2020 Retailers in trouble thread
Discussion
After the success of the 2019 thread, it is time to inflate it's revenue figures and sell it to a PE house, lumbering it with ridiculous management charges that will see it fold within not time at all...
Time to kick off the 2020 thread and here is a great link to a BBC article on 10 retailers that have gone forever...
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-50834387
Time to kick off the 2020 thread and here is a great link to a BBC article on 10 retailers that have gone forever...
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-50834387
Comstock said:
I think the internet grim reaper has already picked most of the low hanging fruit, and the next big round of closures won't come until the next recession (which is surely in the post).
Most of Derbys shopping real estate is either clothes retailers, which people like to browse IRL or stores like HMV and Currys who have seen all their competitors go under and are the last major bricks and mortar retailers in their sectors.
WH Smith's seem to defy gravity all these years, despite being (IMHO) neither cheap nor particularly good at what they do. Almost anything you can buy at Smith's can be brought either cheaper or with more choice elsewhere.
On WH Smiths, they are solid, constantly perform, staffed by people who care about the company as the company is quite respectful towards the staff (For example the head office in Swindon has 50, yes 50 mental health first aiders... yes it sounds a bit snowflake but I bet if you look at the stats its a sound business move), they are headed up by a senior commercial bloke from Dixons (Carl Cowling), Travel makes them a mint, they have a lucrative venture / relationship with Post Office too. I don't think their range of magazines can be matched anywhere else, and they have fantastic promotions on stationary and books round the year. I am not a fan boy and never go in there but it is a mistake to lump them in with Clinton Cards and Oddbins etcMost of Derbys shopping real estate is either clothes retailers, which people like to browse IRL or stores like HMV and Currys who have seen all their competitors go under and are the last major bricks and mortar retailers in their sectors.
WH Smith's seem to defy gravity all these years, despite being (IMHO) neither cheap nor particularly good at what they do. Almost anything you can buy at Smith's can be brought either cheaper or with more choice elsewhere.
jtremlett said:
jakesmith said:
On WH Smiths, they are solid, constantly perform, staffed by people who care about the company as the company is quite respectful towards the staff (For example the head office in Swindon has 50, yes 50 mental health first aiders... yes it sounds a bit snowflake but I bet if you look at the stats its a sound business move), they are headed up by a senior commercial bloke from Dixons (Carl Cowling), Travel makes them a mint, they have a lucrative venture / relationship with Post Office too. I don't think their range of magazines can be matched anywhere else, and they have fantastic promotions on stationary and books round the year. I am not a fan boy and never go in there but it is a mistake to lump them in with Clinton Cards and Oddbins etc
There must be two lots of WH Smith because the ones I go in are in a terrible state with rubbish all over the thread-bare carpet and only half the lights on hoping you won't see the place hasn't been cleaned for weeks. Then when you go to buy a magazine they'll try to persuade you to buy some over-priced chocolate and dump of vouchers on you for things you don't want. Robertj21a said:
kev1974 said:
Got to be time for Five Guys' magic money tree to run out surely? They had something when they were just a handful of branches but now they've opened all over the place and there's hardly anybody in them!
Possibly because there's nothing worth going in for ?
s in there and it's not that much more expensive HTP99 said:
Yep, much more, sure it does taste better but it is way, way more expensive and for fast food it just isn't worth the extra, over McDonald's or BK.
I often wonder what place it is supposed to occupy in the market place as in effect it is a fast food joint but it is fast food at near restaurant prices, if I want fast food which is very rare; maybe been caught in town for longer than I wanted or usually after a long flight, I just want cheap and quick, McDonald's or BK is where I head for.
It’s more in % terms but not expensive in pound notes. McDonalds is full of the most appalling chavs on the whole. For a fiver more you get a meal that’s much nicer without prisoners out on day release next to you and serving you. All the ones I’ve been in in Major cities have been full. It’s out in smaller places they aren’t full. I like it. I often wonder what place it is supposed to occupy in the market place as in effect it is a fast food joint but it is fast food at near restaurant prices, if I want fast food which is very rare; maybe been caught in town for longer than I wanted or usually after a long flight, I just want cheap and quick, McDonald's or BK is where I head for.
Edited by HTP99 on Friday 3rd January 22:15
menousername said:
Problem with those places is that its actually more like 40 / 50 quid as you usually go in there with a partner or family and it quickly becomes £15/20 per head. MacDonalds is heaving due to people needing a quick fix and families needing cheap “fairly decent” hot food for the kids.
