Wonky old Georgian townhouse

Wonky old Georgian townhouse

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seiben

Original Poster:

2,350 posts

136 months

Thursday 11th July 2019
quotequote all
Goldenballs92 said:
seiben said:
I'll get some close-ups of this as it's remarkably effective in reducing both drafts and rattles.
If you could, that would be great! Do you also have any comments on the sound reduction with the draught excluders? I know single glazing isn’t exactly the DBs when it comes to sound insulation, but am interested in the results.
Turns out these are quite difficult to photograph hehe

Draft excluder is used on the inside and outside of each sash casement, which goes some way to prevent drafts and (more importantly) rattles:



The lower (inner) casement also has a groove routed across the top, facing outward, with some thicker draft excluder inserted. This effectively seals the top of the bottom casement (outer face) against the bottom of the top casement (inner face) when the windows are shut. Got that? biggrin


(photo taken looking down at the top of the bottom casement. Ok I'll stop trying to explain now. Perhaps I'll try and get some better pics.....)

seiben

Original Poster:

2,350 posts

136 months

Thursday 11th July 2019
quotequote all
Minor progress update on other stuff...

We've had an electrician in working through a growing list of odds and sods - most of the rooms only have one or two single sockets, removing some old electric heaters, moving wall lights etc. He's pulled a couple of floorboards up, so I took the opportunity to have a quick poke around.

This is the top floor - fascinating in that there is effectively a double size void. The floor is suspended on joists, then there are some cross joists, and then another layer of joists upon which the first floor ceiling is suspended. Yuo can also (just about) see how the brickwork is staggered, meaning the wall is thicker on the first floor than it is above - it's certainly a solid old place!

2019-07-11_08-36-31 by Ben Edwards, on Flickr

The first floor is much more along the lines of what you'd expect - one layer of joists supporting both floor and ceiling (you can just about see the lathe under years of crud)

2019-07-11_08-36-54 by Ben Edwards, on Flickr

Also, remember that fireplace?

Well, the chimney has been uncapped and unblocked. It is startlingly massive up there!





Not sure what those pipes are, but the chimney backs onto what was presumably the kitchen (before it was turned unto the Lobby Of Pointlessness). I'm guessing it's the old water system.

The chimney has been pressure tested and just about scraped a pass at modern acceptable levels. I'm yet to pluck up the courage to light a small fire under it to see what happens hehe


Meanwhile, I'm almost done painting windows......

dhutch

14,407 posts

199 months

Thursday 11th July 2019
quotequote all
seiben said:
Minor progress update on other stuff...

We've had an electrician in working through a growing list of odds and sods - most of the rooms only have one or two single sockets, removing some old electric heaters, moving wall lights etc. He's pulled a couple of floorboards up, so I took the opportunity to have a quick poke around.

This is the top floor - fascinating in that there is effectively a double size void. The floor is suspended on joists, then there are some cross joists, and then another layer of joists upon which the first floor ceiling is suspended. Yuo can also (just about) see how the brickwork is staggered, meaning the wall is thicker on the first floor than it is above - it's certainly a solid old place!


The first floor is much more along the lines of what you'd expect - one layer of joists supporting both floor and ceiling (you can just about see the lathe under years of crud)


Also, remember that fireplace?
Well, the chimney has been uncapped and unblocked. It is startlingly massive up there!

Not sure what those pipes are, but the chimney backs onto what was presumably the kitchen (before it was turned unto the Lobby Of Pointlessness). I'm guessing it's the old water system.

The chimney has been pressure tested and just about scraped a pass at modern acceptable levels. I'm yet to pluck up the courage to light a small fire under it to see what happens hehe


Meanwhile, I'm almost done painting windows......
Looking good.

Whats the wiring like? We where one 1965 imperial pvc, ring main was 4t from the wall with a junction box to each socket, and no earth in the lighting, again only a couple of single ivorine sockets and a single light and switch per room, so we bit the bullet and had the lot rewired to a high modern spec. Its due to be ours for 40+ years on the life-plan and its now done.

