Crypto Currency Thread

[4Q]

sc0tt said:

Depends. I bought a week ago and haven’t made a bean

I made my first purchase the same day as you and I'm up 20% in 10 days.

[NickCQ]

Price went crazy in the last 2 hours. We could see $6k pretty shortly
http://bitcointicker.co/

ETA it looks like there were some trades above $6k!

[matrignano]

It reached 5996, looks like its resisting going through 6k!
Watching keenly as I wondering if there will be a major profit taking at 6k or if it will keep going up

[4130chris]

over €5000/ BTC

[ReaperCushions]

matrignano said:

Watching keenly as I wondering if there will be a major profit taking at 6k or if it will keep going up

Both I think, short-term dip back to $5800 / $5900 then up towards the low $6ks early next week. Seems to be the well set out pattern on this.


The key for me is adoption. Once this gets adopted as a mainstream 'currency' accepted by large brand shops and websites and traded by the large institutions we're in a very good place. Currently, it is pretty geeky, technical and quite 'millennial'. Also, I feel like the usability in buying, selling and storing is still a little hard work. Although a damn sight easier than a few years ago.

[Croutons]

I've realised there is no point arguing with people about BTC, it's like arguing with a lefty about economics. The proponents simply don't listen, call you clueless, or put up some sort of naive, foolish argument countering your common sense.

So I'm in

It seems to me that the geeks are about to inherit the earth, as fools appear to me to be parting with $6000 for what looks like the exclusive right to a memory address.

What a great scam!

And 10 mins later someone else will pay you more, for, that same address! If the server it's on hasn't been pinched, and you can remember your fricking password

"oh but you don't understand" they cry.

"oh but fiat has no backing, so this having no backing makes it the same" they cry, ignoring that backing is what led to the regulation etc al permitting the break.

I've even heard claims then the energy used to mine the coin is its backing.

Mainstream adoption? Use as an "actual" currency? Never going to happen. Not just because of the logistics ($5300 yesterday am, $6065 now, less of course all the scammy fees to move from fiat in then back out again - the geeks really are doing well here), but with only 21 million coins available, and no I don't care about satoshi, that's one each for the population of Niger. Think about that. Not from a hand-waving "scarcity thus means value" insane proponent view, but a logistical one. Globally, 24 hours a day, that small a number cannot replace USD or anything else.

[Behemoth]

Croutons said:

"oh but you don't understand" they cry

You can say that again.

I can't be bothered to counter all the misconceptions. I'll stick with the last one. You don't need a whole coin. They are divisible to eight decimal places. More decimal places could be added without much trouble.

[Croutons]

"But it's a millennial thing"

Well I suppose if you mean like

- Paying through the nose to rent a tiny room in a tired shared house in an up-and-coming (but still quite stabby) part of London,

- While hoping the moped going past is a Deliveroo, not going to snatch your mobile phone,

- While your student loan increases in size faster than you're allowed to pay it back,

Then yes, they definitely are easier to mug.

[James_B]

Behemoth said:

You can say that again.

I can't be bothered to counter all the misconceptions. I'll stick with the last one. You don't need a whole coin. They are divisible to eight decimal places. More decimal places could be added without much trouble.

Many years ago, when I was a working particle physicist, I’d have discussions with proper cranks about relativity, free energy, and how the experts were all wrong. It was amusing, idle fun, and interesting to try to understand the psychology of a rank amateur who was convinced that they knew best.

Now that I’ve spent a good few years making a living in high finance, conversations on crypto currencies have the same sort of flavour. People are dead certain that they know better than those stuffy investment bankers of the old school, who just lack the vision to see what is obviously the truth.

No-one, though, has yet been able to even approach a coherent argument as to why bitcoin offers the man in the street, or the modern corporation, anything over what the pound, dollar or Euro does. It’s being sold like a religion is at the moment.

It’s possible that in ten years I’ll be trading ethereum swaps, or bitcoin inflation linked notes, but it really doesn’t look hugely likely at present. I’m also not at all convinced that spending thousands of pounds on a computer rig that carries out fundamentally useless calculations is a sensible long term investment. It makes sense as a hobby, but I don’t see that it’ll get you a big house and a couple of nice sports cars better than would putting the time and money into getting a job as a trader in traditional products.

