Need money advice for the in-laws
Discussion
Thanks for the advice all.
There are a few things at play, though my query was mainly about the financial side, hence posting in here.
Whoever said about psychological issues is bang on the money (pun not intended). But like I said, the main gist is to worry about that after we've made sure they're not homeless.That stuff and the practicalities will be a complete other barrel of fun. MIL has depression she won't get proper help for and is basically using finding bargains she doesn't need and looking after animals well past it are her way of coping. Which we're going to have to take away from her and hope it doesn't push her over the edge. FIL is also desperately miserable because his life turned out s
tty. They've also both lived on that farm in the middle of nowhere for the best part of 2 decades so their social skills and knowledge of the world outside is shaky.
We had FIL/"Steve" round to ours last night to try and get a better handle on what's going on. It looks like they scrimped, saved and invested back in the day and managed to buy the place outright. They were pretty well off when they retired and if they could have stayed thrifty all indications at the time were they'd be fine. It looks like between their pension screwing them over and some investments underperforming plus all the animal/crap costs they've been running down their resources. The son has just been taken off PIP (whether that was justified is another argument - I think he'd fall apart in the real world) and there's no tax credits etc now the daughter is 18 (who has her own problems).
I should say that however they come across here they've never treated me with anything other than kindness. They're not bad people, they've just got themselves into a hole (of their own making) and we're trying to help them out. It was never their intention to "live off the state" or be frivoluos. They genuinely believed that the'd be OK and events have overtaken them.
The plan last night was to get actual real figures to assess exactly the situation. That didn't happen, but we've finally got him to admit that burying his head in the sand won't cut it. He has to confront this with MIL (sod it, Kate for the sake of argument - this isn't mumsnet). So the plan is:
He has to broach the subject at home. He doesn't want Kate thinking we've been colluding, and if we bring it up first she'll hate us. She'll hate us anyway probably.
When she realises that this is a real thing that's happening, we're going to help them to budget (then we'll go through whatever bank statements the cats haven't pissed on) to stretch out the money to give them the most amount of time to sell the house.
Next step is to get rid of the animals and all the accumulated ste.
While that happens we'll look into maximising the return they can get on the property and land. Maybe planning permission, professional clean of the house, sell it and the unit separately...
Then help them to buy a new place (or two smaller places if this end up being the thing that finally splits them up)
We did ask the question outright to Steve whether he wanted our help or if we were meddling as someone pointed out. I think we've settled on he needs to do this, and we're going to support him and Kate while they do so with effort, advice and time. I'll be honest, it was fking heartbreaking watching the man I asked for his daughter's hand in marriage telling us that "It's our own problem of our own making. We don't deserve anyone's help and shouldn't be dragging you into it, we deserve this and you don't" and practically beg us to ignore them and do whatever we can to help the sister instead at detriment to him and Kate. We did point out that the best thing for Sis would be to make sure her parents don't end up destitute and she has a roof over her head. fk, I'm getting teary at work just remembering it.
So, we have an action pan. A horrible, stty action plan, but we'll get through it. Don't know what the point of this post is, but it's been cathartic and helped me get my head round it if nothing else.
There are a few things at play, though my query was mainly about the financial side, hence posting in here.
Whoever said about psychological issues is bang on the money (pun not intended). But like I said, the main gist is to worry about that after we've made sure they're not homeless.That stuff and the practicalities will be a complete other barrel of fun. MIL has depression she won't get proper help for and is basically using finding bargains she doesn't need and looking after animals well past it are her way of coping. Which we're going to have to take away from her and hope it doesn't push her over the edge. FIL is also desperately miserable because his life turned out s
tty. They've also both lived on that farm in the middle of nowhere for the best part of 2 decades so their social skills and knowledge of the world outside is shaky. We had FIL/"Steve" round to ours last night to try and get a better handle on what's going on. It looks like they scrimped, saved and invested back in the day and managed to buy the place outright. They were pretty well off when they retired and if they could have stayed thrifty all indications at the time were they'd be fine. It looks like between their pension screwing them over and some investments underperforming plus all the animal/crap costs they've been running down their resources. The son has just been taken off PIP (whether that was justified is another argument - I think he'd fall apart in the real world) and there's no tax credits etc now the daughter is 18 (who has her own problems).
I should say that however they come across here they've never treated me with anything other than kindness. They're not bad people, they've just got themselves into a hole (of their own making) and we're trying to help them out. It was never their intention to "live off the state" or be frivoluos. They genuinely believed that the'd be OK and events have overtaken them.
The plan last night was to get actual real figures to assess exactly the situation. That didn't happen, but we've finally got him to admit that burying his head in the sand won't cut it. He has to confront this with MIL (sod it, Kate for the sake of argument - this isn't mumsnet). So the plan is:
He has to broach the subject at home. He doesn't want Kate thinking we've been colluding, and if we bring it up first she'll hate us. She'll hate us anyway probably.
When she realises that this is a real thing that's happening, we're going to help them to budget (then we'll go through whatever bank statements the cats haven't pissed on) to stretch out the money to give them the most amount of time to sell the house.
Next step is to get rid of the animals and all the accumulated s
te. While that happens we'll look into maximising the return they can get on the property and land. Maybe planning permission, professional clean of the house, sell it and the unit separately...
