Aluminium windows - your opinion on this finish please....
Discussion
Well... is that beading I see on the outside? Bit of a security no no.
You will always have mastic... but they should either cover it with plastic trim the same colour as the frames.... or at least use mastic the same colour as the frame.
Oh and of course the slight matter of not allowing a 7 year old to apply it.
You will always have mastic... but they should either cover it with plastic trim the same colour as the frames.... or at least use mastic the same colour as the frame.
Oh and of course the slight matter of not allowing a 7 year old to apply it.
Edited by Sir Bagalot on Friday 5th October 14:58
Sir Bagalot said:
Well... is that beading I see on the outside? Bit of a security no no.
You will always have mastic... but they should either cover it with plastic trim the same colour as the frames.... or at least use mastic the same colour as the frame.
External beading not really an issue - many aluminium windows are externally beaded and can achieve Secured By Design status. Depends on manufacturer. You will always have mastic... but they should either cover it with plastic trim the same colour as the frames.... or at least use mastic the same colour as the frame.
Mastic finish is s
te to be honest (although the left hand looks much better than right). A bigger bead may look better as it wouldn't follow the line of the bricks as much. Edited by vescaegg on Friday 5th October 15:08
The windows that were 'flush' to the brickwork they put a wood trim on to hide the mastik.
The windows where they were sunken to the brickwork they did not (because there is no easy way of doing it to leave it looking nice, so they just left it).
The windows are screwed in on the inside of the frame with big bolts. The mastik was used to fill in the gaps.
The windows where they were sunken to the brickwork they did not (because there is no easy way of doing it to leave it looking nice, so they just left it).
The windows are screwed in on the inside of the frame with big bolts. The mastik was used to fill in the gaps.
This is really helpful. Thank you for your comments it is exactly how I feel and I needed to sense check.
The windows themselves, ie the product - are fantastic.
The finish and attention to detail is what I have a serious issue with.
They were &*^%$£ expensive! I can't really indicate a price as we have a 'wall' of sliding doors in one room, 2 external doors onto decking and 14 windows as well as fascia and soffit. Some were done as single jobs last year and earlier this year because they were so big.
The trouble is, we have witheld a tiny part of the payment asked them to propose a solution - which they cannot come up with an adequate response other than jamming it all up with wood trim.
Our 2 builders have suggested getting the house rendered would sort it as it can be corner beaded over the mastik. So, we have brought forward our rendering from next spring to now..... My husband wants to withold a couple of hundred pounds (out of around £35k as they had fascia and soffit work from us too!) - only until the rendering is done and if it resolves it (which it probably will) then we pay them the balance.
Their response to this is
"You don't go to Sainsbury's and get credit" (to which I said well Sainsburys sell you a product you can see and touch, unlike a deposit for a window in a brochure - utterly irrelevant and quite arrogant as we are not asking for credit and if they finished the job properly to a high standard we would not be in this position)
"It's easy to criticise another person's work" (4 independent building professionals have viewed the work and give their opinion, everyone has said it is a poor finish)
"We gave you a discount because of the amount of work you had done" (irrelevant, I stil expect it to be finished to a reasonable standard).
"We have waited since August (the end of August)" (I have had to research, understand and collect quotes from renderers... as well as other window companies so that I get a feel if my reaction is reasonable).
These are the two doors they did separately - they put trim on them to hide the mastik (after I had asked them, not because they were proud of their finish)... even that trim is not done very well and stuck on with yet more mastik as an afterthought.
The windows themselves, ie the product - are fantastic.
The finish and attention to detail is what I have a serious issue with.
They were &*^%$£ expensive! I can't really indicate a price as we have a 'wall' of sliding doors in one room, 2 external doors onto decking and 14 windows as well as fascia and soffit. Some were done as single jobs last year and earlier this year because they were so big.
The trouble is, we have witheld a tiny part of the payment asked them to propose a solution - which they cannot come up with an adequate response other than jamming it all up with wood trim.
Our 2 builders have suggested getting the house rendered would sort it as it can be corner beaded over the mastik. So, we have brought forward our rendering from next spring to now..... My husband wants to withold a couple of hundred pounds (out of around £35k as they had fascia and soffit work from us too!) - only until the rendering is done and if it resolves it (which it probably will) then we pay them the balance.