[x5x3]

you are correct that the days of home mining are basically gone, but things are changing, part of the Bitcoin Gold hard fork is to change the underlying hashing algorithm to something more resistant to ASICs, and Ethereum is moving towards POS rather than POW.

and if it is a religion then it is definitely the "Carlsberg" religion

[James_B]

x5x3 said:

and if it is a religion then it is definitely the "Carlsberg" religion

And as I say, I could well be wrong, but the argument style of the proponents does seem so very similar to that of people who write in support of free energy or homeopathy.

I’m happy to wait and see. I’ve no stake in its success or failure, but will be happy to step in and trade it if my bank’s customers ever express enough of an interest.

Would any of the proponents on here price me a five year non-deliverable forward, or a deposit rate?

[4130chris]

waiting for a 'correction' or 'dip' to buy more, but it just keeps going up....!

[Behemoth]

James_B said:

the argument style of the proponents does seem so very similar to that of people who write in support of free energy or homeopathy.

You'll find all manner of argumentation if you look for it. Rubbishing via a crude ad hominem isn't exactly high argument. It's poor rhetoric.

James_B said:

No-one, though, has yet been able to even approach a coherent argument as to why bitcoin offers the man in the street, or the modern corporation, anything over what the pound, dollar or Euro does.

There are plenty very coherent arguments covering many use cases in these areas. You just haven't seen the theory hit the ground. With good reason - we're many years from ubiquity. Slow growth is a good thing. I'd be seriously worried if, eg, Paypal decided to accept Bitcoin tomorrow.

Milton Friedman predicted the appearance of an internet currency in 1999. The use cases he described are those that Bitcoin satisfies. ( https://youtu.be/j2mdYX1nF_Y?t=3m17s ) If you want to find intellectually and technically well developed thinking, there is plenty of it bearing no resemblance whatsoever to quack pseudo science hypotheses like homeopathy or free energy. You'll find plenty of quacks, too, of course

[x5x3]

James_B said:

And as I say, I could well be wrong, but the argument style of the proponents does seem so very similar to that of people who write in support of free energy or homeopathy.

I’m happy to wait and see. I’ve no stake in its success or failure, but will be happy to step in and trade it if my bank’s customers ever express enough of an interest.

Would any of the proponents on here price me a five year non-deliverable forward, or a deposit rate?

and to perhaps float an idea - I suspect it is exactly this that appeals to many people - i.e. that an established insider in the current "finance world" just does not get it. It upsets their view of the world where they make many £/$/etc - it is a disruptive technology.

I suspect if I gave you a price on your requested products (yes I can google) then you would not like it - but hey, I suspect if you gave me a price on one of your "products" then I'd also say no.

[Mousem40]

James_B said:

And as I say, I could well be wrong, but the argument style of the proponents does seem so very similar to that of people who write in support of free energy or homeopathy.

I’m happy to wait and see. I’ve no stake in its success or failure, but will be happy to step in and trade it if my bank’s customers ever express enough of an interest.

Would any of the proponents on here price me a five year non-deliverable forward, or a deposit rate?

It's a nascent market, those are ridiculous questions to ask and you know it.

I used to trade derivatives at an investment bank. Millions spent on research, millions spent on IT systems. We made most of our money because of knowledge gained being on the inside, not because our economists predicted the markets well. They were wrong half the time.

You wait until the blockchain kills off half the jobs in banking. Read the UBS white paper for a start https://www.ubs.com/global/en/about_ubs/follow_ubs...

It's going to revolutionise almost every industry in the world.

Have a look at the LAToken white paper. All assets are going to be tokenised, no need for banks anymore.

https://cdn-new.latoken.com/common/files/whitepape...

So keep your head in the sand and keep watching the price of Bitcoin rising and laugh it off as a fad while they clear away your desk and all your 'pork belly' trading charts you cling to.

[Henrico]

Mousem40 said:

It's a nascent market, those are ridiculous questions to ask and you know it.

