Fake Will Fraud
Discussion
Interesting BBC investigation into this little-known lucrative fraud.
I suspect, now that this has hit the mainstream media, we will see increased cases of this happening.
The powers that be, really need to get ahead of this.
EDIT: Here is the link to the Dark Money Podcast featuring this story.
I suspect, now that this has hit the mainstream media, we will see increased cases of this happening.
The powers that be, really need to get ahead of this.
EDIT: Here is the link to the Dark Money Podcast featuring this story.
Edited by SpeedBash on Friday 11th July 02:03
I'm fairly certain this happened to my wife's aunt, who didn't have any children
After she died and apparently with no will, a will surfaced with one of the nephews and a friend as the main beneficiary. They said it had been drawn up by solicitors, yet it was clearly a download and fill in DIY job, and the witness was a relative of the friend!
Very suspect!
After she died and apparently with no will, a will surfaced with one of the nephews and a friend as the main beneficiary. They said it had been drawn up by solicitors, yet it was clearly a download and fill in DIY job, and the witness was a relative of the friend!
Very suspect!
It really should be all online now - or at least have the option. Someone dies you have to locate the will and then be sure it's the latest version. It's painful and could easily be streamlined.
I did one years ago and the solicitor offered to keep it. Then they changed hands a few times and I have no idea where it is now. What hope have my relatives got?
I did one years ago and the solicitor offered to keep it. Then they changed hands a few times and I have no idea where it is now. What hope have my relatives got?
98elise said:
I'm fairly certain this happened to my wife's aunt, who didn't have any children
After she died and apparently with no will, a will surfaced with one of the nephews and a friend as the main beneficiary. They said it had been drawn up by solicitors, yet it was clearly a download and fill in DIY job, and the witness was a relative of the friend!
Very suspect!
What happened?After she died and apparently with no will, a will surfaced with one of the nephews and a friend as the main beneficiary. They said it had been drawn up by solicitors, yet it was clearly a download and fill in DIY job, and the witness was a relative of the friend!
Very suspect!
Was it contested?
Even if you have no close friends or relatives, or you do and don't give a toss about them, if you have any assets at all there are still plenty of causes that might be dear to you.
Those causes will also fund a properly written will. I don't get why anyone wouldn't have one. It's not as if death comes a surprise.
Those causes will also fund a properly written will. I don't get why anyone wouldn't have one. It's not as if death comes a surprise.
Wait for Bona Vacantia list to be published
Front up gullible foreigner as the claimant (or maybe even a fake one)
Tell hmrc the property is worth less than 325k
stick the property into your gullible/fake forigners names who also happens to be the director of a limited co
rent out property and launder cash through the limited company (never sell because that might alert HMRC).
Did I get that right?
From the governments website I think a fairly simple check around the person claiming on an estate that is bona vicantia HAS to be blood related to the claimaint otherwise they need to go to court to prove their connection is valid. It would stop most of the spurious claims that the article mentions. The governments website claims as much, that you need to be related but then doesn't say what happens if you are not.
Front up gullible foreigner as the claimant (or maybe even a fake one)
Tell hmrc the property is worth less than 325k
stick the property into your gullible/fake forigners names who also happens to be the director of a limited co
rent out property and launder cash through the limited company (never sell because that might alert HMRC).
Did I get that right?
From the governments website I think a fairly simple check around the person claiming on an estate that is bona vicantia HAS to be blood related to the claimaint otherwise they need to go to court to prove their connection is valid. It would stop most of the spurious claims that the article mentions. The governments website claims as much, that you need to be related but then doesn't say what happens if you are not.
bloomen said:
Even if you have no close friends or relatives, or you do and don't give a toss about them, if you have any assets at all there are still plenty of causes that might be dear to you.
Those causes will also fund a properly written will. I don't get why anyone wouldn't have one. It's not as if death comes a surprise.
