45th President of the United States, Donald Trump. Vol 3
Discussion
Funkycoldribena said:
rscott said:
I guess it depends where in the US the people are from and what their business interests are.
I've just come back from Atlanta & Vegas (working, sadly) and people either thought he was doing a poor job or in several cases just said things along the lines of "We're sorry - please don't mention him".
These were all professionals, working either in IT security or logistics management systems. They're not seeing an upturn in rail shipments - something they have seen previously when the economy has been on a upward path.
Bit like remainers only finding remainers then?I've just come back from Atlanta & Vegas (working, sadly) and people either thought he was doing a poor job or in several cases just said things along the lines of "We're sorry - please don't mention him".
These were all professionals, working either in IT security or logistics management systems. They're not seeing an upturn in rail shipments - something they have seen previously when the economy has been on a upward path.
Funny how these things work.
Whether those people would vote for Trump again, depends, I think. Many of them voted for him because he was the Republican candidate (particularly in The South), many voted because Clinton was unpalatable. Who they vote for at the next election in those instances depends on two main points, I suspect:
1. The alternative
2. The state of the economy
More and more, I get the nasty feeling that Trump will get away with all of his (increasingly obvious) poor behaviour and probable criminal activity. If there's a recession though (and odds are there will be before the next election), I think it would sink him.
That said, the news cycle is occurring at such an insane speed these days, pretty much anything is possible between then and now.
Tallow said:
Funkycoldribena said:
rscott said:
I guess it depends where in the US the people are from and what their business interests are.
I've just come back from Atlanta & Vegas (working, sadly) and people either thought he was doing a poor job or in several cases just said things along the lines of "We're sorry - please don't mention him".
These were all professionals, working either in IT security or logistics management systems. They're not seeing an upturn in rail shipments - something they have seen previously when the economy has been on a upward path.
Bit like remainers only finding remainers then?I've just come back from Atlanta & Vegas (working, sadly) and people either thought he was doing a poor job or in several cases just said things along the lines of "We're sorry - please don't mention him".
These were all professionals, working either in IT security or logistics management systems. They're not seeing an upturn in rail shipments - something they have seen previously when the economy has been on a upward path.
Funny how these things work.
Whether those people would vote for Trump again, depends, I think. Many of them voted for him because he was the Republican candidate (particularly in The South), many voted because Clinton was unpalatable. Who they vote for at the next election in those instances depends on two main points, I suspect:
1. The alternative
2. The state of the economy
More and more, I get the nasty feeling that Trump will get away with all of his (increasingly obvious) poor behaviour and probable criminal activity. If there's a recession though (and odds are there will be before the next election), I think it would sink him.
That said, the news cycle is occurring at such an insane speed these days, pretty much anything is possible between then and now.
Those who had voted for him all agree he's been a complete disappointment - mainly because it appears to them that he simply doesn't understand the job and isn't capable of doing it, at least on the evidence so far.
The general feeling was that there needs to be another alternative Democrat candidate found, and quickly. Some who are very concerned by Trump are nervous about supporting action against him as there doesn't seem to be much of an alternative.
rscott said:
A few of those in Atlanta said they voted for him simply because he wasn't Clinton (not because they liked his policies). Others voted for Clinton because she wasn't Trump... Most agreed the choices at the election were pretty poor.
Those who had voted for him all agree he's been a complete disappointment - mainly because it appears to them that he simply doesn't understand the job and isn't capable of doing it, at least on the evidence so far.
The general feeling was that there needs to be another alternative Democrat candidate found, and quickly. Some who are very concerned by Trump are nervous about supporting action against him as there doesn't seem to be much of an alternative.
For sure it goes both ways, but more than anything I think there's a profound feeling of discomfort discussing it in general, I have found. I've not encountered too many rampant openly pro-Trumpers, but they certainly exist. Atlanta is also a bit of an anomaly in as much as it's a blue city in a red state and broadly red part of the country. It doesn't take a long drive in any direction for the picture to change. Those who had voted for him all agree he's been a complete disappointment - mainly because it appears to them that he simply doesn't understand the job and isn't capable of doing it, at least on the evidence so far.
The general feeling was that there needs to be another alternative Democrat candidate found, and quickly. Some who are very concerned by Trump are nervous about supporting action against him as there doesn't seem to be much of an alternative.
Of course this is compounded by the redistricting that is continually going on. And as John Oliver pointed out in his excellent piece on gerrymandering, left leaning voters tend to be clustered together in urban areas with right wing voters more diffusely spread. The implications for this are obviously suboptimal for voter impact.
As an aside in terms of data points, I find that people will only raise the issue of Trump with me, a European, if they dislike him. They either know it's a safe bet that they can freely talk about their distaste for him or they're curious to hear about how he is viewed overseas.
tl;dr: Yes, there's plenty of people with buyers remorse, but don't underestimate how many people still support him, are ambivalent, or would STILL view him as the lesser or two evils if confronted with a tough election choice (from their perspective).
