Tenant broken boiler, refusing me access to check it
Discussion
The_Nugget said:
That will just cause conflict and doubt would cast the Op in good light in the future if there were ever a court case.
OP, you need to make friends with a suitably qualified engineer!
If you post a bit more about the location, I bet there is someone on here that is qualified and would do it,,,
I'm pretty friendly with the engineer we've always used, so I have no problem seeing if he has time this week to do the cert and tell the tenant we'll be down to do it. She may allow him access, but she will refuse me any access. The problem is, given the threats in her email I'd want to accompany the engineer to be his witness just incase the boyfriend gets shirty with him or she makes something up about him sniffing her underwear. Which at that point she'll deny us both access.OP, you need to make friends with a suitably qualified engineer!
If you post a bit more about the location, I bet there is someone on here that is qualified and would do it,,,
At the minute we're going to hope they don't pay febs rent, and follow through with a section 8 giving them four weeks notice.
Black_S3 said:
Yup. OP needs to forget about inspecting the property and arrange a gas man on the brief that he does the safety check on the hob and fire before touching the boiler. If she plays silly buggers on access to any of the gas appliances he caps the gas at the meter. The priority for the OP should be getting a valid gas safety cert out of this situation so the b
h can’t use it as an angle to try block or delay an eviction.... she’s setting him right up and this will likely end up getting twisted into ‘he left us with a faulty boiler that hadn’t had its gas safety check, he wanted to fix it himself when he’s not gas safe and he refused to authorise the engineer we arranged’... even the way the OP has described the situation in this thread it does come across like his priority is inspecting the property rather than ensuring the boiler is safe and functional.
In my defence. I did say I would be telling the tenant that I'd arrange an engineer, but it went against all of the advice I'd received on here from people in the know, so I didn't.h can’t use it as an angle to try block or delay an eviction.... she’s setting him right up and this will likely end up getting twisted into ‘he left us with a faulty boiler that hadn’t had its gas safety check, he wanted to fix it himself when he’s not gas safe and he refused to authorise the engineer we arranged’... even the way the OP has described the situation in this thread it does come across like his priority is inspecting the property rather than ensuring the boiler is safe and functional.All I've been doing is trying to follow the advice given here as best I can.
Either way, if I arrange an engineer to fix the boiler, then I'll be attending with him as a witness and to provide some safeguarding for him, especially given the threats about her boyfriend.
Edited by TheBinarySheep on Sunday 10th January 11:57
One more question.
I'm going to speak with our usual engineer and ask if there's a day this week he can do a gas safety check and fix the boiler if it's not fixed by then. Firstly, is this a good idea?
Secondly, for safety reasons can I tell the tenant that I'll be attending with the engineer and if they refuse me access then the engineer doesn't get access as I'd be concerned for his safety given that she's shown herself to be unstable and we suspect that the partner is abusive. I don't want to risk sending an engineer into that on his own. Or do I just tell the engineer to go on his own? Can I suggest to the tenant that the engineer fixes the boiler, does a safety check and performs a property inspection at the same time, on his own?
I won't be doing anything until I've spoke with the council in the morning, but just wanted to get some further advice first before I do anything else.
or do I stick to my guns?
I'm going to speak with our usual engineer and ask if there's a day this week he can do a gas safety check and fix the boiler if it's not fixed by then. Firstly, is this a good idea?
Secondly, for safety reasons can I tell the tenant that I'll be attending with the engineer and if they refuse me access then the engineer doesn't get access as I'd be concerned for his safety given that she's shown herself to be unstable and we suspect that the partner is abusive. I don't want to risk sending an engineer into that on his own. Or do I just tell the engineer to go on his own? Can I suggest to the tenant that the engineer fixes the boiler, does a safety check and performs a property inspection at the same time, on his own?
I won't be doing anything until I've spoke with the council in the morning, but just wanted to get some further advice first before I do anything else.
or do I stick to my guns?
scottdm3 said:
RE the gas safety check
What gas appliances are in the property?
Boiler, hob, cooker, fire?
