Lance Armstrong on Opera - outcome???
Discussion
I am guessing he will be so very very sorry, apologetic, insist he is clean now. Explain the "incredible pressue" he was under to cheat. That everyone did it, his coach made him - some tears when he talks about his family etc - staged, scripted and packaged as the re launch of a fallen idol.
Wants to move on in his life etc.
deeply cynical move, he should be explaining himself to the governing bodies and actually apologising to his fellow competitors - you know the ones he accused of lying about him and defaming him all these years.
I am also imagining there will be an underlying streak of defiance, an self preservation mechanism where he cannot total admit he has done the wrong thing, even now. He needed that all his life to date, I don't think you can totally walk away from it in one interview.
Wants to move on in his life etc.
deeply cynical move, he should be explaining himself to the governing bodies and actually apologising to his fellow competitors - you know the ones he accused of lying about him and defaming him all these years.
I am also imagining there will be an underlying streak of defiance, an self preservation mechanism where he cannot total admit he has done the wrong thing, even now. He needed that all his life to date, I don't think you can totally walk away from it in one interview.
Gargamel said:
I am guessing he will be so very very sorry, apologetic, insist he is clean now. Explain the "incredible pressue" he was under to cheat. That everyone did it, his coach made him - some tears when he talks about his family etc - staged, scripted and packaged as the re launch of a fallen idol.
Wants to move on in his life etc.
deeply cynical move, he should be explaining himself to the governing bodies and actually apologising to his fellow competitors - you know the ones he accused of lying about him and defaming him all these years.
I am also imagining there will be an underlying streak of defiance, an self preservation mechanism where he cannot total admit he has done the wrong thing, even now. He needed that all his life to date, I don't think you can totally walk away from it in one interview.
I thought he has stated under oath that he has never cheated so can't admit to it now.Wants to move on in his life etc.
deeply cynical move, he should be explaining himself to the governing bodies and actually apologising to his fellow competitors - you know the ones he accused of lying about him and defaming him all these years.
I am also imagining there will be an underlying streak of defiance, an self preservation mechanism where he cannot total admit he has done the wrong thing, even now. He needed that all his life to date, I don't think you can totally walk away from it in one interview.
IF he did it - never tested +ive and his in wealthy team mates not all mind have jumped on the band wagon and released books making them a fair bit of cars.
Then firstly the testing regime is hugely to blame in allowing notification pre a test, secondly as in the 7 years he won the top 5 all have tested +ive (except 1 in 2000 I think) and of course himself. So even IF he did then he did really play a level playing field and beat others on the same drugs.
Lets also not forget he has been able to raise an enormous amount of money for the cancer charity helping tens of thousands of individuals suffering and making awareness of the illness. Now had he not been unfortunate enough to have cancer would he have pushed charity? Who knows.
To me the racing maybe he did but without question his charity work should be utterly admired and his racing well he beat other cheaters.
What I've seen on blogs etc is frankly on the same level of hatred as Saville!!! How can that be the case ? Even if he did drugs lied about it and sued others to claim he didn't to me I don't consider that to be on the same level as child abuse and pedopholia or abuse of abused and damaged children.
Just my 2p.
Whatever happens re the drugs he will certainly be remembered as a legend an icon and life saver - rightly so.
Then firstly the testing regime is hugely to blame in allowing notification pre a test, secondly as in the 7 years he won the top 5 all have tested +ive (except 1 in 2000 I think) and of course himself. So even IF he did then he did really play a level playing field and beat others on the same drugs.
Lets also not forget he has been able to raise an enormous amount of money for the cancer charity helping tens of thousands of individuals suffering and making awareness of the illness. Now had he not been unfortunate enough to have cancer would he have pushed charity? Who knows.
To me the racing maybe he did but without question his charity work should be utterly admired and his racing well he beat other cheaters.
What I've seen on blogs etc is frankly on the same level of hatred as Saville!!! How can that be the case ? Even if he did drugs lied about it and sued others to claim he didn't to me I don't consider that to be on the same level as child abuse and pedopholia or abuse of abused and damaged children.
Just my 2p.
Whatever happens re the drugs he will certainly be remembered as a legend an icon and life saver - rightly so.
Welshbeef, you're not stupid, but that post makes you look hideously uninformed. Worth reading the big thread linked higher up.
To summarise some of the key errors:
No he didn't test positive, as there wasn't a test for EPO at the time. When there was a test, some of his samples were retrospectively tested and full of the stuff. The UCI (who he'd given substantial amounts of money to) decided that the retrospective tests were for scientific purposes only and so inadmissible. Funny that.
Upon his return, he was given dispensation by the UCI to avoid the 6 months worth of blood passport data prior to competition - the blood passport being the only way to detect the doping de jour of blood doping - taking your own blood prior to the event and reintroducing it during to boost endurance.
There were also covered up positives in the Tour de Suisse.