Edited by Tallow on Monday 12th February 19:58
rscott said:
A few of those in Atlanta said they voted for him simply because he wasn't Clinton (not because they liked his policies). Others voted for Clinton because she wasn't Trump... Most agreed the choices at the election were pretty poor.
Those who had voted for him all agree he's been a complete disappointment - mainly because it appears to them that he simply doesn't understand the job and isn't capable of doing it, at least on the evidence so far.
The general feeling was that there needs to be another alternative Democrat candidate found, and quickly. Some who are very concerned by Trump are nervous about supporting action against him as there doesn't seem to be much of an alternative.
All? I think that you're kidding yourself with that one, with all due respect.Those who had voted for him all agree he's been a complete disappointment - mainly because it appears to them that he simply doesn't understand the job and isn't capable of doing it, at least on the evidence so far.
The general feeling was that there needs to be another alternative Democrat candidate found, and quickly. Some who are very concerned by Trump are nervous about supporting action against him as there doesn't seem to be much of an alternative.
FN2TypeR said:
rscott said:
A few of those in Atlanta said they voted for him simply because he wasn't Clinton (not because they liked his policies). Others voted for Clinton because she wasn't Trump... Most agreed the choices at the election were pretty poor.
Those who had voted for him all agree he's been a complete disappointment - mainly because it appears to them that he simply doesn't understand the job and isn't capable of doing it, at least on the evidence so far.
The general feeling was that there needs to be another alternative Democrat candidate found, and quickly. Some who are very concerned by Trump are nervous about supporting action against him as there doesn't seem to be much of an alternative.
All? I think that you're kidding yourself with that one, with all due respect.Those who had voted for him all agree he's been a complete disappointment - mainly because it appears to them that he simply doesn't understand the job and isn't capable of doing it, at least on the evidence so far.
The general feeling was that there needs to be another alternative Democrat candidate found, and quickly. Some who are very concerned by Trump are nervous about supporting action against him as there doesn't seem to be much of an alternative.
As has been mentioned, Atlanta is a bit of a curious place politically, let alone when you explore outside the city.
Interesting FOIA request regarding Comey's firing and how the FBI rank and file felt about it.
https://www.lawfareblog.com/i-hope-instance-fake-n...
SPOILER: The White House lied about it
https://www.lawfareblog.com/i-hope-instance-fake-n...
SPOILER: The White House lied about it
Halb said:
He is still massively (religiously) popular in the rurals
Hence is budget it would seem.https://www.politico.com/story/2018/02/12/trump-in...
Infrastructure in the budget seems aimed at them.
Sessions yesterday said “The office of sheriff is a critical part of the Anglo-American heritage of law enforcement.”
Seems a strange way to change from the prepared speech
http://archive.is/MhTRq#selection-1523.1-1523.197
Seems a strange way to change from the prepared speech
http://archive.is/MhTRq#selection-1523.1-1523.197
ScudNorth said:
Interesting FOIA request regarding Comey's firing and how the FBI rank and file felt about it.
https://www.lawfareblog.com/i-hope-instance-fake-n...
SPOILER: The White House lied about it
That lie is past its sell by date now. We are one to brand spanking new fibs. Seems to be the MO, spread salacious lies and get your way.https://www.lawfareblog.com/i-hope-instance-fake-n...
SPOILER: The White House lied about it
Remember I said Nunes needed money as he's seen how much legal bills have been for others involved in the Russia investigation. He hasn't the GOP paying his fees like they did for Trump and his sons.
Seems Oracle are pushing money his way, after Cohen-Watnick joined them, too much money so some had to be returned under the law.
https://www.thedailybeast.com/the-silicon-valley-g...
Seems Oracle are pushing money his way, after Cohen-Watnick joined them, too much money so some had to be returned under the law.
https://www.thedailybeast.com/the-silicon-valley-g...
Byker28i said:
Lets take these points one by one:
Lower unemployment - only amongst white, black unemployment is rising. Unemployment as a whole is dropping though although at a slower rate than before.
Budget surplus - nope - There was a $182bn budget surplus in Apriil as cororate taxes were paid before year end, but by Oct that was a $666bn deficit. Trumps tax changes for the rich will do nothing to change this, only increase the deficit.
GDP growth - 2.3% instead of the expected 2.6% growth but close enough, driven by consumers, which is why savings was at the lowest levels for the last 70 years and credit card debt grew by 6%. Remember when the US spent more than they could afford - sept 2008...
Consumer confidence - As above - driven by credit card debt and no savings, buy buy buy...
Deregulation - you say that like it's a good thing...
