Is capitalism rubbish? A layman’s view...

[G_T]

After my initially disappointment at the extent of the hippies getting the st knocked out of them at the G20 summit I got to thinking. I’ve just got an estimate for the rust repair on the car and the painter has tried to rip me off massively assuming that I’m just another naive gobste. This is a half-truth and leads to me to wonder whether in a socialist paradise I wouldn’t have to deal with immoral men like this. There’s a fantastic quote from the popular channel four series Peep Show; “It's only through the miracle of consumer capitalism that you're not lying in your own st, dying at 43 with rotten teeth, and a little tablet with a picture of a chicken on it isn't going to change that. Now, come on. fk off.”

Now to explain the “miracle of capitalism” as I see it from the ground. I work for ~35 hours a week excluding travelling to clients who are then in turn billed approximately quadruple my salary per day. My director however, I estimate, “earns” roughly triple what I “earn”. The director comes in at 1030-1100hrs most days, often takes entire afternoons off and has little or no involvement in both marketing and company infrastructure. However my colleagues and I count our blessings everyday for being lucky enough to have the money to keep a roof over our heads. My situation is not an uncommon one in the UK. Now I ask you, is this the real miracle of capitalism?

“I’m not a socialist or communist but only because I’ve seen the failure of its implementation throughout history. I am fairly confident though, that there is some huge ethical void that wkers like my management live by. wkers who maintain authority simply by bullstting their way to the top whilst we proletariat can only hope to equal their social status by means of being total tossers ourselves. We also get the odious pleasure of assisting our ‘betters’ in filling their obvious moral vacuum with free time, tasteless cars and pushing up property prices with their ‘investments’ in multiple homes.”

But, despite my centre left political stance, I was not in protest with a stupid hat and poor personal hygiene earlier this week.

If I buy a loaf of bread from a bakery and then choose to sell it in my shop I will insist on increasing the price to cover both my overheads and my salary. Is this immoral?- Well that depends on what I decide to include in my overheads and what I think I’m worth doesn’t it?

If I then decide that my 60p loaf of bread is worth £2.50 because I want a Mercedes with bling alloys and red leather interior. The miracle of capitalism then occurs... People tell me that “I can shove my bread up my arse because they would rather go to elsewhere and pay less”. My shop closes because I’ve been a greedy bd and no one will come in anymore and someone else opens up in its place. Capitalism is, in essence, knowing you can tell someone to shove it up their arse and then go elsewhere.

Yes there are exceptions. Like these ahole banks that we will not allow to fail for numerous reasons. To coin my earlier analogy not only do they own the hypothetical bakery. They can produce the bread for fk all, they charge you £100 a loaf and the bread contains the only antidote to the poison you just drank. This manipulation of capitalism can be catastrophic but corrupt capitalism still historically trumps corrupt socialism. After all that’s why the regulatory bodies are supposed to be in place isn’t it?- Yes, like they’re not on the fking take.

So my abstract point is two-fold. Firstly yes, capitalism is on face, immoral as you can get more for doing less than your peers. Secondly and more importantly however it is largely self-regulating as it allows freedom of choice. This choice is not represented in socialist regimes and is the worse for it. If you don’t believe me I suggest you try to call your local council to negotiate your council tax bill... Then again if you’re out protesting capitalism you’re probably not paying it anyway, let alone reading this on a car forum.

Just curious how others felt about the issue.

-Peace.

[Don]

Competition and a free market is important to ensure that the individual is not ripped off. More important you need competition to drive innovation and efficiency.

Unfortunately you also need regulation to achieve a free market as otherwise monopolies tend to form.

In a Communist society you only need one supplier of anything as the State dictates the price. But you have the problem that you have to have other means to encourage and fund innovation.

[pikey]

"The problem with Socalism is you soon run out of other people's money"

(c) Maggie T

[Dr_Gonzo]

In a free market 'the market' decides how much a thing is worth, not the seller. The seller can try and sell it for more (because they want their bling merc) but they wont sell much, if any of their overpriced produce. Therefore, it's only a free market that keeps prices 'fair'.

[Tuna]

There is inequality in capitalism as some people game the system and take the p***.

Now what makes anyone think that a socialist economy is suddenly populated only by angels? Look at the corruption in Russia and China and there's your answer. Capitalism is no worse than socialism in that respect - and perhaps there's the advantage that under a capitalist system you know your bosses income and he doesn't have to bribe and corrupt his way through daily life to keep his business running.

[tinman0]

G_T said:

Now to explain the “miracle of capitalism” as I see it from the ground. I work for ~35 hours a week excluding travelling to clients who are then in turn billed approximately quadruple my salary per day. My director however, I estimate, “earns” roughly triple what I “earn”. The director comes in at 1030-1100hrs most days, often takes entire afternoons off and has little or no involvement in both marketing and company infrastructure. However my colleagues and I count our blessings everyday for being lucky enough to have the money to keep a roof over our heads. My situation is not an uncommon one in the UK. Now I ask you, is this the real miracle of capitalism?

Your salaried right?

You earn less than you bring in, because your company still has to pay another 10% of your salary in tax right from the start. They also have to pay for an office, they also have to pay for the overheads that keep you out and about. I imagine that your expenses get picked up - so they have to be paid for.

Then there is the risk that you have no work for a week or two. You will want your salary of course, even if you are doing nothing. That money has to come from somewhere.

The director(s) will probably still be working late and when required. I used to turn up to our office at 10am or later - reason being - I was working till midnight the previous day.

And when/if it all turns to st, you get a new job, whilst the directors and owners of the company pick up some rather large bills and face awkward questions.

Its called risk. You are taking none, they are taking it all.

Edited by tinman0 on Thursday 2nd April 16:54

[theaxe]

Lots of sensible posts in this thread.

Capitalism works within a framework of regulation to ensure that things are fair and meet the needs of the people (protecting the enviroment, looking after the disadvantaged etc).

If your boss gets paid more for doing less then you need to use the market to progress yourself. If your boss owns the company then if he slacks off he's the one taking the risk.

In the example of banks, this is a failure of regulation and is almost entirely the fault of the regulators, ie the government.

Clearly it's not a perfect system but I've yet to hear of anything better.

Edited by theaxe on Thursday 2nd April 16:59