Discussion
Pieman68 said:
Guybrush said:
Agreed. You'd have to be pretty thick to do that.
Almost as thick as a man planning to sell his gold reserves, announcing it to the world and then selling at the lowest price in yearsRemind me which party that was again..................
You can't beat learning from your mistakes
Stickyfinger said:
Anybody noted just how soft the BBC are being with them vrs say the UKIP conference ?
They even portray the Momentum "Festival" as a gathering of nice people enjoying music and inclusive politics.....
And reporting the barmy pledges with complete seriousness and no counter.They even portray the Momentum "Festival" as a gathering of nice people enjoying music and inclusive politics.....
br d said:
Stickyfinger said:
Anybody noted just how soft the BBC are being with them vrs say the UKIP conference ?
They even portray the Momentum "Festival" as a gathering of nice people enjoying music and inclusive politics.....
And reporting the barmy pledges with complete seriousness and no counter.They even portray the Momentum "Festival" as a gathering of nice people enjoying music and inclusive politics.....
Guybrush said:
Trouble is, Labour's target market are the thick, naïve and plain too young to remember every time in the past they have left the economy in a terrible state. They have no incentive to steer away from their emotion-based and uncosted, hare-brained policies.
Like Brexit, all the Labour 'Heartlands' needed to be told was if we left the EU their summer holiday would cost £50 more and the vote would have gone the other way Guybrush said:
Pieman68 said:
Guybrush said:
Agreed. You'd have to be pretty thick to do that.
Almost as thick as a man planning to sell his gold reserves, announcing it to the world and then selling at the lowest price in yearsRemind me which party that was again..................
You can't beat learning from your mistakes
Do you want to know how many of them are posting stuff saying that they will never vote for a Labour party led by Corbyn? I would approximate 75% at the moment!
Gargamel said:
Indeed a simple change would be to make Private Health care insurance tax free, plenty of companies offer this as a benefit, but we are taxed as part of salary.
I suspect these insurances would have wider uptake if they weren't "double taxed"
That is one thing that really does piss me off. Why should I be taxed for the privilege of placing less load on the NHS?I suspect these insurances would have wider uptake if they weren't "double taxed"
AstonZagato said:
Part of the problem with the NHS is that people value a service by price. If it is free, it is valueless (v. the HUGE number of people who miss their appointments) and if it is expensive, it must be good (private provision is often no better - just quicker - than the NHS).
We should be working out a way to break the health service into proper manageable units. Work out a way to show the users what they are spending (and charge them if they don't respect it). We still need the economies of scale but we need better control of the behemoth.
We also need to take it out of government control. That doesn't mean privatisation. It means depoliticising it. Make it like the BBC. Get some governance in place. Take quotas and check lists out of the hands of politicians. Give it some stability to plan, build, cut, expand, contract, decide.
The NHS is a fabulous idea. It is currently out of control and falling apart.
The biggest single thing you could do to fix the NHS' problems would be to move from payment for treatment to payment for outcomes.We should be working out a way to break the health service into proper manageable units. Work out a way to show the users what they are spending (and charge them if they don't respect it). We still need the economies of scale but we need better control of the behemoth.
We also need to take it out of government control. That doesn't mean privatisation. It means depoliticising it. Make it like the BBC. Get some governance in place. Take quotas and check lists out of the hands of politicians. Give it some stability to plan, build, cut, expand, contract, decide.
The NHS is a fabulous idea. It is currently out of control and falling apart.
This is, theoretically, at least, being addressed as part of the Sustainability & Transformation Plans being put in place to implement the NHS Five Year Forward View, I believe.
One ludicrous example I heard recently was a hospital doctor who put in place a system of video-conferencing to help his patients (children) and their parents learn to change their dressings at home. Better for the patient than having to come in to hospital to have them changed, cheaper for the NHS than having them attend, more likelihood of them being changed regularly, leading to probable better clinical outcomes, and even more benefit to the economy from parents not having to take time out from working to take their kids to hospital.
The whole project got canned, because even though it was a win overall for the NHS and everyone else, the fee the hospital Trust could charge the CCG for a teleconsultation was too low, so the doctor was told to stop providing them.
Johnnytheboy said:
Problem is, even if we did make the NHS non-free at the point of use (e.g. charge for GP appts), we'd end up giving so many groups exemptions to this (kids, folk on benefits, pensioners, etc.) it would be rendered meaningless.
If you're ever in any doubt about the cost of medical treatment, take a cat to the vet one single injection! Okay, JK would say that's typical filthy capitalist exploitation, but even if you halve the price it's still horrific.Talksteer said:
Interesting view point int he Telegraph:
"Don't be afraid of Jeremy Corbyn. Be afraid of what comes after him"
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2016/09/23/dont-be...
Whatever you think about Corbyn his message does have hold over a substantial number of people. The current government do need to take the views of these people into account and in the long term look at changing them.
Imagine someone with very similar rhetoric to Jeremy Corbyn around fairness, equality etc but without the dogma associated with the nuclear deterant, not singing the national anthem and dressing like a dork.
With the exception of the not dressing like a dork bit you've just described Ed Miliband's pitch for the 2015 GE; he got beaten."Don't be afraid of Jeremy Corbyn. Be afraid of what comes after him"
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2016/09/23/dont-be...
Whatever you think about Corbyn his message does have hold over a substantial number of people. The current government do need to take the views of these people into account and in the long term look at changing them.
Imagine someone with very similar rhetoric to Jeremy Corbyn around fairness, equality etc but without the dogma associated with the nuclear deterant, not singing the national anthem and dressing like a dork.