Asia Trade deals - withdrawal from you mean, leaving a vacuum for China etc to fill?
National Security - what exactly? Refusal to sign sanctions, threatening North Korea, possible illegal air strikes, russian collusion and coverup?
His $1.5Trillion infrastructure budget he was talking up is actually $200bn over several years, with private enterprise expected to make up the rest, so consumers will be paying to use that infrastructure IF they can find someone willing to spend the money.
So you could see that on toll bridges, toll roads, but not on real improvements like clean drinking water. Not just Flint, but the US have over 75million people living in places where the water systems were in some violation of safety regulations, including the 1974 Safe Drinking Water Act.
Still Trump deregulated the coal indusrty, allowing them to dump and pollute rivers...
Well this sort of only states that you (I'm guessing, as a Brit), see things differently from the Americans who live it day by day.Lower unemployment - only amongst white, black unemployment is rising. Unemployment as a whole is dropping though although at a slower rate than before.
Budget surplus - nope - There was a $182bn budget surplus in Apriil as cororate taxes were paid before year end, but by Oct that was a $666bn deficit. Trumps tax changes for the rich will do nothing to change this, only increase the deficit.
GDP growth - 2.3% instead of the expected 2.6% growth but close enough, driven by consumers, which is why savings was at the lowest levels for the last 70 years and credit card debt grew by 6%. Remember when the US spent more than they could afford - sept 2008...
Consumer confidence - As above - driven by credit card debt and no savings, buy buy buy...
Deregulation - you say that like it's a good thing...
Asia Trade deals - withdrawal from you mean, leaving a vacuum for China etc to fill?
National Security - what exactly? Refusal to sign sanctions, threatening North Korea, possible illegal air strikes, russian collusion and coverup?
His $1.5Trillion infrastructure budget he was talking up is actually $200bn over several years, with private enterprise expected to make up the rest, so consumers will be paying to use that infrastructure IF they can find someone willing to spend the money.
So you could see that on toll bridges, toll roads, but not on real improvements like clean drinking water. Not just Flint, but the US have over 75million people living in places where the water systems were in some violation of safety regulations, including the 1974 Safe Drinking Water Act.
Still Trump deregulated the coal indusrty, allowing them to dump and pollute rivers...
Edited by Byker28i on Monday 12th February 16:46
I'm not going to say you are wrong, because your opinion is your opinion. But I think its good to accept the opinions of Americans who are more qualified to speak on the presidency than we are (in many respects) - as its their democracy, their culture and their future etc.
The guys I've been speaking to are in connection to the business that we run here in the UK (which is IT, analytical and civil engineering based).
Plenty of ethnicity involved in their side of the business, they are also in the process of hiring more staff as their business grows.
On another topic they see the 'crackdown' on national security as a good thing, and something long overdue.
I could go on but like I say, us Brits probably have viewpoints purely created by the media - which are blatantly anti-Trump no matter which subject is being covered.
Americans don't like their own government. Apart from times of war, their own government is looked on as their biggest enemy. Trump has effectively declared war on the US State. Many Americans like that (the old revolutionary spirit is still alive and well).
We have a "European" state of mind. So we tend to look to the mechanisms of state to help us out - or at least top blame - when things go wrong in our lives.
How often do we here the cry "What's the government going to do about it".
In America, the cry is more likely to be "Keep the government out of my life".
We have a "European" state of mind. So we tend to look to the mechanisms of state to help us out - or at least top blame - when things go wrong in our lives.
How often do we here the cry "What's the government going to do about it".
In America, the cry is more likely to be "Keep the government out of my life".
Very much a US thing, but it is an interesting topic.
The absolute partisan approach at the moment is glaring for me.
A good few years ago there was a program on the pop up clinics in the US. It reported an estimated 50 million people without access to good health care. They interviewed some business man in his ranch house in some stunning setting, his attitude was his money was his and why should he fund someone else health care, it was their fault that they had not done enough in the lives like he had.
At the moment the GOP appear to be that person and the direction they are taking to ignore all to retain power.
And the mid terms are coming, would not like to goes which way they will go. Never underestimate the X in the box.
Atomic12C said:
Well this sort of only states that you (I'm guessing, as a Brit), see things differently from the Americans who live it day by day.
I was speaking as a ex regular traveller to the US, with friends in various states. Haven't been for the last year, it's not attractive as a destination currently. Depends on which bit you travel through and who you speak to. There are many now that won't discuss politics, the fanatical trump supporters still are.Always happy to discuss any of the points, there's a lack of discussion usually. Care to expand on the points I got wrong in your opinion?
Eric Mc said:
How often do we here the cry "What's the government going to do about it".
We hear that everyday don't we?Every single problem in the UK these days is never the fault of the individual, instead its always the fault of the government. That is what the TV/tabloid media drill in to us on nearly every story.
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