Does the boiler flue go through the wall or out through the roof?
Fingers crossed you just have a hob and boiler. The gas safety check can be done at the same time as the repair and they will be none the wiser until you present the paperwork
There's a combo boiler, gas fire and gas hob. Boiler has a flu that goes through the wall and outside.What gas appliances are in the property?
Boiler, hob, cooker, fire?
Does the boiler flue go through the wall or out through the roof?
Fingers crossed you just have a hob and boiler. The gas safety check can be done at the same time as the repair and they will be none the wiser until you present the paperwork
Boiler is upstairs, hob in the kitchen and gas fire in the living room. So the engineer will need access to the whole house.
Edited by TheBinarySheep on Sunday 10th January 12:53
craig_m67 said:
What a Palaver,
Lots of advice on here. I’m not a UK resident, so not in anyway qualified to comment.
But, why do you seem so adamant you need to inspect the property?
This seems to be the crux of the (current) matter
The whole tenancy seems to be a loss, and you have said you and your wife are currently stressed and anxious. What benefit will going and seeing the mess/boiler create for you ?
Just send an engineer round, get the safety certificate if you can prior to the repairs (seems to be important for UK eviction). Then initiate whatever it takes to get her(them) out. You’re a landlord, not a family member looking after her.. try and remove yourself personally from the business and get it finished.
Is there some mechanism to get the property back other than kicking them out for not paying rent. What if you legitimately wanted to move-in, renovate or sell the, would you still have to evict in the UK? (Genuine question)
It's not that I want to do an inspection. She's reported a problem with her boiler that I may be able to fix , I've suggested I go and check the boiler over, do the basics and then book an engineer if one is required. She's point blank refused.Lots of advice on here. I’m not a UK resident, so not in anyway qualified to comment.
But, why do you seem so adamant you need to inspect the property?
This seems to be the crux of the (current) matter
The whole tenancy seems to be a loss, and you have said you and your wife are currently stressed and anxious. What benefit will going and seeing the mess/boiler create for you ?
Just send an engineer round, get the safety certificate if you can prior to the repairs (seems to be important for UK eviction). Then initiate whatever it takes to get her(them) out. You’re a landlord, not a family member looking after her.. try and remove yourself personally from the business and get it finished.
Is there some mechanism to get the property back other than kicking them out for not paying rent. What if you legitimately wanted to move-in, renovate or sell the, would you still have to evict in the UK? (Genuine question)
When they took the tenancy on, I specifically states that we would give them time to settle in and would perform an inspection just to make sure both the tenants and ourselves are happy with the condition of the property. From that day forward she's done nothing but put obstacles in the way of us doing this.
If we wanted to property back to move into it, decorate etc then we'd have to raise a section 8 and specify the reason for wanting the property back.
Wings said:
Tenant needs to e in arrears for 6 months or over before a Section 8 Notice can be served for 4 weeks.
Only a Court can grant repossession of a tenanted residential property, therefore Section 8 and Section 21 Notices must considered as they really are, a notification y the landlord/agent, that it is the landlord's intention to seek possession of the property. That does not mean that a landlord/agent has to proceed to court for repossession. I myself have used such Notices to encourage tenants to settle rent arrears, stop anti social behaviour etc. etc. In fact I still have tenants in to their 15th year of tenancy, that I served on them a Section 21 in their first year of tenancy.
In order to serve any Notice, you will have had to serve the tenants with the following documents and I quote again "Apart from the Deposit monies being protected, at the start of any Tenancy Agreement, the tenant/s should receive a copy of the EPC, Gas Safety Certificate, HMG's How to Rent leaflet, and since June 2020 a copy of the Electrical Safety Certificate". To avoid any dispute by the tenant of receiving these documents, then I would attach copies of the same to any Notice served on the tenant.
As for the Annual Gas Safety Certificate, a landlord/agent only has to make a reasonable effort to gain access to the property, from what you have posted, excuses etc. from the tenant refusing access, then I believe you have covered the reasonable request for access criteria.
