Tenant broken boiler, refusing me access to check it
Discussion
Bear-n said:
It's not true that it's up to the tenant.
To start from the top, an MPTL (which you're asking for) is one of three different measures in what's known as an APA (alternative payment arrangement). These are where payments of UC are different to the norm. They consist of more frequent payments, split payments (these are of no interest to you) and then a <deep breath> Managed payment of housing cost element to the landlord (MPTL)
When deciding whether to pay via an APA, there are Tier 1 & Tier 2 factors to consider in deciding whether appropriate - these describe circumstances in which the APA (in your case, an MPTL)) should be put in place. It's a safeguarding thing essentially, and one of the automatic "yup, put that in place now - do not pass go" is an accumulation of 2 months worth of rent arrears.
More exciting information can be found here: https://www.gov.uk/government/publications/univers...
Thanks, that's good to know.To start from the top, an MPTL (which you're asking for) is one of three different measures in what's known as an APA (alternative payment arrangement). These are where payments of UC are different to the norm. They consist of more frequent payments, split payments (these are of no interest to you) and then a <deep breath> Managed payment of housing cost element to the landlord (MPTL)
When deciding whether to pay via an APA, there are Tier 1 & Tier 2 factors to consider in deciding whether appropriate - these describe circumstances in which the APA (in your case, an MPTL)) should be put in place. It's a safeguarding thing essentially, and one of the automatic "yup, put that in place now - do not pass go" is an accumulation of 2 months worth of rent arrears.
More exciting information can be found here: https://www.gov.uk/government/publications/univers...
I think tomorrow I'll ring UC and see if I can get the tenants case working to get in touch with me so I can find out what the hell has gone on and is going on. I'll also see if I can find out how the tenant is able to keep cancelling these arrangements.
In the meantime, I've submitted yet another UC47 just on the off chance that we do get somewhere while we're waiting for the legal people to do their thing.
It looks like UC have put a payment in our account for the rent this month.... which is odd given that I've got emails saying otherwise.
EDIT: It might be a false alarm. I've spoke to UC and they're saying that the payment isn't from them.
When we used to receive rent for the tenant, we used to get £389.99, and this week we've had a random payment into the same bank account for £389.98. All on it is a 9 digit number and the bank can't tell us who sent it.
EDIT: It might be a false alarm. I've spoke to UC and they're saying that the payment isn't from them.
When we used to receive rent for the tenant, we used to get £389.99, and this week we've had a random payment into the same bank account for £389.98. All on it is a 9 digit number and the bank can't tell us who sent it.
Edited by TheBinarySheep on Wednesday 14th July 10:46
After speaking with three different people at UC the other day, all of them more or less said the payment that we'd received wasn't from them.
Yet this morning, I've received a letter from DWP confirming that the payment is for rent.
I honestly have no idea what sort of people UC have manning the phones, but not a single one that I've spoken to appears to know what they're doing.
Yet this morning, I've received a letter from DWP confirming that the payment is for rent.
I honestly have no idea what sort of people UC have manning the phones, but not a single one that I've spoken to appears to know what they're doing.
Another small update. I submitted another UC47 at the beginning of July. I've had a call from the tenants case manager to setup that UC47. While I had the guy on the phone I got some further information.
What seems to be happening is that the tenant is requesting that UC close their current contract with UC, and then she's starting a new one. Doing this then cancels any UC47's that were setup on the closed contract, hence why our managed payments keep getting stopped.
The guy confirmed that the payment we received earlier this month wasn't for the tenants most recent contract, but from their last contract, so what seems to have happened is, we setup a UC47, the tenant stopped the contract, but in the meantime UC had already processed a payment so that still went through and we received it. Knowing this, what we're going to do it submit a UC47 every month to try and see if we can catch a payment before she has chance to cancel her contract.
The case manager at UC has placed a note on the account explaining that the tenant appears to be closing contracts to avoid making rent payments, and to not close the account, but I don't know what impact that'll actually have.
What seems to be happening is that the tenant is requesting that UC close their current contract with UC, and then she's starting a new one. Doing this then cancels any UC47's that were setup on the closed contract, hence why our managed payments keep getting stopped.
The guy confirmed that the payment we received earlier this month wasn't for the tenants most recent contract, but from their last contract, so what seems to have happened is, we setup a UC47, the tenant stopped the contract, but in the meantime UC had already processed a payment so that still went through and we received it. Knowing this, what we're going to do it submit a UC47 every month to try and see if we can catch a payment before she has chance to cancel her contract.
The case manager at UC has placed a note on the account explaining that the tenant appears to be closing contracts to avoid making rent payments, and to not close the account, but I don't know what impact that'll actually have.
Mark Benson said:
The amount of time this mouthbreather spends trying to fiddle the system, you'd think it would be easier to just get a job.
This was exactly what we said. If she put this much effort into a job I reckon she'd be doing well for herself.It'll be good if we can extract some rent from them, but what pleases us the most is knowing that she'll be absolutely furious if we manage to outfox her.
Even though we know that our last UC47 has been processed this morning, I've already submitted another in anticipation for her cancelling her existing contract. It'll take a couple of weeks for the new UC47 to get looked at, but I'll just keep doing this and hopefully every month we'll catch a payment.
Small update.
Due to COVID and court delays, a telephone hearing has been arranged between a judge, my solicitor and I'm guessing the tenants (if they bother), on the 9th September. It's some new process put in place by the courts to deal with possession claims. On the day, the judge will decide whether the case should proceed to a substantive hearing. We're being told as well that a settlement could be made on this day if the tenant agrees to a possession order then they won't be deemed to have made themselves homeless. I doubt the tenant will even be bothered to respond at all. Shame that this extra step has cost us another £400 though.