Then help them to buy a new place (or two smaller places if this end up being the thing that finally splits them up)
We did ask the question outright to Steve whether he wanted our help or if we were meddling as someone pointed out. I think we've settled on he needs to do this, and we're going to support him and Kate while they do so with effort, advice and time. I'll be honest, it was f
king heartbreaking watching the man I asked for his daughter's hand in marriage telling us that "It's our own problem of our own making. We don't deserve anyone's help and shouldn't be dragging you into it, we deserve this and you don't" and practically beg us to ignore them and do whatever we can to help the sister instead at detriment to him and Kate. We did point out that the best thing for Sis would be to make sure her parents don't end up destitute and she has a roof over her head. fk, I'm getting teary at work just remembering it.So, we have an action pan. A horrible, s
tty action plan, but we'll get through it. Don't know what the point of this post is, but it's been cathartic and helped me get my head round it if nothing else.Don't forget that through all this stress and hardship there has to be a bit of relief here and there to stop people cracking up.
You might want to go out for a pint, just you and Steve, and your wife might want to take her mum out for a drink one evening every so often - your treat - but with the intention of just getting them away from the eye of the storm for a few hours every week or two. You can afford the £20 worth of pop and petrol and giving them some time away from home and each other might just hold the thing together whilst they sort everything out.
Steve has had the balls to open up to you - that takes guts even if he is a bit late with it all - and your support will be invaluable. One of the things you can do is help them see the light that will be at the end of the tunnel from time to time.
You might want to go out for a pint, just you and Steve, and your wife might want to take her mum out for a drink one evening every so often - your treat - but with the intention of just getting them away from the eye of the storm for a few hours every week or two. You can afford the £20 worth of pop and petrol and giving them some time away from home and each other might just hold the thing together whilst they sort everything out.
Steve has had the balls to open up to you - that takes guts even if he is a bit late with it all - and your support will be invaluable. One of the things you can do is help them see the light that will be at the end of the tunnel from time to time.
Eric Mc said:
It was me that mentioned mental health issues.
Despite your long reply, you didn't answer my second point. Have they had any intervention from someone who might help them with their psychiatric needs?
This isn't a money problem - this is a health problem.
Hi Eric, sorry. You're right. I believe she has in the past. How recent I don't know. This is definitely something that we'll need to address while this goes on. As early as possible. Hopefully get her to see that she has a real issue which she isn't coping well with and to re- visit a professional. She's stubborn, but she'll have to do something. As for him, I don't think so. Despite your long reply, you didn't answer my second point. Have they had any intervention from someone who might help them with their psychiatric needs?
This isn't a money problem - this is a health problem.
AndStilliRise said:
Emotional thread. Would there be a way of selling some of the land and still keep the house?
Other than that, downsizing would be the preferable option, move house and buy a BTL to give them a fixed income.
To be honest, being forced to leave that house will be the best thing that's ever happened to them, it'll force the animal/stuff issue, the building repairs and upkeep are beyond them and if they moved into a smaller, cleaner house that's easier to keep clean due to size and no animals they may see that it's worth keeping the place in good nick, which will be better for them and the kids. The current place is too far gone I think. It's definitely the land that's the thing worth selling. It just happens to have a house on it.Other than that, downsizing would be the preferable option, move house and buy a BTL to give them a fixed income.
If they could downsize and BTL (or keep the industrial unit separate and rent that out if they can bring it up to regs) that would be ideal. Apart from the hoarding they're actually very thrifty (I know that's basically an oxymoron). The issue isn't that she'll only be happy in a £500 dress, She's perfectly happy in a £5 dress, but she'll buy half a dozen of them because they're such a bargain. Obviously this is what we're going to be helping her get over, with professional help if possible.
WorrierT140 said:
AndStilliRise said:
Emotional thread. Would there be a way of selling some of the land and still keep the house?
Other than that, downsizing would be the preferable option, move house and buy a BTL to give them a fixed income.
To be honest, being forced to leave that house will be the best thing that's ever happened to them, it'll force the animal/stuff issue, the building repairs and upkeep are beyond them and if they moved into a smaller, cleaner house that's easier to keep clean due to size and no animals they may see that it's worth keeping the place in good nick, which will be better for them and the kids. The current place is too far gone I think. It's definitely the land that's the thing worth selling. It just happens to have a house on it.Other than that, downsizing would be the preferable option, move house and buy a BTL to give them a fixed income.
If they could downsize and BTL (or keep the industrial unit separate and rent that out if they can bring it up to regs) that would be ideal. Apart from the hoarding they're actually very thrifty (I know that's basically an oxymoron). The issue isn't that she'll only be happy in a £500 dress, She's perfectly happy in a £5 dress, but she'll buy half a dozen of them because they're such a bargain. Obviously this is what we're going to be helping her get over, with professional help if possible.
Get the house for sale and find something more suitable. Sell it to the MIL and once she understands that moving into a "bargin" of a house the animals will be dealt with along the way. Small steps init?
They have equity.
Equity release or you buy the house on a reversion basis e.g. 30-40% of market value due to sitting tenant likely to live for a very long time.
When they finally burn through that money, they should be well over 65 so state pension and minimum income guarantees kick in.
Equity release or you buy the house on a reversion basis e.g. 30-40% of market value due to sitting tenant likely to live for a very long time.
When they finally burn through that money, they should be well over 65 so state pension and minimum income guarantees kick in.
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