It is the responsibility of the landlord to have the boiler repaired, and i would recommend arranging your own engineer to both repair the boiler, and at the same time serve you with a Gas Safety Certificate. Use your engineer's appointment, for you yourself to carry out an inspection of the property. To that end I would notify the tenant that you and your engineer will require access on XXXXXX, and if either of you are refused entry, then you will immediately apply to the Courts for access, and will also seek your legal costs for doing the same from the tenant.
The vast majority repossession court proceedings fail, due to either Section 8 or Section 21 Notices being wrongly completed, therefore I would strongly recommend finding a local solicitor, taking the Tenancy Agreement, above documents and all communications between you and the tenant.
This is not going to end well for you OP, the quicker you obtain legal advice, gain entry, serve Notice/s, the less financial damage you might suffer.
Thanks Wings. Do I attend with the engineer knowing that they won't let me go in, or do I just send the engineer on his own?Only a Court can grant repossession of a tenanted residential property, therefore Section 8 and Section 21 Notices must considered as they really are, a notification y the landlord/agent, that it is the landlord's intention to seek possession of the property. That does not mean that a landlord/agent has to proceed to court for repossession. I myself have used such Notices to encourage tenants to settle rent arrears, stop anti social behaviour etc. etc. In fact I still have tenants in to their 15th year of tenancy, that I served on them a Section 21 in their first year of tenancy.
In order to serve any Notice, you will have had to serve the tenants with the following documents and I quote again "Apart from the Deposit monies being protected, at the start of any Tenancy Agreement, the tenant/s should receive a copy of the EPC, Gas Safety Certificate, HMG's How to Rent leaflet, and since June 2020 a copy of the Electrical Safety Certificate". To avoid any dispute by the tenant of receiving these documents, then I would attach copies of the same to any Notice served on the tenant.
As for the Annual Gas Safety Certificate, a landlord/agent only has to make a reasonable effort to gain access to the property, from what you have posted, excuses etc. from the tenant refusing access, then I believe you have covered the reasonable request for access criteria.
It is the responsibility of the landlord to have the boiler repaired, and i would recommend arranging your own engineer to both repair the boiler, and at the same time serve you with a Gas Safety Certificate. Use your engineer's appointment, for you yourself to carry out an inspection of the property. To that end I would notify the tenant that you and your engineer will require access on XXXXXX, and if either of you are refused entry, then you will immediately apply to the Courts for access, and will also seek your legal costs for doing the same from the tenant.
The vast majority repossession court proceedings fail, due to either Section 8 or Section 21 Notices being wrongly completed, therefore I would strongly recommend finding a local solicitor, taking the Tenancy Agreement, above documents and all communications between you and the tenant.
This is not going to end well for you OP, the quicker you obtain legal advice, gain entry, serve Notice/s, the less financial damage you might suffer.
I've put together this email, I've not sent it yet. Does it sound ok?
"
I’m notifying you that I have arranged for an engineer to attend on Thursday 14th January 2021 between the hours of 9am and 12pm to fix your boiler, service the boiler and perform a gas safety check. The engineer will require access to the boiler in the rear bedroom, the bathroom (to access hot water taps), the gas fire in the living room and the gas hob in the kitchen.
Should you refuse either myself or the engineer access to the property, we will immediately apply to the courts for access and will seek costs from doing so from yourselves.
"
"
I’m notifying you that I have arranged for an engineer to attend on Thursday 14th January 2021 between the hours of 9am and 12pm to fix your boiler, service the boiler and perform a gas safety check. The engineer will require access to the boiler in the rear bedroom, the bathroom (to access hot water taps), the gas fire in the living room and the gas hob in the kitchen.
Should you refuse either myself or the engineer access to the property, we will immediately apply to the courts for access and will seek costs from doing so from yourselves.
"
bobbysmithy said:
Nonsense
They don’t give a st about courts
These people live on a different planet to you and I
She doesn’t have money for a start
I get that, but the email reflects what Wings has suggested I do.They don’t give a s
t about courts These people live on a different planet to you and I
She doesn’t have money for a start
I'm getting a lot of conflicting advice and I'm finding it difficult knowing which to take onboard without peeing people off and coming across ungrateful.