Some of the voids in our house a very big and 2-3 joints stacked too. We're only two story, but the hall ceiling is 4" below the two main reception rooms, and the kitchen 6-8" below that, with the first floor bathrooms (over the kitchen) 6-8inch below the rest of the first floor. The reception rooms are also 6m spans which calls for large joists, so in places where you have a bedroom straddling both a reception room and the kitchen the latter half has enough space to get a small family in hiding, yet where its over the end of the hall, the landing in front of the bathrooms only as 4" between the lath ceiling and the floorboards.

Old chimneys are ace arnt then, you wont have any issues with draw there. Get yourself a fire lit, and make sure you have a chimney sheep ready before we go into heating season. They will custom make to any size for no extra cost just the same cost per area as standard, standard sizes are in stock and next day, custom ones batched out on wednesdays.

The pipes will be for a back boiler I expect, retro fitted so run up the flue not up a second void in the brick along side, almost certainly not in use anymore and if so will cause no issues there, but worth to check when doing a plumbing audit in case once you it all ends wet up on your floor!


Must do a thread myself. Partners flat is due to complete today so we have fund to do a few more of the things on the list!


Daniel

seiben

Original Poster:

2,350 posts

136 months

Thursday 11th July 2019
quotequote all
dhutch said:
ooking good.

Whats the wiring like? We where one 1965 imperial pvc, ring main was 4t from the wall with a junction box to each socket, and no earth in the lighting, again only a couple of single ivorine sockets and a single light and switch per room, so we bit the bullet and had the lot rewired to a high modern spec. Its due to be ours for 40+ years on the life-plan and its now done.

Some of the voids in our house a very big and 2-3 joints stacked too. We're only two story, but the hall ceiling is 4" below the two main reception rooms, and the kitchen 6-8" below that, with the first floor bathrooms (over the kitchen) 6-8inch below the rest of the first floor. The reception rooms are also 6m spans which calls for large joists, so in places where you have a bedroom straddling both a reception room and the kitchen the latter half has enough space to get a small family in hiding, yet where its over the end of the hall, the landing in front of the bathrooms only as 4" between the lath ceiling and the floorboards.

Old chimneys are ace arnt then, you wont have any issues with draw there. Get yourself a fire lit, and make sure you have a chimney sheep ready before we go into heating season. They will custom make to any size for no extra cost just the same cost per area as standard, standard sizes are in stock and next day, custom ones batched out on wednesdays.

The pipes will be for a back boiler I expect, retro fitted so run up the flue not up a second void in the brick along side, almost certainly not in use anymore and if so will cause no issues there, but worth to check when doing a plumbing audit in case once you it all ends wet up on your floor!


Must do a thread myself. Partners flat is due to complete today so we have fund to do a few more of the things on the list!


Daniel
Thanks Daniel. Wiring was described by the sparky as 'a damn sight better than I thought it would be' - essentially, his advice for the main house is to leave well alone, which I'm more than happy with. Bit of a result there really.

I'll have a measure up and get a chimney sheep on order! Please do get a thread up, your place sounds very intriguing smile


While I'm here, have another batch of photos I meant to put up a while ago - the garden. As a reminder, here it is viewed from the roof (a few weeks back):



This is as it currently stands - taken from roughly the corner of where the garage used to be:

Looking down towards the back wall and road (note, shonky new fence)


...and a 90 degree left turn towards the shed, and steps up to the house:


Down at the bottom of the garden, looking up towards the house. Under the weedliner is the biggest collection of bindweed you've ever seen. Girl has been drunk ebaying all sorts of nasty weedkillers and has since set to - the idea being we'll grass seed this bit to give us more lawn space, as it't pretty much the last bit of the garden to get sun in the evening:


General state of things at present. Not too bad, but still needing a fair amount of tidying (for scale, that brick wall is about 10 feet high)