I used to trade derivatives at an investment bank. Millions spent on research, millions spent on IT systems. We made most of our money because of knowledge gained being on the inside, not because our economists predicted the markets well. They were wrong half the time.

You wait until the blockchain kills off half the jobs in banking. Read the UBS white paper for a start https://www.ubs.com/global/en/about_ubs/follow_ubs...

It's going to revolutionise almost every industry in the world.

Have a look at the LAToken white paper. All assets are going to be tokenised, no need for banks anymore.

https://cdn-new.latoken.com/common/files/whitepape...

So keep your head in the sand and keep watching the price of Bitcoin rising and laugh it off as a fad while they clear away your desk and all your 'pork belly' trading charts you cling to.

Great summary

[Mousem40]

So I've been trying to buy more BTC before the triple witching hour (Bitcoin Gold, Amazon announcing payments in Bitcoin on the 26th perhaps and Segwit2x) but it's been so painful!

1) Coinbase - incredibly low limits (£500pw for me) tried to send them Eur and they sent it back saying banking details didn't match. Nightmare

2) Poloniex - I literally had to take a selfie of myself holding a piece of paper with the date and also holding my passport - and send that to them as proof. I wait confirmation

3) Kraken - I can't send them funds because the reference they ask you to put into deposit payments to them is way too long and won't fit and I'm sure will be rejected.

4) bittylicious - terrible prices, and max purchase 0.3 BTC which you can only do every 48 hours (so far for me)

Some of the other exchanges don't accept gbp or EUR payments etc etc

Who says bitcoin is for criminals sloshing dirty money around??

Anyone have any ideas how to get actual BTC in decent size? (not spread bets on the market) quickly?

[x5x3]

Mousem40 said:

So I've been trying to buy more BTC before the triple witching hour (Bitcoin Gold, Amazon announcing payments in Bitcoin on the 26th perhaps and Segwit2x) but it's been so painful!

1) Coinbase - incredibly low limits (£500pw for me) tried to send them Eur and they sent it back saying banking details didn't match. Nightmare

2) Poloniex - I literally had to take a selfie of myself holding a piece of paper with the date and also holding my passport - and send that to them as proof. I wait confirmation

3) Kraken - I can't send them funds because the reference they ask you to put into deposit payments to them is way too long and won't fit and I'm sure will be rejected.

4) bittylicious - terrible prices, and max purchase 0.3 BTC which you can only do every 48 hours (so far for me)

Some of the other exchanges don't accept gbp or EUR payments etc etc

Who says bitcoin is for criminals sloshing dirty money around??

Anyone have any ideas how to get actual BTC in decent size? (not spread bets on the market) quickly?

localbitcoins

[Vyse]

Try bitstamp.

Mousem40 said:

So I've been trying to buy more BTC before the triple witching hour (Bitcoin Gold, Amazon announcing payments in Bitcoin on the 26th perhaps and Segwit2x) but it's been so painful!

1) Coinbase - incredibly low limits (£500pw for me) tried to send them Eur and they sent it back saying banking details didn't match. Nightmare

2) Poloniex - I literally had to take a selfie of myself holding a piece of paper with the date and also holding my passport - and send that to them as proof. I wait confirmation

3) Kraken - I can't send them funds because the reference they ask you to put into deposit payments to them is way too long and won't fit and I'm sure will be rejected.

4) bittylicious - terrible prices, and max purchase 0.3 BTC which you can only do every 48 hours (so far for me)

Some of the other exchanges don't accept gbp or EUR payments etc etc

Who says bitcoin is for criminals sloshing dirty money around??

Anyone have any ideas how to get actual BTC in decent size? (not spread bets on the market) quickly?

[NickCQ]

Mousem40 said:

It's going to revolutionise almost every industry in the world.

The thing is, the 'it' that will revolutionise things is the blockchain technology that allows decentralised authentication. There's no reason why a particular instance of it (i.e. bitcoin) will become valuable. Indeed, the well publicised limitations of the bitcoin protocol means that it is not suited to running the global financial system on its own.