These burger joints should be compared instead to restaurants - they cost similar money to better food in better surroundings. Few times I have eaten in there the food has been average-to-poor
You’re not wrong to be honest, but I have always found the food delicious tbh These burger joints should be compared instead to restaurants - they cost similar money to better food in better surroundings. Few times I have eaten in there the food has been average-to-poor
hyphen said:
How do you find it compares to other high street burger places? Gbk, Byron, shake shack and so on
Shake shack is my number 1 by some margin, it’s just the full proposition, crinkle cut fries with cheese and black truffle! And the concretes. I’d go shake shack over 5G 10 times out of 10. Burgers are just delicious. It’s £15 all in. More working lunch, or hungover in Vegas type thing than evening destination and happy to pay more for the lively atmosphere and better food and service. If I had more time and wanted a sit down meal I’d go to Byron not GBK. Stopped going to gbk when they stopped satay sauce in 2011. These are places I go when I’m out With the lads or family for an informal bite and a few beers perhaps
McD and BK I have 2-3 times a year either when I’m drunk, or at services with the kids. I enjoy it but it’s not in the same class food wise.
So to answer your question my preference is roughly
Shake Shack
Byron
5 Guys
GBK
BK
McD
SydneyBridge said:
lampchair said:
Not looking too bright for your local highstreet vultures BrightHouse.
Shame.
BrightHouse falls to £16m loss in latest quarter
Good. The high street does not need companies like thatShame.
BrightHouse falls to £16m loss in latest quarter
Gecko1978 said:
Comstock said:
jakesmith said:
Where do poor people with poor credit go to buy a telly then?
Second hand or scrape together a £130 to buy a Bush 32 incher from Argos.Avoid the Bright House sharks at all costs.
( and I say that as a poor person with poor credit myself)
If it was more we could not have afforded it an we were not going to get credit for a TV
So save up an buy it when you can
All good and well saying ‘they should buy a Bush one for £70 from Argos’ you might as well say ‘crack should not be available’.
If it’s legal and controlled it’s better than doorstep lending, loan sharks etc. Their apr is high but not 3 digets, over 5 years. There’s worse out there
You could say all the fast food restaurants aren’t ethical, but the legislature and market decides what goes
That being said their financial statement is not ideal so maybe the market has spoken! They were forced by FSA to lower their APR rates so that must be a factor.
b0rk said:
jakesmith said:
Anyone please?
Buy to let is simple, you buy a flat and rent it out, having paid a premium to the developer to buy the unit.Buy to rent is same but done by institutional investors that own the whole building having financed the development in the first place, no developer premium.
As the building owner you then offer service packages over and above just a apartment, so operators like Tipi, getliving or vasint have bills included packages, gyms, broadband, no or low deposits, flexible leases short or longer than a typical 6 month SDR.
eccles said:
I needed to buy a suit before Christmas for a funeral, both of my nearest branches had a really small range of suits, and the ones they had were almost exclusively slim/skinny fit.
I'm a 53 year old bloke who's used M+S for most of the suits in my life, and every time before, I've been able to go in store and walk out with a suit, this time there was nothing even close.
Last weekend I was in changing a Christmas present for a different size in an even bigger branch, it's a busy Saturday and just about every one in the menswear department is in my demographic or older. Those racks of skinny/slim fit clothes are not getting bought by the likes of me or the average M+S customer.
I'm not fussy, I just want to be able to walk into a shop and buy an outfit that fits me, not faff about ordering online, going back and forth changing for the right size etc.
I gave up on all that in shops 10 years ago when I was about 30. What I do is buy online in multiple sizes, do a little fashion show for the Mrs at home, and send back all the stuff I don't want. If you buy from somewhere that uses Hermes or equivalent for returns you only have to whack it down the local corner shop 150 metres away. No way is that less hassle than going into town, parking, going into a shop etc. I'm a 53 year old bloke who's used M+S for most of the suits in my life, and every time before, I've been able to go in store and walk out with a suit, this time there was nothing even close.
Last weekend I was in changing a Christmas present for a different size in an even bigger branch, it's a busy Saturday and just about every one in the menswear department is in my demographic or older. Those racks of skinny/slim fit clothes are not getting bought by the likes of me or the average M+S customer.