Steps leading back up to the small top garden at the back of the house:


We've already removed three fir trees and cut a fair amount back, but there's more to do. Various family members are being pressed into gardening duty over the next few weeks to get it back under control, so it'll remain largely unchanged while we focus on the house smile


Chubbyross

4,562 posts

87 months

Thursday 11th July 2019
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I’ve just seen this thread and wish you well with the project. I did something similar in London. We were living in a beautiful new build three-bedroom apartment in central London. Then the children came along and we hankered after something bigger, older and with more character. We eventually found a five-bedroom Georgian townhouse in North London. It ticked all the boxes: enough bedrooms for all of us, plus spares for guests, big garden and a quiet street. However, as lovely as the house is, moving from a new build to a 200-year-old house has been an eye opener. There’s never a day goes by when something doesn’t stop working, falls off, cracks or breaks. The house is experiencing major subsidence (alas, built on London clay that’s dessicating due to hotter and drier weather) and major underpinning is now necessary - before anyone jumps in saying we should have had a more thorough survey we spent many, many thousands getting opinions from surveyors and structural engineers before jumping in. It’s just one of those things.

Do I regret the purchase? No, as it’s the perfect place to bring up a family. But I do miss the carefree living a new build property allows. My next home will be new and away from trees and preferably on firmer ground. Old properties are money pits but if you go into a project like this with that awareness and a willingness to spend continuously then you should be fine.

Once again, best of luck with the project. It looks a stunning home.

seiben

Original Poster:

2,350 posts

136 months

Thursday 11th July 2019
quotequote all
Thanks Ross. This is our third period house (build dates for the previous two being approx 1650 and 1840 respectively) so I'm not completely unfamiliar with living in, heating and maintaining old houses - that said, the scale compared to our last place is pretty daunting at times. I'm absolutely certain it's going to throw up some unexpected issues smile

Chubbyross

4,562 posts

87 months

Thursday 11th July 2019
quotequote all
seiben said:
Thanks Ross. This is our third period house (build dates for the previous two being approx 1650 and 1840 respectively) so I'm not completely unfamiliar with living in, heating and maintaining old houses - that said, the scale compared to our last place is pretty daunting at times. I'm absolutely certain it's going to throw up some unexpected issues smile
It looks amazing. I have serious garage envy! Central London isn’t great for car storage.

seiben

Original Poster:

2,350 posts

136 months

Tuesday 30th July 2019
quotequote all
Well here's a turn up for the books, courtesy of the council records office. These are from 1942 (7 years before the house was listed):







I've been ummng and ahhing about how to repaint the front door, and I rather like the black-on-white effect here. Also good to know the ugly concrete wall has some bricks underneath...

Can anyone identify the triffid growing up the front of the house? Virginia creeper?

Mr Pointy

11,367 posts

161 months

Tuesday 30th July 2019
quotequote all
seiben said:
Can anyone identify the triffid growing up the front of the house? Virginia creeper?
Maybe Wisteria?

seiben

Original Poster:

2,350 posts

136 months

Wednesday 7th August 2019
quotequote all
We’re starting the next big project in a few weeks’ time – namely, a complete rip and replace of the entire heating system. We knew this needed doing when we bought the place and budgeted accordingly, but we’re still coming to terms with actually paying for it!

The existing heating is delivered by an ancient Potterton boiler through a single-pipe steel system to an array of under-spec’d radiators. It’s also located in the kitchen, which a) we would like to rebuild at some point and b) is miles away from either of the bathrooms. And it smells faintly of gas every time it fires up, which is pretty alarming hehe

Having spoken to various firms we’ve settled with a local-ish company who have good reviews (both online and from friends who have used them) and – following some learned wisdom from Harry F’s thread – are easily contactable via email, whatsapp etc. Even better, they have an office manager/PM who will organise the other trades during the project – we need a new watermain as part of this, and a wall taking out… oh, and a complete new bathroom as well. The new boiler and water cylinder are going in the storage room up on the 2nd floor, pretty much every room is getting (a) new radiator(s) (some actually new, others will be moved/repurposed as necessary). We’re going to have to be staying with the in-laws for a couple of weeks while there’s no water, but we’re having a temporary shower fitted in the 2nd floor bathroom so we can use that as soon as the new boiler is in, up and running, as tiling/second fit in the main bathroom is likely to take a while. I’m hoping it’ll be up and running by October. We’ll see.