As for level playing field as they were all at it - far from the case. Red blood cell efficency is key as well as proportion within total blood volume. You can be a world class athlete with high volume of low efficiency cells, or low volume of high efficiency cells (plus of course the combinations in between). Lance had a particularly low haematocrit level, partly due to his treatment for cancer. So they would be highly efficient at transporting oxygen compared to most people performing at the same level.
Hence, when topped up through EPO/transfusion to the arbitrary 50% 'safety' limit enforced in the absence of a proper EPO test, he would experience a significantly higher benefit in performance than your typical cyclist. He was able to increase his haematocrit level more than any of his peers, and his haematocrit was more efficient. A double whammy.
As for his work for cancer. Well its obvious he did a lot of talking about cancer, but then, pretty much everyone is aware of cancer. However, the blurred lines between Livestrong.org and Livestrong.org, added to the fact that Livestrong was never about finding treatments for cancer, or supporting cancer victims, means as charities go it doesn't seem to be the most altruistic...
That's a quick 5 minute type to try to refute some of the consistent misinformation and misguided opinions regarding Lance. There's reams and reams more out there, fully backed up with exceptional evidence, rather than negative arguments such as 'never failed a test'.
It's also worth pointing out one of his key arguments 'I'm the most tested athlete in history yet didn't fail a test' is bolleaux on both counts - the covered up failures I've mentioned, but not only that, he's not even the most tested Armstrong on USADAs books! That goes to a female triathlete of no relation...
The misinformation machine he built around him has got to be one of the best non wartime propaganda efforts ever.
To summarise some of the key errors:
No he didn't test positive, as there wasn't a test for EPO at the time. When there was a test, some of his samples were retrospectively tested and full of the stuff. The UCI (who he'd given substantial amounts of money to) decided that the retrospective tests were for scientific purposes only and so inadmissible. Funny that.
Upon his return, he was given dispensation by the UCI to avoid the 6 months worth of blood passport data prior to competition - the blood passport being the only way to detect the doping de jour of blood doping - taking your own blood prior to the event and reintroducing it during to boost endurance.
There were also covered up positives in the Tour de Suisse.
As for level playing field as they were all at it - far from the case. Red blood cell efficency is key as well as proportion within total blood volume. You can be a world class athlete with high volume of low efficiency cells, or low volume of high efficiency cells (plus of course the combinations in between). Lance had a particularly low haematocrit level, partly due to his treatment for cancer. So they would be highly efficient at transporting oxygen compared to most people performing at the same level.
Hence, when topped up through EPO/transfusion to the arbitrary 50% 'safety' limit enforced in the absence of a proper EPO test, he would experience a significantly higher benefit in performance than your typical cyclist. He was able to increase his haematocrit level more than any of his peers, and his haematocrit was more efficient. A double whammy.
As for his work for cancer. Well its obvious he did a lot of talking about cancer, but then, pretty much everyone is aware of cancer. However, the blurred lines between Livestrong.org and Livestrong.org, added to the fact that Livestrong was never about finding treatments for cancer, or supporting cancer victims, means as charities go it doesn't seem to be the most altruistic...
That's a quick 5 minute type to try to refute some of the consistent misinformation and misguided opinions regarding Lance. There's reams and reams more out there, fully backed up with exceptional evidence, rather than negative arguments such as 'never failed a test'.
It's also worth pointing out one of his key arguments 'I'm the most tested athlete in history yet didn't fail a test' is bolleaux on both counts - the covered up failures I've mentioned, but not only that, he's not even the most tested Armstrong on USADAs books! That goes to a female triathlete of no relation...
The misinformation machine he built around him has got to be one of the best non wartime propaganda efforts ever.
Oh, and on the abuse thing, he had no issue in destroying the lives of young riders getting into the sport, destroyed a previous American Tour winner's business, conspired with the authorities and the rest of the peloton to reinforce the policy of omerta regarding doping, was vicious in using his wealth, contacts and power to discredit anyone who came close to blowing the whistle etc.
He came in at a period where there was a real possibility of a cleanup within cycling following the Festina affair.
Instead, because he had such a great improvement through doping with the complicity of the governing body, he guaranteed that the culture remained for another ten years. Those who love the sport hate him for doing that.
Including me.
I worked at a Trek dealer as a teenager, and the year of his first win spent all my Saturday boy earnings on a USPS carbon framed Trek, full replica kit, the lot. Only to look like a f
king mug.
Now apply that to those cancer victims who believed he'd beaten cancer and won the Tour through hard work and determination. Despicable.
He came in at a period where there was a real possibility of a cleanup within cycling following the Festina affair.
Instead, because he had such a great improvement through doping with the complicity of the governing body, he guaranteed that the culture remained for another ten years. Those who love the sport hate him for doing that.
Including me.
I worked at a Trek dealer as a teenager, and the year of his first win spent all my Saturday boy earnings on a USPS carbon framed Trek, full replica kit, the lot. Only to look like a f
king mug. Now apply that to those cancer victims who believed he'd beaten cancer and won the Tour through hard work and determination. Despicable.
hornetrider said:
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