How do we think EU negotiations will go? (Vol 12)

[Digga]

Escapegoat said:

Nickgnome said:

Just No and if you’d been anywhere near contracts you’d understand why.

You're going to do this supercilious thing all the time?

PCSD. Post Contractual Stress Disorder. No laughing matter.

[anonymous-user]

psi310398 said:

And would possibly provoke the EU leaders into refusing an extension...

Project Remain seems to imagine their limitless indulgence to pursue unicorns. I suspect Macron and others might now want to concentrate minds.

Would be a good distraction for Macron, as the ECB has just told him his 2020 budget is bks and needs changing.

[amusingduck]

Nickgnome said:

p1stonhead said:

Saw a comment on twitter which I found quite relevant. MP’s have each been paid £250k since brexit and are now only being asked to read 120 pages in 4 days.

It’s hardly beyond them is it. Meaningful scrutiny doesn’t need to take months on 120 pages.

You could start by reading it and trying to understand every clause. Then come back and comment.

I've seen you launch into a condescending tirade about the sort of person who watches daytime TV based on nothing more than the knowledge that the poster had seen TV during the daytime on that particular day. If memory serves, the poster was WFH, or had a medical appointment.

Yet now you say that p1stonhead must read and understand every clause before being able to post an opinion. Why is the threshold so much higher for p1stonhead being able to voice his opinion than it is for you to cast judgement on people's lifestyles - especially their parenting ability?

[psi310398]

jsf said:

Would be a good distraction for Macron, as the ECB has just told him his 2020 budget is bks and needs changing.

Maybe but IIRC the French paid scant attention the last time they were told this, and the ECB and EU did nothing about it? But, of course, I forgot, this is a rules-based organisation .

[Blue62]

Pan Pan Pan said:

We have seen, that in both parliament, and the country, there are those who do not respect democracy, and want to ignore the result of a democratic vote.
I am not clear how another referendum will help the situation, because if the vote again goes the way of leave, the same anti democratic individuals will try to over turn that vote as well.
What would be the point in having any further general elections, or referenda, in the UK when those that don't get the result `they' wanted will either just ignore, or overturn the vote result, or worse still, try to gerrymander the vote in the direction they want it to go.
When dealing with anti democratic parties, and individuals, one has to work on the basis, they will use any undemocratic tactic they can, to steer a vote in the direction they want it to go.
Anyone who tries to proceed in an entirely democratic way, will therefore be disadvantaged when competing with those, who see no problem in cheating, or breaking democratic rules to get the result they want.
It could be that the antics of the anti democrats, have reduced the UK to the level of a banana republic, which like other banana republics, has to call in the services of outside observers to over see the conduct of any further (probably pointless) votes held in the UK.
The anti democrats have, and will have a lot to answer for in the coming years, interesting times lay ahead, and they may not be very nice.

The old threat of something 'not very nice' and a sinister note to end another piece of blinding prose, all those Remainers will be quaking in their ditches. I think you should change your name to 'CommaMan'.

[FiF]

Nickgnome said:

p1stonhead said:

Saw a comment on twitter which I found quite relevant. MP’s have each been paid £250k since brexit and are now only being asked to read 120 pages in 4 days.

It’s hardly beyond them is it. Meaningful scrutiny doesn’t need to take months on 120 pages.

You could start by reading it and trying to understand every clause. Then come back and comment.

That's essentially why I have not commented and might be gone for quite some time. /Captain Oates

See you folks next volume, here's hoping it's not just another session of swimming around in a cesspool. Some hope.

[Ridgemont]

Nickgnome said:

p1stonhead said:

Saw a comment on twitter which I found quite relevant. MP’s have each been paid £250k since brexit and are now only being asked to read 120 pages in 4 days.

It’s hardly beyond them is it. Meaningful scrutiny doesn’t need to take months on 120 pages.

You could start by reading it and trying to understand every clause. Then come back and comment.

Yeah. Having started piling through it, the issue isn’t that it’s 120 pages. The Lion, the Witch and the wardrobe is a similar length. The issue is that it’s 120 pages of amendments to the earlier agreement. Messy. I suspect even with 6 months asking a full team of lawyers to fully comprehend its impact will be a cottage industry in itself. That said MPs have form in passing legislation that they haven’t fully read or understood..

[JagLover]

Mrr T said:

So forget the Labour Party who will just try to block it, it still needed careful consideration with BJ still suggesting no deal is possible at the end of the TP.