Ridgemont said:
McDonnel speech on now: 'we have to be prepared to move into Government now..'
David Steel said "Go back to your constituencies, and prepare for government!"; the Liberals got humped at the next GE and later merged with the remains of the SDP. 
V6Pushfit said:
The Hypno-Toad said:
Easy.
Corbyn is The Glorious Leader and wants to decommission Trident
Anyone who supports Trident is clearly trying to undermine The Glorious Leader and is therefore a Blairite splitter.
What he says goes.
Therefore despite whatever they will say in their manifesto, Trident will be scrapped if Corbyn ever gets into number 10.
I strongly suspect that would be the case with any number of their manifesto 'promises'.
We'll be overrun by immigrants and ISIS in no time with a 'wont say boo to a goose' PM. Great Britain will probably lose the 'Great' too as he wont want to offend any of the non-great countriesCorbyn is The Glorious Leader and wants to decommission Trident
Anyone who supports Trident is clearly trying to undermine The Glorious Leader and is therefore a Blairite splitter.
What he says goes.
Therefore despite whatever they will say in their manifesto, Trident will be scrapped if Corbyn ever gets into number 10.
I strongly suspect that would be the case with any number of their manifesto 'promises'.
No, it'll be fine, he'll talk it through with them.......
.....as long as he has a TelePrompTer in place.
In all honesty I've never seen a larger collection of idiots gathered together in one place than at this conference. Labour have had some loonies in the past but this lot beats them all.
AstonZagato said:
I'm not sure. I think that if you got a bill that read:
GP Appointment: £100.00
NHS Contribution: £100.00
Prescription cost: £78:00
NHS Contribution: £78:00
Total: £178.00
To pay: £0.00
Or
Coronary bypass surgery: £80,000
Anaesthetic: £10,000
Intensive care: £130,000
Drugs: £5,000
NHS Contribution: £225,000
To pay: £0.00
Then I think people would value the service more than they do currently ("it's my right").
If you sit people down with the commissioning groups they start off wanting their pet service funded to gold-plated levels. When you start to ask them what they would cut to fund it, they start to realise the limitations.
If people knew what it cost, they would be more circumspect about how they used it (turning up to appointments for a start).
Great idea. (although I shudder to think how much the NHS would spend on an IT system to actually impliment it!)GP Appointment: £100.00
NHS Contribution: £100.00
Prescription cost: £78:00
NHS Contribution: £78:00
Total: £178.00
To pay: £0.00
Or
Coronary bypass surgery: £80,000
Anaesthetic: £10,000
Intensive care: £130,000
Drugs: £5,000
NHS Contribution: £225,000
To pay: £0.00
Then I think people would value the service more than they do currently ("it's my right").
If you sit people down with the commissioning groups they start off wanting their pet service funded to gold-plated levels. When you start to ask them what they would cut to fund it, they start to realise the limitations.
If people knew what it cost, they would be more circumspect about how they used it (turning up to appointments for a start).
Both our kids were born outside the UK, the breakdown of costs was incredible (20k each, 18 insurance, 2 to pay)
fblm said:
AstonZagato said:
I'm not sure. I think that if you got a bill that read:
GP Appointment: £100.00
NHS Contribution: £100.00
Prescription cost: £78:00
NHS Contribution: £78:00
Total: £178.00
To pay: £0.00
Or
Coronary bypass surgery: £80,000
Anaesthetic: £10,000
Intensive care: £130,000
Drugs: £5,000
NHS Contribution: £225,000
To pay: £0.00
Then I think people would value the service more than they do currently ("it's my right").
If you sit people down with the commissioning groups they start off wanting their pet service funded to gold-plated levels. When you start to ask them what they would cut to fund it, they start to realise the limitations.
If people knew what it cost, they would be more circumspect about how they used it (turning up to appointments for a start).
Great idea. (although I shudder to think how much the NHS would spend on an IT system to actually impliment it!)GP Appointment: £100.00
NHS Contribution: £100.00
Prescription cost: £78:00
NHS Contribution: £78:00
Total: £178.00
To pay: £0.00
Or
Coronary bypass surgery: £80,000
Anaesthetic: £10,000
Intensive care: £130,000
Drugs: £5,000
NHS Contribution: £225,000
To pay: £0.00
Then I think people would value the service more than they do currently ("it's my right").
If you sit people down with the commissioning groups they start off wanting their pet service funded to gold-plated levels. When you start to ask them what they would cut to fund it, they start to realise the limitations.
If people knew what it cost, they would be more circumspect about how they used it (turning up to appointments for a start).
Both our kids were born outside the UK, the breakdown of costs was incredible (20k each, 18 insurance, 2 to pay)
It might also focus doctors on what things cost.
Dianne Abbot is on BBC Parliament re running her speech. When she said the Labour movement should "come together" I nearly did (on my own though)
And then conference sang Happy Birthday to you to Dianne
Now its Paul Flynne he looks so like Jezza its unreal
Wish Id recorded DIannes speech xxxx
Now that pesky man from Channel 4m is trying to embarrass the divine Emily Thornberry as to why her kids may have gone to something like a grammar school. An utter b
d to do that to Emily. And now its a woman I think she is called Angela Rayner (but I'm sure its Catherine Tate in anew role) shouting that that nasty Teresa May wants segregation,segregation,segregation and Tont Blair wanted immigtation immigration immigration
Its so exciting
d to do that to Emily. And now its a woman I think she is called Angela Rayner (but I'm sure its Catherine Tate in anew role) shouting that that nasty Teresa May wants segregation,segregation,segregation and Tont Blair wanted immigtation immigration immigrationIts so exciting
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