stage. So why mention it?

I think all these messages are carefully calibrated & they anticipate how it will be reported. (I'm sure many people will confirm that when you tell a customer "we'll do our best to try to get it delivered tomorrow" they hear "it's definitely coming tomorrow"

It gave the press a new story. Not quite a "dead cat" but similar

[sim72]

p1stonhead said:

Glad to have her up there in the higher levels of the government.

https://twitter.com/jamesmanning/status/1249002474...

If that had been Abbott, it'd have been on the front page of all the rags. Do you think this one will?

[Exige77]

Matty3 said:

Exige77 said:

There are 100,000s PPE used every day. Sure you can find a few that are complaining but the vast majority have got their PPE.

It’s not something that can be magicked out now of thin air. There are 1,000s of point of use around the country and all have different demands each day depending on their patients.

This daily quest by the media to get “someone” in authority to apologise for their failings is quite ridiculous.

They are doing their very best.

It’s never going to be perfect.

Exige77 you have posted some of the most informative stuff on here from your first hand information from day 1 - I, for one, am really appreciative of this - you must be extremely proud to have a daughter fighting this outrage

My daughter’s colleagues are extremely dedicated to their work and will do what ever is needed for their patients. They sure don’t do it for the money.

Certainly a few times they have run out of stuff In the middle of the night and had to mix and match stuff and repurpose the odd bin bag but they are just getting on with it.

There’s always a few that are out of their comfort zone and will use every excuse to move away from the danger zone. It’s a close knit team and they know which colleagues they can count on.

I can’t elaborate but you can imagine in a life or death situation they need to cut a few corners.

Edited by Exige77 on Saturday 11th April 20:38

[Tony Starks]

Matty3 said:

sim72 said:

Matty3 said:

sim72 said:

Matty3 said:

sim72 said:

Herd immunity, I hear you say?

https://www.theguardian.com/world/2020/apr/10/less...

Don't you love the guardian - the last bastion of hope, reason and sensible reporting - read and believe?

Well, you could read it in the New York Times or the original Reuters feed where it originally came from if that makes you feel better?
https://www.nytimes.com/reuters/2020/04/10/world/e...
https://www.reuters.com/article/us-health-coronavi...

It's the press - tell you what, try scratching the surface and then if you are brave scratch a little deeper and read the whole article and make up YOUR own mind instead of just posting a link to an article you claerly havn't read.

I did actually read the whole article, although I don't know why I bothered since it appears to provide a different angle to the usual PH narrative, and will therefore be generally ignored.

Yep because it contains nothing of any investigative,material substance, it's a column inches puff - so doesn't stand up - next!

That policeman in the Guardian article is wasting a face mask, Al the fit tests I've had require no more than 2mm of stubble (we have fit tests and lung function tests twice a year at work due to silicosis).

[Wills2]

Penelope Stopit said:

NHS staff state that they are short of PPE

Goverment states there is enough PPE for NHS staff

I believe the NHS staff

What do posters here think about this?

I think everyone involved will be doing their best with regard to PPE, this isn't a conspiracy, are you suggesting there a millions of pieces of PPE sat somewhere but the right form hasn't been filled out so it's not moving?

[Dixy]

Garvin said:

If the frontline NHS staff are desperately short of PPE they would be dropping like flies with CV being so infectious. Only 19 have died to date. I think you must believe the NHS staff have superhuman immune systems.

The most offensive post I have ever read on piston heads.

[egor110]

What's the advice re attending a funeral if your aged 70

My step father who's 70 has been informed today his father has died ( not from covid) is he ok to come out of self isolation and travel 100 miles for the funeral ?

[21st Century Man]

Penelope Stopit said:

NHS staff state that they are short of PPE

Goverment states there is enough PPE for NHS staff

I believe the NHS staff

What do posters here think about this?

I don't see the two as being mutually exclusive so I can believe both, others can only see it as mutually exclusive so therefore to them only one can be true.

[RoadRailer]

shed driver said:

Last night I was working, as I have for the previous 3 nights on a Covid positive ward. PPE is a problem at times. There are different types of masks that fit different people, facial shape differs. We ran out of the mask I can wear, so I had to change to the one I knew I had failed a fit test on until I could get resupplied. There's plenty of medium and small gloves, not so many large ones, so mine are ripping doing patient care or procedures.