I'm not fussy, I just want to be able to walk into a shop and buy an outfit that fits me, not faff about ordering online, going back and forth changing for the right size etc.
Thankyou4calling said:
I’m gonna make a crazy suggestion that one of the reasons stores are closing and losing sales to online is that the management and staff are talking the business down to the point they are convincing customers to go elsewhere .
I was in Debenhams between Christmas and New Year and the staff member was literally telling customers ( who were elderly) that she ( the staff member) did all her shopping on line and couldn’t fathom why others didn’t.
With staff like that no wonder stores are closing.
If I were the manager of that store I’d have her shaped up or shipped out and some positive people in post who added value not detracted.
And I know posters will say the staff are on minimum wage. I say SO WHAT! Be upbeat, smile, help people and business will go up,
Much of it’s a self fulfilling prophecy.
Millions LOVE going to the shops.
You’re over-extrapolating from a single data point I was in Debenhams between Christmas and New Year and the staff member was literally telling customers ( who were elderly) that she ( the staff member) did all her shopping on line and couldn’t fathom why others didn’t.
With staff like that no wonder stores are closing.
If I were the manager of that store I’d have her shaped up or shipped out and some positive people in post who added value not detracted.
And I know posters will say the staff are on minimum wage. I say SO WHAT! Be upbeat, smile, help people and business will go up,
Much of it’s a self fulfilling prophecy.
Millions LOVE going to the shops.
hyphen said:
p4cks said:
Then I suggest you try recruiting people for retail, it's almost impossible to find a good one and even more challenging to keep them.
You end up replacing people who don't give a st with new people who give less of a st.
Isn't there a steady stream of EU workers for this?You end up replacing people who don't give a s
t with new people who give less of a st. Pret a manger is always well staffed, and can't imagine they pay over the odds.
s that I know ofWRT the comment about recruit good staff, cost levers etc, it is not easy, large scale businesses like Dixons as an example, revenue £10b last year, net rev £166m which is f. all and very precarious, barely worth operating at all in fact for such a low return, you can get 1.6% in a savings account without all the exposure to costs, currency, leases, market etc. Anyway, they have 14,000 people in customer facing roles. if they paid them all £6 an hour more and used this to recruit much better people, they would not make any profit at all. And they'd need to grow sales very significantly to even break even.
The money just isn't there to invest in staff. Even John Lewis is minimum wage.
The general problem retail has got is that the store experience rarely adds enough value to justify any price increase vs online and therefore 100's of stores with staff and heating bills are competing with each fulfilment warehouse & website. The good stores that are pleasant, interesting & fun to brose will survive as will the very cheap ones and places that are service orientated will always have some if a somewhat diminished presence like estate agents & banks. The middle groubd of mundane forgetable also-rans will continue to dissapear.
Joey Deacon said:
Alucidnation said:
Robertj21a said:
Alucidnation said:
Too many burger joints. The public are fed up with being taken for a ride with silly prices.Frankie and Bennies, Chiquitos, Wild wood, Bills, TGI Fridays, Cote, Las Iguanas etc. I am amazed that any of these are still in business considering how average the food is compared to how expensive it is.
Cote, Bills and Wildwood are much better than those others you mentioned and a proper sit down meal
ACCYSTAN said:
Brighthouse have become too niche in terms of the small pool of customers they target - poor, bad credit rating, desperate to keep up with the joneses, little disposable cash, little understanding of an items material value (price).
As a result they inevitably get lots of non payment issues along with court and bayliff costs.
Can anyone confirm if the in shop sales teams at Brighthouse get paid commission on each sale and have a weekly/monthly target?
They don’t get bonuses or commission based on lending due to FCA rules around lending. That was one issue. Another was lowering of their APR. Another is the general collapse of prices for CE products. As a result they inevitably get lots of non payment issues along with court and bayliff costs.
Can anyone confirm if the in shop sales teams at Brighthouse get paid commission on each sale and have a weekly/monthly target?
Edited by ACCYSTAN on Thursday 5th March 06:59
Edited by ACCYSTAN on Thursday 5th March 07:00
EarlofDrift said:
vaud said:
F&B is ok. It's expensive and hard to work with but has more pigment than most.
It's the only brand you can hold upside down and the paint won't spill out, Dulux Trade you used to be able to do it before they changed the recipe.But whoever think's Valspar is good paint needs to have a good look at themselves, it's absolute rubbish.
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