Another boundary / title plan issue
Discussion
Equus said:
One of the most basic checks that any developer will do when looking at a site for purchase is to obtain all neighbouring land titles and reconcile them with the topographical survey (= careful visual check on the ground, if you're a private buyer of a house), each other, and all easements and rights of way across the land.
Most solicitors can barely read a plan, and don't routinely check this stuff, anyway.
Come on, guys, you wouldn't buy a £5K car (I hope) without careful visual checks to make sure it looks straight, and checking the chassis numbers against the docs. This is the basic equivalent, so why on earth are you willing to commit to a purchase of £several hundred thousand without it?
The other reason lawyers ask the buyer to check the plan is that lawyers don't go and inspect the property! Arguably the valuer should do that I guess but that would depend on the level of survey being done I assume
Equus said:
blueg33 said:
So many threads on titles where people haven’t inspected the boundaries before buying.
I think it should be taught at school!
I think it should be taught at school!
One of the most basic checks that any developer will do when looking at a site for purchase is to obtain all neighbouring land titles and reconcile them with the topographical survey (= careful visual check on the ground, if you're a private buyer of a house), each other, and all easements and rights of way across the land.
Most solicitors can barely read a plan, and don't routinely check this stuff, anyway.
Come on, guys, you wouldn't buy a £5K car (I hope) without careful visual checks to make sure it looks straight, and checking the chassis numbers against the docs. This is the basic equivalent, so why on earth are you willing to commit to a purchase of £several hundred thousand without it?
I suspect this may be the case for the majority of buyers (happy to be corrected).
However, reading this thread (and respecting Equus' opinion), I shall certainly be checking in future.
kevbernard said:
I suspect this may be the case for the majority of buyers (happy to be corrected).
No, you're absolutely right: most private house buyers don't. But the number of threads we get like this one suggest that perhaps they should?I also routinely do a check against the Land Registry title plan whenever I create a Site Location/Site Plan for a planning application, these days, too, 'cos experience has taught me not to trust what clients tell me about their land ownership boundaries.
I had one last year on a nursing home, where we were asked to prepare the construction drawings and tender package on the back of another Architect's Planning Approval. Long story short: the whole project failed to proceed because it turned out they were relying on being able to widen a shared drive that my client thought was his but actually belonged to the neighbour, who didn't want to see the work done at any price.
Equus said:
kevbernard said:
I suspect this may be the case for the majority of buyers (happy to be corrected).
No, you're absolutely right: most private house buyers don't. But the number of threads we get like this one suggest that perhaps they should?I also routinely do a check against the Land Registry title plan whenever I create a Site Location/Site Plan for a planning application, these days, too, 'cos experience has taught me not to trust what clients tell me about their land ownership boundaries.
I had one last year on a nursing home, where we were asked to prepare the construction drawings and tender package on the back of another Architect's Planning Approval. Long story short: the whole project failed to proceed because it turned out they were relying on being able to widen a shared drive that my client thought was his but actually belonged to the neighbour, who didn't want to see the work done at any price.
Zoobeef said:
I assume would expect their solicitor to help make sure the right bits are checked.
As has been said, the Solicitors never go anywhere near the property, so even if they were good enough at reading drawings to reconcile the title to its neighbours (and most aren't), they still couldn't tell you whether what was shown on the drawing reflects what was there on the ground.Equus said:
As has been said, the Solicitors never go anywhere near the property, so even if they were good enough at reading drawings to reconcile the title to its neighbours (and most aren't), they still couldn't tell you whether what was shown on the drawing reflects what was there on the ground.
Like mine had asked me to confirm they were right (she had the plans in front of us) If all solicitors asked and you didn't check then its your fault really. If they didn't ask and it didn't really occur to you to check, as its not asthough we all buy houses every day, then thats a bit crap.kevbernard said:
Equus said:
blueg33 said:
So many threads on titles where people haven’t inspected the boundaries before buying.
I think it should be taught at school!
I think it should be taught at school!
One of the most basic checks that any developer will do when looking at a site for purchase is to obtain all neighbouring land titles and reconcile them with the topographical survey (= careful visual check on the ground, if you're a private buyer of a house), each other, and all easements and rights of way across the land.
Most solicitors can barely read a plan, and don't routinely check this stuff, anyway.