You above all are well aware of the proper meaning of the term "no deal" as you spent months telling us that, among other things, flights with Europe would stop if we left on a "no deal" basis.

"No deal" means leaving without an agreed WA, it does not mean reverting to trading on WTO terms at the end of a transition period.

Amazingly how quickly Remainers, and their media mouthpieces, started changing the terminology the instant a WA was agreed.

[anonymous-user]

p1stonhead said:

Saw a comment on twitter which I found quite relevant. MP’s have each been paid £250k since brexit and are now only being asked to read 120 pages in 4 days.

It’s hardly beyond them is it. Meaningful scrutiny doesn’t need to take months on 120 pages.

Most of them are too thick to understand it.

[Nickgnome]

amusingduck said:

I've seen you launch into a condescending tirade about the sort of person who watches daytime TV based on nothing more than the knowledge that the poster had seen TV during the daytime on that particular day. If memory serves, the poster was WFH, or had a medical appointment.

Yet now you say that p1stonhead must read and understand every clause before being able to post an opinion. Why is the threshold so much higher for p1stonhead being able to voice his opinion than it is for you to cast judgement on people's lifestyles - especially their parenting ability?

Pretty impressive that a poster can comment on a document they never read.

Is it a positive life skill?

[p1stonhead]

Nickgnome said:

amusingduck said:

I've seen you launch into a condescending tirade about the sort of person who watches daytime TV based on nothing more than the knowledge that the poster had seen TV during the daytime on that particular day. If memory serves, the poster was WFH, or had a medical appointment.

Yet now you say that p1stonhead must read and understand every clause before being able to post an opinion. Why is the threshold so much higher for p1stonhead being able to voice his opinion than it is for you to cast judgement on people's lifestyles - especially their parenting ability?

Pretty impressive that a poster can comment on a document they never read.

Is it a positive life skill?

You really are a wker to leavers and remainers alike aren’t you.

[crankedup]

JNW1 said:

Nickgnome said:

Have you read both in detail then, or just making a layman’s uninformed judgement?

I’ll be impressed if you’ve studied the Bill in detail as it was only published last evening.

There are a few city legal firms that could benefit from your skill set.

I get the point about there's potentially not much time to analyse quite a lot of information. However, we're being told continually that in excess of 80% of the new WA is actually exactly the same as Theresa May's original; therefore, on the basis MP's had ample time to scrutinise that, don't they just need to look at what's changed rather than trawl through the detail of the whole thing all over again? That being case it cuts down the work and time needed quite considerably....

Maybe it would have been helpful for the HoC if the new bits had been crayoned in red

[anonymous-user]

Pan Pan Pan said:

We have seen, that in both parliament, and the country, there are those who do not respect democracy, and want to ignore the result of a democratic vote.
I am not clear how another referendum will help the situation, because if the vote again goes the way of leave, the same anti democratic individuals will try to over turn that vote as well.
What would be the point in having any further general elections, or referenda, in the UK when those that don't get the result `they' wanted will either just ignore, or overturn the vote result, or worse still, try to gerrymander the vote in the direction they want it to go.
When dealing with anti democratic parties, and individuals, one has to work on the basis, they will use any undemocratic tactic they can, to steer a vote in the direction they want it to go.
Anyone who tries to proceed in an entirely democratic way, will therefore be disadvantaged when competing with those, who see no problem in cheating, or breaking democratic rules to get the result they want.
It could be that the antics of the anti democrats, have reduced the UK to the level of a banana republic, which like other banana republics, has to call in the services of outside observers to over see the conduct of any further (probably pointless) votes held in the UK.
The anti democrats have, and will have a lot to answer for in the coming years, interesting times lay ahead, and they may not be very nice.

What boundary changes are you anticipating that will enable people to get "the vote in the direction they want it to go"?

[Camoradi]

Ridgemont said:

Nickgnome said:

p1stonhead said:

Saw a comment on twitter which I found quite relevant. MP’s have each been paid £250k since brexit and are now only being asked to read 120 pages in 4 days.

It’s hardly beyond them is it. Meaningful scrutiny doesn’t need to take months on 120 pages.

You could start by reading it and trying to understand every clause. Then come back and comment.

Yeah. Having started piling through it, the issue isn’t that it’s 120 pages. The Lion, the Witch and the wardrobe is a similar length. The issue is that it’s 120 pages of amendments to the earlier agreement. Messy. I suspect even with 6 months asking a full team of lawyers to fully comprehend its impact will be a cottage industry in itself. That said MPs have form in passing legislation that they haven’t fully read or understood..