We’ve also collected a frankly horrifying amount of stuff for the new bathroom – tiles, toilet, sink, shower tray, shower, towel rail, radiator etc. The library is something of a dumping ground at the moment….



Designing a room completely from scratch is a new concept for us, so I hope it comes out well… you can all be the judges sooner or later! A lot of this stuff we’ve had to buy new, but I did manage to bag an ebay bargain roll-top bath that was in need of a tidy up. This got a rub down, prime, paint and lacquer in the garden to tidy it up. I got some slightly odd looks from the neighbours hehe





Everybody needs a British Racing Green bath, right? This is what happens when we’re allowed to design stuff.

Adding to the DIY bathroom element, we picked up an old chest of drawers in need of some gentle tidying up. This is going to have a flat-bottom sink installed on top (something we did in our previous house to good effect), but required some drawer fettling to make sure there’s space for the sink drainage, plus a bit of bracing to strengthen the top. I’ll give it a gentle sand down and seal the wood before it’s installed.







With all this going I’ve been reluctant to start any serious decoration, on the basis that the plumbing work is going to be both messy and invasive, so any other work done had to be fairly minor. The electrician finished scattering more sockets around the house and removed the light-switch wiring from the pointless hallway cupboard. I couldn’t resist giving it a gentle poke with a screwdriver to see what the hollow-sounding wall was made of…



…which turned into a slightly bigger poke…



…interesting. I paused for approximately three seconds to consider whether this ugly beige panelling was of Important Historical Significance before deciding that it wasn’t, that it was even uglier than the plywood covering it, and that the space would be far better suited as the original open landing. So…





In fairness to whoever put it in, it came out with no damage to any of the surrounding fabric – all we need is to strip off the wallpaper, give a quick skim of the plaster and we’re away. It’s made a massive difference to the atmosphere of the landing as well – it’s so much lighter through the whole floor now, and I’m really starting to picture what it’ll look like with the built-in cupboard taken out, the carpets taken up and the lovely old floorboards brought back to life. I even got a bonus newspaper article from under the carpet – anyone care to guess the date? biggrin



So apologies for another fairly lacklustre update – I’m hoping for some more exciting ones soon!

outnumbered

4,131 posts

236 months

Wednesday 7th August 2019
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Good update. It's certainly impressively wonky !

ralphrj

3,547 posts

193 months

Thursday 8th August 2019
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seiben said:
I even got a bonus newspaper article from under the carpet – anyone care to guess the date? biggrin

13th May 1991?

seiben

Original Poster:

2,350 posts

136 months

Thursday 8th August 2019
quotequote all
Close! biggrin


seiben

Original Poster:

2,350 posts

136 months

Wednesday 21st August 2019
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I believe this is known as the point of no return...


S100HP

12,763 posts

169 months

Wednesday 21st August 2019
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What a lovely house OP. In for the rest of the thread.

seiben

Original Poster:

2,350 posts

136 months

Friday 23rd August 2019
quotequote all
The plumbers have been working like troopers all week, and we’ve popped back to the house once or twice to check up on progress, take some photos and have a general nosey around.

A few pics of the work so far…

We’ve used a mixed approach with the radiators – I would have loved to have interesting cast rads throughout the house but practicality (and cost!) means we’ve used a mix of new, modern, boring units, new interesting units, and recycled some of the existing ones.