Their response to this is
"You don't go to Sainsbury's and get credit" (to which I said well Sainsburys sell you a product you can see and touch, unlike a deposit for a window in a brochure - utterly irrelevant and quite arrogant as we are not asking for credit and if they finished the job properly to a high standard we would not be in this position)
"It's easy to criticise another person's work" (4 independent building professionals have viewed the work and give their opinion, everyone has said it is a poor finish)
"We gave you a discount because of the amount of work you had done" (irrelevant, I stil expect it to be finished to a reasonable standard).
"We have waited since August (the end of August)" (I have had to research, understand and collect quotes from renderers... as well as other window companies so that I get a feel if my reaction is reasonable).
These are the two doors they did separately - they put trim on them to hide the mastik (after I had asked them, not because they were proud of their finish)... even that trim is not done very well and stuck on with yet more mastik as an afterthought.
If you are not happy with the finish hold a reasonable sum of money until you are.
Despite it being a small niggle on a reletively large sum it's still something that would get my back up.
If they refuse to come back write to them asking them to 'formally' and give them reasonable time to in the letter or you will go elsewhere to fix and use the held money to pay for the alternative work. You will have 0% chance of them coming back if they have all the money and id almost guarantee they havent paid their supplier for the materials uet anyway. So many fkwits out there who take people's money, do a ste job and then are never heard from again.
Did you happen to form any sort of written contract?
Despite it being a small niggle on a reletively large sum it's still something that would get my back up.
If they refuse to come back write to them asking them to 'formally' and give them reasonable time to in the letter or you will go elsewhere to fix and use the held money to pay for the alternative work. You will have 0% chance of them coming back if they have all the money and id almost guarantee they havent paid their supplier for the materials uet anyway. So many f
kwits out there who take people's money, do a ste job and then are never heard from again. Did you happen to form any sort of written contract?
Edited by vescaegg on Friday 5th October 16:46
Edited by vescaegg on Friday 5th October 16:46
That's an awful finish.
We fit windows every week and wouldn't dream of leaving a finish like that.
We fit timber windows and doors and admittedly it's a lot easier to manufacture trims as required. But they haven't even painted the trims the same colour as the doors!
Also, surely the point of aluminium windows is for them to be maintenance free? Putting timber trims round surely defeats this as they are going to need to be painted regularly.
I think you've been very good paying as much as you have - we normally work on a 30% deposit, 60% prior to installation and the balance to be paid once work is complete and customer is happy.
Some of the windows look like they've been made too small resulting in a huge gap needing to be filled.
Am I right in thinking that the window in the first picture doesn't seem to have an overhang or drip?
We fit windows every week and wouldn't dream of leaving a finish like that.
We fit timber windows and doors and admittedly it's a lot easier to manufacture trims as required. But they haven't even painted the trims the same colour as the doors!
Also, surely the point of aluminium windows is for them to be maintenance free? Putting timber trims round surely defeats this as they are going to need to be painted regularly.
I think you've been very good paying as much as you have - we normally work on a 30% deposit, 60% prior to installation and the balance to be paid once work is complete and customer is happy.
Some of the windows look like they've been made too small resulting in a huge gap needing to be filled.
Am I right in thinking that the window in the first picture doesn't seem to have an overhang or drip?
Yes Rosscow, there is a reason for that, it is under a porch area which we are having enclosed and then it will become part of the inside of the house.
The problem with asking that they come back and finish it are:
1) Their solution is to stick loads more trim on to the windows (using yet more mastik)
2) If they do this then the rendering would not have the same effect and also if the trim is pulled off it could damage the powder coated aluminium window.
Therefore we are asking for a few more weeks - about 3 to 4 to get the render done (6 months before we were going to) to see if that will resolve it as it will hide the mastik. We are only keeping £250 back which is a tiny amount. They answer with nonsense like 'you don't get credit at Sainsburys' which just proves they are not listening to what we are saying. Sainsburys is retail and you buy a product for a few pounds that you can taste, see and feel - £35k of windows is a pre-order that is based on trust and a large part service - it is just a childish response that I would expect from an adolescent not a professional.
These comments on here are really helpful because they echo what I feel and think.
They are just refusing to accept that this is a really poor quality finish. They just keep saying that 'everyone will criticise another person's job'. Sheesh, if it was my company I would accept that it was not up to scratch and forego the £250 as a gesture of goodwill because the client needs to get a house rendered to put MY work right properly .. I would want to protect my reputation.