Exactly. I doubt 90% of MPs have the legal knowledge to understand it anyway. I doubt I would understand it. Isn't there a lady with the title Shadow Attorney General? The others can fetch her coffee

They should stop the self aggrandisement and admit their limitations. Heaven knows they are obvious to the rest of us.

[amusingduck]

Nickgnome said:

amusingduck said:

I've seen you launch into a condescending tirade about the sort of person who watches daytime TV based on nothing more than the knowledge that the poster had seen TV during the daytime on that particular day. If memory serves, the poster was WFH, or had a medical appointment.

Yet now you say that p1stonhead must read and understand every clause before being able to post an opinion. Why is the threshold so much higher for p1stonhead being able to voice his opinion than it is for you to cast judgement on people's lifestyles - especially their parenting ability?

Pretty impressive that a poster can comment on a document parenting ability for someone they never read met.

Is it a positive life skill?

You really can't see it, can you?

[Smiler.]

p1stonhead said:

Nickgnome said:

amusingduck said:

I've seen you launch into a condescending tirade about the sort of person who watches daytime TV based on nothing more than the knowledge that the poster had seen TV during the daytime on that particular day. If memory serves, the poster was WFH, or had a medical appointment.

Yet now you say that p1stonhead must read and understand every clause before being able to post an opinion. Why is the threshold so much higher for p1stonhead being able to voice his opinion than it is for you to cast judgement on people's lifestyles - especially their parenting ability?

Pretty impressive that a poster can comment on a document they never read.

Is it a positive life skill?

You really are a wker to leavers and remainers alike aren’t you.

Finally.

Dear Mods, can you arrange some "extra" retirement for the Toxic Gnome?

[FiF]

Ridgemont said:

Nickgnome said:

p1stonhead said:

Saw a comment on twitter which I found quite relevant. MP’s have each been paid £250k since brexit and are now only being asked to read 120 pages in 4 days.

It’s hardly beyond them is it. Meaningful scrutiny doesn’t need to take months on 120 pages.

You could start by reading it and trying to understand every clause. Then come back and comment.

Yeah. Having started piling through it, the issue isn’t that it’s 120 pages. The Lion, the Witch and the wardrobe is a similar length. The issue is that it’s 120 pages of amendments to the earlier agreement. Messy. I suspect even with 6 months asking a full team of lawyers to fully comprehend its impact will be a cottage industry in itself. That said MPs have form in passing legislation that they haven’t fully read or understood..

The part in bold font, yep that's it. The only way I can do it sensibly is to have it all on a two display unit machine, or on a large landscape format screen possibly, with both documents open alongside. Anyone claiming to be able to skim through it, pfft.

[anonymous-user]

crankedup said:

Maybe it would have been helpful for the HoC if the new bits had been crayoned in red

Its all new to them.

What they have received is the UK legislation bill that implements the WA, something that hasn't been released until last night. They are not scrutinising the WA treaty itself, this is the legal stuff that usually comes after the WA treaty is passed.

So what we have here is an arse about face situation, where instead of them writing and if necessary amending the WA bill to make sure UK law matches the new treaty, they are looking at ways to change the content of the treaty itself, before it is then passed.

This is a massive change in how government works, and will most likely lead to the government pulling the vote on the WA itself, if the opposition manage to get their wrecking amendments into this bill.

[SpeckledJim]

Smiler. said:

p1stonhead said:

Nickgnome said:

amusingduck said:

I've seen you launch into a condescending tirade about the sort of person who watches daytime TV based on nothing more than the knowledge that the poster had seen TV during the daytime on that particular day. If memory serves, the poster was WFH, or had a medical appointment.

Yet now you say that p1stonhead must read and understand every clause before being able to post an opinion. Why is the threshold so much higher for p1stonhead being able to voice his opinion than it is for you to cast judgement on people's lifestyles - especially their parenting ability?

Pretty impressive that a poster can comment on a document they never read.

Is it a positive life skill?

You really are a wker to leavers and remainers alike aren’t you.

Finally.

Dear Mods, can you arrange some "extra" retirement for the Toxic Gnome?

Or at least draft stongle in again for 10 minutes comprehensive gnome-dismantling, so that he goes away for another few days, before forgetting how silly he looked last time and comes back.

[stongle]

SpeckledJim said:

Or at least draft stongle in again for 10 minutes comprehensive gnome-dismantling, so that he goes away for another few days, before forgetting how silly he looked last time and comes back.

I'm reading the bill.....