New rads in some of the spare bedrooms:





A nice cast-iron-alike in our bedroom (note more floor wonk):



We’ve repurposed the semi-interesting rads from the sitting room, and these have gone in the window recesses in the room above (which will be our dressing room). I’m going to pull them out over the weekend and give them a coat of paint:



The boiler room on the top floor has now been stripped of its three (three!!) water tanks, and a mains feed and gas feed have been fed up to it. This will house the boiler, water cylinder and shower pump for the Aqualisa shower going in the main bathroom below, and should have plenty of room left over for shelving so we can use it as an airing cupboard. Given it’s about 2m from the hot water tank I’m hoping we’ll have a hot shower in the morning in a matter of seconds…



It’s been fascinating wandering around the house with all of the carpets up. The old floorboards are in remarkably good nick throughout, so once we’re done using the carpets as fitted dustsheets these will be secured properly, sanded and oiled/varnished in the hallway, landing and a few of the rooms. Looks like we’ve also found a fireplace lurking behind where one of the old rads was situated, so I’ll have a dig around at some point and see what I can find…



First floor landing will definitely be getting exposed floorboards:



There’s been a fascinating array of old newspaper laid under the carpets. In addition to an entire Daily Telegraph from 1966 we have a couple of 90s hatchback ads:





We’ve also taken delivery of my two favourite rads. These are going in the library and are ridiculously over-the-top and I don’t care hehe . Sneak peak…



pistolpete12

422 posts

155 months

Wednesday 11th September 2019
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finished all this yet?

21st Century Man

41,097 posts

250 months

Wednesday 11th September 2019
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Love the rads!

judas

6,000 posts

261 months

Wednesday 11th September 2019
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21st Century Man said:
Love the rads!
Yeah, I'm so jealous hehe

Wanted one of these for our library but there's no space for it without moving the piano, which brings a whole new set of problems.

seiben

Original Poster:

2,350 posts

136 months

Wednesday 11th September 2019
quotequote all
Thanks for the kind words, folks!

pistolpete12 said:
finished all this yet?
Not even slightly hehe

It’s fair to say we’re right in the thick of it at the moment, and – as with all old houses – we’ve had our fair share of unsurprising surprises!

The good news – remember those rads? Well they’re in along with some suitable steampunk-esque valves which are equally ridiculous biggrin



We’ve also recycled a few existing rads and given them a lick of paint (again, not for everyone but I’m really pleased with how they came out)

From:


To…


And the heating install is effectively done (minus the bathroom towel rails) – so we have heating! And hot water! The boiler room is going to make an excellent airing cupboard as well, so it’ll be getting a load of shelves at some point in the future.



The bathroom itself has been giving us a few headaches, however. As expected, removal of the (concrete!) wall between the toilet and the rest of the bathroom brought down a fair amount of ceiling plaster. It’s all old lathe-and-plaster, and upon advice from our builder (who is called Mick, of indeterminate age, deaf as a post and absolutely brilliant in every way) and reading a few horror stories about the damage caused by lathe-and-plaster ceilings coming down, we elected to pull the whole thing down and start again.





This lead to the next couple of headaches – woodworm and rot! Mick has replaced a number of woodwormy joists, and we’ve had to get the whole house treated to avoid any further infestation. Here’s what the hungry little beggars have been up to…



Little sods.

And the rot? Well, the toilet was always at a bit of a jaunty angle, and pulling up the floor revealed why yikes



(New soil pipe being fitted to rotate the bog 90 degrees to make the most of the new space)

Oh, and a load of the wall plaster had blown as well…



The room has now been plasterboarded, plastered, and we’ve painted the bits that won’t be tiled (this is the first undercoat going on, hence the weird slightly pink colour) and the tiler will start imminently. Just getting the rollers out was a bit of a milestone for us, even though we’re a long way from finishing anything hehe



That pile of rubbish got a bit out of hand….



…but we had a very pleasant evening burning through that pile of old lathes!





Edited by seiben on Thursday 12th September 12:54