My main concern is the mental health issues. I made a video call to a relative last night so she could say goodbye to her mother.

At 5am I made another call informing her that her mother was dead. All she could say was "thank you"

I sat and cried. This is not how I envisaged ending my nursing career.

Oh, I've got three colleagues who have developed symptoms off my ward. PPE guidance was changed about 2 weeks before they went off. One is not expected to survive.

SD

Your experience echos Mrs Railers experiences, whilst at her trust there’s plenty of PPE for the ICU teams and the ‘hot’ wards (staff supervised whilst donning / removing PPE layers, triple gloved, face fit masks/goggles plus face screens etc) it seems there’s a difference on the wards as general care staff unused to being unable to touch face etc etc unlike the ITU and Theatre who are used to it from long procedures and maintaining sterile environs.

Some big differences between trusts too - all hearsay so not worth repeating here though.

[WindyCommon]

Penelope Stopit said:

NHS staff state that they are short of PPE

Goverment states there is enough PPE for NHS staff

I believe the NHS staff

What do posters here think about this?

I think your question is a classic example of a false dichotomy.

[21st Century Man]

WindyCommon said:

Penelope Stopit said:

NHS staff state that they are short of PPE

Goverment states there is enough PPE for NHS staff

I believe the NHS staff

What do posters here think about this?

I think your question is a classic example of a false dichotomy.

A corner stone of both politicians and media alike.

[Dixy]

shed driver said:

Last night I was working, as I have for the previous 3 nights on a Covid positive ward. PPE is a problem at times. There are different types of masks that fit different people, facial shape differs. We ran out of the mask I can wear, so I had to change to the one I knew I had failed a fit test on until I could get resupplied. There's plenty of medium and small gloves, not so many large ones, so mine are ripping doing patient care or procedures.

My main concern is the mental health issues. I made a video call to a relative last night so she could say goodbye to her mother.

At 5am I made another call informing her that her mother was dead. All she could say was "thank you"

I sat and cried. This is not how I envisaged ending my nursing career.

Oh, I've got three colleagues who have developed symptoms off my ward. PPE guidance was changed about 2 weeks before they went off. One is not expected to survive.

SD

I read this having spent an hour talking to my daughter, during the conversation I asked about PPE and she diverted the conversation 3 times before she admitted to going to Screwfix today and buying 10 sets of goggles, when she is operating she has all the equipment she needs but when she goes to the wards to check up as she does not need to get that close to a patient she has been told not to use a mask as they don't have enough. She is a surgeon and yesterday 10 hours into a 13 hour shift she was called down to A&E to someone who may be a poster on here, they had collided with a tree in a car that you would not normally use for essential journeys. 6 hours latter she went home.

When this is over there are going to be a lot of NHS staff with ptsd.

[dmsims]

Carl_Manchester said:

Penelope Stopit said:

NHS staff state that they are short of PPE

Goverment states there is enough PPE for NHS staff

I believe the NHS staff

What do posters here think about this?

I hope it drives change where the government acknowledges that outsourcing production of this stuff doesn’t work very well in a pandemic.

Is production an issue ?

[EddieSteadyGo]

WindyCommon said:

Penelope Stopit said:

NHS staff state that they are short of PPE

Goverment states there is enough PPE for NHS staff

I believe the NHS staff

What do posters here think about this?

I think your question is a classic example of a false dichotomy.

An absolute textbook one

[Penelope Stopit]

EddieSteadyGo said:

WindyCommon said:

Penelope Stopit said:

NHS staff state that they are short of PPE

Goverment states there is enough PPE for NHS staff

I believe the NHS staff

What do posters here think about this?

I think your question is a classic example of a false dichotomy.

An absolute textbook one

Depending upon what rocks ones boat hey

[Alucidnation]

Garvin said:

Penelope Stopit said:

NHS staff state that they are short of PPE

Goverment states there is enough PPE for NHS staff

I believe the NHS staff

What do posters here think about this?

If the frontline NHS staff are desperately short of PPE they would be dropping like flies with CV being so infectious. Only 19 have died to date. I think you must believe the NHS staff have superhuman immune systems.

21 NHS staff have now died, and the latest two were porters at a hospital in Oxford.

Their partners are also NHS staff working on the frontline.

I expect someone will trot out they had undiagnosed health conditions.