In the meantime, even though we have a managed payment setup with UC, we've not received a payment this month, so I'm guessing the tenant has worked their magic on the contract again and cancelled it.
Due to COVID and court delays, a telephone hearing has been arranged between a judge, my solicitor and I'm guessing the tenants (if they bother), on the 9th September. It's some new process put in place by the courts to deal with possession claims. On the day, the judge will decide whether the case should proceed to a substantive hearing. We're being told as well that a settlement could be made on this day if the tenant agrees to a possession order then they won't be deemed to have made themselves homeless. I doubt the tenant will even be bothered to respond at all. Shame that this extra step has cost us another £400 though.
In the meantime, even though we have a managed payment setup with UC, we've not received a payment this month, so I'm guessing the tenant has worked their magic on the contract again and cancelled it.
vaud said:
How did it go?
We won't get to find out for a few weeks. My understanding is a judge will look at the case, and if he needs to he'll try and speak with our solicitor/the tenant. Once he's done that he'll take some time to make a decision on whether it should proceed, but we've told that could take 2-3 weeks.
dickymint said:
So there was no "telephone conversation" with a judge and your solicitor? 
Not in our case no. This step in the process is just a means to reduce the number of cases making it through to the court when maybe many of the cases are not ready for that stage yet. In our case, our solicitor is suggesting that the court have reviewed our case, and decided that they have no further questions and that it should proceed to court (maybe that suggests it could be a slam dunk for us? any issues and surely it would have been knocked back at this stage?).
We had to pay our solicitor an extra £300 for this. They had to prepare extra paperwork and make someone available yesterday to take a call from the court if there was a need to get further information or try to come to a resolution.
Not really an update, but I've had a call from a letting agent wanting a reference on the tenants.
I was truthful.
It does sound like the tenant was slagging us off to the letting agency, specifically telling them that we hadn't performed a gas safety check.
Obviously I've given the letting agent the correct story.
I was truthful.
It does sound like the tenant was slagging us off to the letting agency, specifically telling them that we hadn't performed a gas safety check.
Obviously I've given the letting agent the correct story.
Paft Dunk said:
@ OP
Any updates?
Still waiting for a court date.Any updates?
In the meantime we seem to be receiving random payments from Universal Credit. It looks like the tenants could be claiming individually as we seem to be receiving two rent payments, each for half of the rent and each under a different national insurance number.
Minor update.
A lady from the council has dropped off a letter with me this morning. The letter says that they're entering the property later this week to perform a formal inspection of the property to ascertain the existence of any Category 1 hazards.
They've asked for the police to be in attendance and have invited us along as well.
A lady from the council has dropped off a letter with me this morning. The letter says that they're entering the property later this week to perform a formal inspection of the property to ascertain the existence of any Category 1 hazards.
They've asked for the police to be in attendance and have invited us along as well.
ecsrobin said:
I would have thought for the tenants benefit?
Yeh, that's my understanding too.It's all come about because neighbours have been complaining to someone in the council about the state of the property. The window in the back door has been missing for about a year and it just has cardboard up, then they've been setting fire to rubbish in the back yards that keep requiring the attendance of the fire brigade as well.
The top and bottom of it is, that neighbouring properties want the eye-sour sorting out, and I don't blame them. As well as a window being smashed, the back yard is full of shopping trolleys and rubbish, which I guess will also be attracting rats too.
The lady that dropped the letter off is aware of the issues we've been having, and understands that we've been denied access to the property by the tenant.
monthou said:
If the council are asking the police to attend doesn't that suggest it's not at the tenants' request?
That's my thinking.This has all come about because of surrounding neighbours complaining about the property/tenants, and seeing as we can't seem to get access to the property, the council are going down this route.
We're in court in a couple of weeks anyway, so hopefully they'll be out soon. I'm just hoping that the council are on our side and don't force us to perform repairs in the property while the tenant is still there.
J6542 said:
Nearly a year since you started this thread OP. What a total s
t show, hope you get it sorted soon. So glad my mother sold her rentals before she got ill because dealing with something like this would finish her off.
The only good thing is, is that we've had rent for the last 4 month or so, which has at least covered some of the legal fees.t show, hope you get it sorted soon. So glad my mother sold her rentals before she got ill because dealing with something like this would finish her off.Surprise surprise, the tenant has contacted the council to say that this morning appointment was not convenient, so they've re-arranged for next week.
I've spoke with the lady at the council, and she's confirmed that this wasn't instigated by the tenant and that she's not looking to bring action against us as the landlord. Concerns have been raised by neighbours about the state of the property (smashed window, shopping trolleys in the hard, rubbish in the yard, and lighting fires), and there are also concerns that the tenant may be producing and dealing drugs from the property as well.
I have no doubt that next weeks appointment will get cancelled as well, but the lady at the council has said if she can't get access she'll ring me to drop a key off so she can enter herself with the police.
I've spoke with the lady at the council, and she's confirmed that this wasn't instigated by the tenant and that she's not looking to bring action against us as the landlord. Concerns have been raised by neighbours about the state of the property (smashed window, shopping trolleys in the hard, rubbish in the yard, and lighting fires), and there are also concerns that the tenant may be producing and dealing drugs from the property as well.
I have no doubt that next weeks appointment will get cancelled as well, but the lady at the council has said if she can't get access she'll ring me to drop a key off so she can enter herself with the police.
bennno said:
When you get them out, are you just planning a big skip and stick it up for sale cheaply.
Plan is to get someone out to clear the property. We'll review the damage and weigh up whether it's worth spending a few grand to get the property back to a reasonable state, or just sell it in the state it's in.Either way, we're selling it even though we'll be looking at a loss of £10-15k.
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