That should work, but the other thing that's alleged is the Will gets disappeared and another is produced. Or if family are excluded they claim there's no Will and rely on the rules of intestacy.Those causes will also fund a properly written will. I don't get why anyone wouldn't have one. It's not as if death comes a surprise.
Slow.Patrol said:
I've thought for a while that the Will system is open to abuse.
I have shared a copy of my Will with all the beneficiaries. But it really needs a Government run depositary with thorough security. It should be easy to achieve.
It's pretty easy in other countries. My and Mrs B's wills are registered here:I have shared a copy of my Will with all the beneficiaries. But it really needs a Government run depositary with thorough security. It should be easy to achieve.
https://www.ztr.ch/en/portrait
The will system is very vulnerable to abuse. I've got a family solicitor, but for some reason I don't recall, we used a different firm for a will. So now there are two different wills floating around, and each held in a filing cabinet with no real way to verify authenticity, nor any way to know if there is a later version held elsewhere.
It wouldn't be popular i'm sure, but why can't HMRC/gov host a basic service whereby you either upload a (digitally signed) doc against your national insurance number, or, leave a note against your NI number/account indicating where your will resides - solicitor, bank, USB stick under the couch, etc. Similar to opt-out donor cards, the form could by default say something like "I like to leave all my moneys to HMRC" and that might prompt folks to take action
.
It wouldn't be popular i'm sure, but why can't HMRC/gov host a basic service whereby you either upload a (digitally signed) doc against your national insurance number, or, leave a note against your NI number/account indicating where your will resides - solicitor, bank, USB stick under the couch, etc. Similar to opt-out donor cards, the form could by default say something like "I like to leave all my moneys to HMRC" and that might prompt folks to take action
.bmwmike said:
The will system is very vulnerable to abuse. I've got a family solicitor, but for some reason I don't recall, we used a different firm for a will. So now there are two different wills floating around, and each held in a filing cabinet with no real way to verify authenticity, nor any way to know if there is a later version held elsewhere.
It wouldn't be popular i'm sure, but why can't HMRC/gov host a basic service whereby you either upload a (digitally signed) doc against your national insurance number, or, leave a note against your NI number/account indicating where your will resides - solicitor, bank, USB stick under the couch, etc. Similar to opt-out donor cards, the form could by default say something like "I like to leave all my moneys to HMRC" and that might prompt folks to take action.
Well, there is The National Will Register https://www.nationalwillregister.co.uk/ but it has the feeling of a bit of a scam to me.It wouldn't be popular i'm sure, but why can't HMRC/gov host a basic service whereby you either upload a (digitally signed) doc against your national insurance number, or, leave a note against your NI number/account indicating where your will resides - solicitor, bank, USB stick under the couch, etc. Similar to opt-out donor cards, the form could by default say something like "I like to leave all my moneys to HMRC" and that might prompt folks to take action
.Sheepshanks said:
Well, there is The National Will Register https://www.nationalwillregister.co.uk/ but it has the feeling of a bit of a scam to me.
Yeah. That site doesn't even render properly for me so no way is it getting £65 just to kick off a search. As i say, use NI record as a pointer to a location or store a file, easy. And should be free. Existing bereavements process at HMRC could locate it then after death cert provided.
XCP said:
98elise said:
I'm fairly certain this happened to my wife's aunt, who didn't have any children
After she died and apparently with no will, a will surfaced with one of the nephews and a friend as the main beneficiary. They said it had been drawn up by solicitors, yet it was clearly a download and fill in DIY job, and the witness was a relative of the friend!
Very suspect!
What happened?After she died and apparently with no will, a will surfaced with one of the nephews and a friend as the main beneficiary. They said it had been drawn up by solicitors, yet it was clearly a download and fill in DIY job, and the witness was a relative of the friend!
Very suspect!
Was it contested?
The nephew that benefited did send some cash to all the other relatives saying that the aunt had expressed a wish to give them some cash.
It was all highly suspicious as the story on the will changed regularly, and the house was cleared of paperwork etc very quickly. Even old photos were dumped without asking if any other family wanted them.
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