The problem with asking that they come back and finish it are:
1) Their solution is to stick loads more trim on to the windows (using yet more mastik)
2) If they do this then the rendering would not have the same effect and also if the trim is pulled off it could damage the powder coated aluminium window.
Therefore we are asking for a few more weeks - about 3 to 4 to get the render done (6 months before we were going to) to see if that will resolve it as it will hide the mastik. We are only keeping £250 back which is a tiny amount. They answer with nonsense like 'you don't get credit at Sainsburys' which just proves they are not listening to what we are saying. Sainsburys is retail and you buy a product for a few pounds that you can taste, see and feel - £35k of windows is a pre-order that is based on trust and a large part service - it is just a childish response that I would expect from an adolescent not a professional.
These comments on here are really helpful because they echo what I feel and think.
They are just refusing to accept that this is a really poor quality finish. They just keep saying that 'everyone will criticise another person's job'. Sheesh, if it was my company I would accept that it was not up to scratch and forego the £250 as a gesture of goodwill because the client needs to get a house rendered to put MY work right properly .. I would want to protect my reputation.
I have got Ali windows and mine look like they have been sunk into the walls, no mastic or anything. Its not easy to see from this pic but I hope you get the idea:
If you are going to render the walls hopefully you guys should be able to produce a nice finish around the windows, I'm just not sure if render will stick to mastic
If you are going to render the walls hopefully you guys should be able to produce a nice finish around the windows, I'm just not sure if render will stick to mastic
Edited by Streetrod on Friday 5th October 18:53
In all honesty, that is as rough as a badgers arse. I wouldn't be a happy bunny at all. Looks like a 4 year old has went to town with a mastic gun. Hope you get it sorted!
Edit to add, In order to render, that mastic will need to be cut out, Render won't take to the rubber.
Edit to add, In order to render, that mastic will need to be cut out, Render won't take to the rubber.
Edited by GG89 on Friday 5th October 19:01
Unacceptable ... I'd ask them to remove the mastic (looks more like silicone in the photos) and replace with correct material in a suitable colour with the work being done by a professional ... and before they do all the windows, I would ask to approve a single sample of the proposed finish ... if this is unacceptable, get other professionals to complete the job properly and counter charge them
Thank you all - this is very helpful. I will be sending them this thread, as they have continually refused to accept that their work is an unacceptable standard. I think it would be useful for them to understand that this is not 'just me' - just because I don't know anything about windows.
The thing is, we are definitely getting it rendered - probably in the next two or 3 weeks with Sto rend. They have seen the silicone (yes it is silicone, I am just a girl and only know about kittens, nail polish and handbags). The renderer is aware that it is a key requirement that it is covered effectivley...
Getting the house rendered was always next phase of the facelift project - just happens that we now need to bring the timing forward.
The thing is, we are definitely getting it rendered - probably in the next two or 3 weeks with Sto rend. They have seen the silicone (yes it is silicone, I am just a girl and only know about kittens, nail polish and handbags). The renderer is aware that it is a key requirement that it is covered effectivley...
Getting the house rendered was always next phase of the facelift project - just happens that we now need to bring the timing forward.
parakitaMol. said:
Thank you all - this is very helpful. I will be sending them this thread, as they have continually refused to accept that their work is an unacceptable standard. I think it would be useful for them to understand that this is not 'just me' - just because I don't know anything about windows.
The thing is, we are definitely getting it rendered - probably in the next two or 3 weeks with Sto rend. They have seen the silicone (yes it is silicone, I am just a girl and only know about kittens, nail polish and handbags). The renderer is aware that it is a key requirement that it is covered effectivley...
Getting the house rendered was always next phase of the facelift project - just happens that we now need to bring the timing forward.
I wouldnt point them towards this to be honest. Showing them a bunch of people who have no credentials (proven) on a car forum will come off as unprofessional and confrontational - 'look, all these random people on this website agree with me!'The thing is, we are definitely getting it rendered - probably in the next two or 3 weeks with Sto rend. They have seen the silicone (yes it is silicone, I am just a girl and only know about kittens, nail polish and handbags). The renderer is aware that it is a key requirement that it is covered effectivley...
Getting the house rendered was always next phase of the facelift project - just happens that we now need to bring the timing forward.
Just politely but firmly state what you want and make it clear if they are not willing then someone else will and the money you are holding will be used to pay for it.
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