Come on, guys, you wouldn't buy a £5K car (I hope) without careful visual checks to make sure it looks straight, and checking the chassis numbers against the docs. This is the basic equivalent, so why on earth are you willing to commit to a purchase of £several hundred thousand without it?
I suspect this may be the case for the majority of buyers (happy to be corrected).
However, reading this thread (and respecting Equus' opinion), I shall certainly be checking in future.
The same principle should be applied to all property purchases including flats (so many lease plans are wrong).
As Equus says, it’s like buying a car, it’s basic, but you need to be taught the basics. It should be taught at school. PGSCE or whatever it’s called would be a starting point.
If your son has a mortgage then it may be out of his hands as to whether he chooses not to take action - his mortgage probably demands that he does take action to correct the situation and protect the bank’s lending.
Can he therefore blame it on the bank when he takes action against the neighbour? It might be a better way of TRYING to maintain neighbourly relations?
Can he therefore blame it on the bank when he takes action against the neighbour? It might be a better way of TRYING to maintain neighbourly relations?
Zoobeef said:
I remember my solicitor asking me if the boundary matches reality. Most people I assume would expect their solicitor to help make sure the right bits are checked.
My solicitor failed to notice that a third of my plot was unregistered land! Well, he did notice eventually - after we had already completed and moved in.
. My wife nearly had a heart attack when she opened the letter some months after we moved in demanding immediate payment for a large sum of money and a fine. The solicitor was quite apologetic and sorted it it but even so..littlebasher said:
Zoobeef said:
I remember my solicitor asking me if the boundary matches reality. Most people I assume would expect their solicitor to help make sure the right bits are checked.
My solicitor failed to notice that a third of my plot was unregistered land! Well, he did notice eventually - after we had already completed and moved in.Solicitors generally don't go to site. The client is their eyes.
blueg33 said:
Thats bad, but you should also have spotted that.
Solicitors generally don't go to site. The client is their eyes.
I thought i had, Solicitor thought there was only a single title but i found a 2nd (confusing as that title shows as a different street), he insisted this covered the rest of the plotSolicitors generally don't go to site. The client is their eyes.
It didnt!
Now i have 3 titles
How long ago?
Its pretty easy these days with the tool that Equus took a screen grab from to see where titles abut.
3 titles is fine, just makes sure that they join up so that the boundaries are contiguous. If they don't you may have a problem when it comes to sell. Th eland registry map search should show you, that what Equus used.
Its pretty easy these days with the tool that Equus took a screen grab from to see where titles abut.
3 titles is fine, just makes sure that they join up so that the boundaries are contiguous. If they don't you may have a problem when it comes to sell. Th eland registry map search should show you, that what Equus used.
littlebasher said:
Equus said:
Purely out of interest, where do these maps showing plan titles come from?I assume they're not something available to Joe Bloggs on the LR website.
If you pm me your address I can have a look on Land Registry or Land Insight and take a snap
littlebasher said:
...I assume they're not something available to Joe Bloggs on the LR website.
I'm told that the LR portal that's available to Joe Bloggs (as opposed to registered business users) only allows you to see one title at a time, not the whole 'mosaic'.No idea why, as it's not as if the latter gives away any state secrets, or anything.
As blueg33 says, it's pretty easy these days. Difficult to imagine, but we haven't always had an online portal that allowed access to this lot!
Equus said:
I'm told that the LR portal that's available to Joe Bloggs (as opposed to registered business users) only allows you to see one title at a time, not the whole 'mosaic'.
No idea why, as it's not as if the latter gives away any state secrets, or anything.
As blueg33 says, it's pretty easy these days. Difficult to imagine, but we haven't always had an online portal that allowed access to this lot!
That was the problem I had when I was looking as a member of public you can only look at one record. Not only that but I couldn't find some of the titles either, and each one you find costs £3.50 to actually print. Its not until after you print it you know if you have the right one.No idea why, as it's not as if the latter gives away any state secrets, or anything.
As blueg33 says, it's pretty easy these days. Difficult to imagine, but we haven't always had an online portal that allowed access to this lot!
So for the area Equus looked up for further up the thread as a member of public I get this plan
and this list of properties
[url]
|https://thumbsnap.com/03JtGmg3[/urlSo you can see how difficult it is to see whats in the area!
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