Tankrizzo said:
We all know this "cousin" doesn't exist, there will be random fist-shaped holes knocked in the walls and generally three inches of detritus on every floor in a filthy house. Most likely a small cannabis factory in a spare room and empty cans of Tennent's Super everywhere.
However you have to play the game, as scumbags know every trick in the book.
This, there is no cousin, they have no family locally. My understanding is that the nearest family is about 30 mile away. Plus, she said she's just come out of hospital, doesn't have the energy to tidy up but has the energy to look after her cousin who's been transported 30 mile during lock down to be looked after by a woman with mental issues and an abusive partner. That poor kids must have some cracking parents.However you have to play the game, as scumbags know every trick in the book.
Mark V GTD said:
I have every sympathy with the OP on this - but the entire thread was started on the basis of the incumbent's declaration of a failed boiler. It may not have failed at all and even if there is a problem with the heating system there could be any one of many causes including a simple thermostat failure. Many of which do not require any attention to the boiler or anything to do with gas.
I drove past earlier. There's nothing coming from the flu and most windows are covered in condensation which suggests that the boiler isn't working. Response from the tenant
"we have had the boiler fixed and are more then happy for a gorgi registered engineer to come and do the gas safety checks is not a problem with proof i.d etc on the date and time of you choice but yourself we will have to arrange another day for you to do your inspection with the government lockdown rules etc in place so we will see the engineer on the 14th "
So now I can't attend because of government lockdown rules.
"we have had the boiler fixed and are more then happy for a gorgi registered engineer to come and do the gas safety checks is not a problem with proof i.d etc on the date and time of you choice but yourself we will have to arrange another day for you to do your inspection with the government lockdown rules etc in place so we will see the engineer on the 14th "
So now I can't attend because of government lockdown rules.
Fckitdriveon said:
Yet more delay tactics......
I don't know what say. I want to tell her that I'll be wearing a mask and following guidelines, see you thursday. or that only one of us will enter the property at a time.Alternatively, I could tell her that the engineer will perform the inspection on my behalf but then she'll hit to roof.
Or, I let the gas cert go ahead without me.
craig_m67 said:
1. The boiler is fixed
2. She is allowing an engineer access at a time that suits, to do the safety certificate
I still don’t understand why you feel the need to attend/inspect, what do you hope to achieve?
I don't know what I'm trying to achieve. I've told her, if she denies me or the engineer access I will seek to get a court order. Now I'm going back on that and saying ok, the engineer can attend.2. She is allowing an engineer access at a time that suits, to do the safety certificate
I still don’t understand why you feel the need to attend/inspect, what do you hope to achieve?
whatxd said:
You being there solves nothing. She obviously doesn't want you there and insisting on it is causing more problems than it's solving. She says the boiler is fixed, that's one problem solved. She says you can arrange for the gas safety check. Maybe that will go ahead, maybe she'll change her mind, but at least it is progress.
To put it bluntly, these people sound like degenerates and the house is a liability that will only attract more degenerates and similar headaches in the future.
Right now, your only priority should be to get the gas certificate so that the paperwork is in place and every box can be ticked off, otherwise this will drag on for a long time. Do or say whatever it takes to get everything in place so you can serve them their notice and ultimately put this whole thing behind you by offloading this property. That should be the goal, in the interim, let them think they've "won" by conceding and not going, it doesn't matter. All that matters here is getting them out.
I've told the engineer to go without me, but I've not told the tenant just yet.To put it bluntly, these people sound like degenerates and the house is a liability that will only attract more degenerates and similar headaches in the future.
Right now, your only priority should be to get the gas certificate so that the paperwork is in place and every box can be ticked off, otherwise this will drag on for a long time. Do or say whatever it takes to get everything in place so you can serve them their notice and ultimately put this whole thing behind you by offloading this property. That should be the goal, in the interim, let them think they've "won" by conceding and not going, it doesn't matter. All that matters here is getting them out.
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