Running a Business from Home - Planning Consent

[Chrisgr31]

As a matter of interest (at the moment) what are the rules about running a business from home, and when is planning consent required?

For example my neighbour is a plumber, which has come with unexpected issues. He tends to bring home copper and store it before having enough to take it in for scrap. Guess what the villians discovered this and on three occasions now he has had it stolen, which of course isnt great for crime stats in the area. He has also now employed another plumber they both have vans based next year. Whilst they have a large drive, the 2 vans, 2 cars and the horsebox dont fit on the drive so a van or car is always on the road. He told me the other day that he is about to employ another plumber and get another van. Personally I doubt that he will get another van but at what point between now and him becoming the size of Pimilico Plumbers does he have to get planning consent?

As another example down the road a house has changed hands. The people that bought it run a self drive van hire company. They have space on their drive for 4 vehicles but have 3 cars and at least 3 or 4 vans at home at any one point so several are parked in the road. I dont know how many vans they have in their fleet but they have others littered around the town parked presumably as advertising, one is often opposite the station, another always outside Tesco.

Then nearby there are two separate houses where carpet salesman and fitters live. They run their own businesses and bring their samples to your home, if you order carpet from them it is initially delivered to their house before they bring it to the customer. These means carpet delivery lorries daily driving through a residential estate.

Life is too short for me to report or even ask the local council about planning consent, as none of them bother me excessively at present. But if they get bigger at what point is planning consent required?

[Equus]

There is no clear-cut dividing line, but the general test is whether the operation of the business will change the overall character of the dwelling.

Apart from the fundamental question of whether the house is still occupied as a residence, questions you would need to be asking are things like:

• Does it significantly increase the vehicular movements around the premises?
• Does operation of the business lead to significant noise or odours that would be likely to disturb neighbours?
• Does it involve any activities that are not consistent with a residential area (noting that as a further test, you could consider whether the use would fall within Planning Use Class B1, which is itself defined as office, R&D premises or "industrial processes which can take place in a residential area without harming the amenity of that area")?

[mikyman]

There is probably a clause in your house,and presumably his, deeds to prohibit any form of business from being carried on.Ask the Land Registry in Cardiff for a copy of both deeds,not costly to obtain.You then should have your answer. If it is 'no business' then you can get him to stop.Be warned its a long and costly exercise.

[jumare]

[quote=Chrisgr31

Then nearby there are two separate houses where carpet salesman and fitters live. They run their own businesses and bring their samples to your home, if you order carpet from them it is initially delivered to their house before they bring it to the customer. These means carpet delivery lorries daily driving through a residential estate.


[/quote]

we've got that, it can be annoying when a big carpet lorry is parked on the corner outside his house but I guess after 25 years we've got used to it. Also people who have work vans can be a bit of an eyesore and take up parking spaces but as I've got older I've become more tolerant. However your case of multiple vans I think I'd be making enquires at the council.

Off-road parking in general is a nightmare, we have parking for 5 cars (including garage which we don't use) and 4 cars, neighbours have parking for 2 cars (inc' garage which they do use) and 4 cars so there are normally 2 carts in the road and to make it worse when they use the car from the garage they tend to leave the drive empty so have 3 cars in the road (1 normally parked directly opposite our drive) - sorry seem to have gone off on a rant.

[abzmike]

It may not bother you excessively just now, but if you ever want to sell up, potential viewers having to navigate round half a dozen transits and a carpet delivery truck may well be put off. Sounds like your street is turning into a van park, and I would be talking to the council to see if they had a view or any suggestions.

[V8RX7]

The rules generally aren't about running a business per se but there are certainly rules on parking commercial vehicles accepting deliveries etc

Eg the Plumber probably hasn't got a waste licence and if he has there is no way his home will be the designated waste storage facility.

[V8RX7]

nonsequitur said:

V8RX7 said:

The rules generally aren't about running a business per se but there are certainly rules on parking commercial vehicles accepting deliveries etc

Eg the Plumber probably hasn't got a waste licence and if he has there is no way his home will be the designated waste storage facility.

According to my LA, all persons who wish to run a business from a residential property are required to submit planning permission. This way at least it will be investigated and permission refused if it is deemed unsuitable

Some applications will be granted if there is no smell, additional noise etc. attached to the proposed business.

At the very least any business operating from a private address will require ' Change of use' permission for such activity.

Life is not too short for you to delve into your neighbours' affairs in this instance. Unauthorised businesses can ruin a street / estate with unwanted noise etc.

Get to it!! Good luck.

It may be useful to get some other neighbours involved.

Having run several businesses from home... when the Council enquire the first thing I tell them is that my business is run from my phone so wherever it is, is where my business is being run from - you do NOT need permission.

They generally give up at that point

[Equus]

nonsequitur said:

According to my LA, all persons who wish to run a business from a residential property are required to submit planning permission.

Your Local Authority are wrong, and they are acting illegally if they make such a statement: no Authority can 'require' anyone to submit a Planning application (and pay the associated fee, of course), for development or land use that falls outside the scope of Planning Control.

Who is your LPA, and do you have a link to any such statement on their website?

[Chrisgr31]

Thanks for the replies, all interesting. I am not going to query the deeds as somewhere else on Pistonheads my neighbour may have posted "My neighbour has a caravan on the drive in breach of covenants in the deeds what can I do."!

None of the issues bug me significantly enough to complain to the Council, I'll worry about neighbour if and when a 3rd van appears.

Was just wondering about it all.

[Alucidnation]

Chrisgr31 said:

Thanks for the replies, all interesting. I am not going to query the deeds as somewhere else on Pistonheads my neighbour may have posted "My neighbour has a caravan on the drive in breach of covenants in the deeds what can I do."!

None of the issues bug me significantly enough to complain to the Council, I'll worry about neighbour if and when a 3rd van appears.

Was just wondering about it all.

So this is a pot and kettle thing then?

[V8RX7]

Alucidnation said:

Chrisgr31 said:

Thanks for the replies, all interesting. I am not going to query the deeds as somewhere else on Pistonheads my neighbour may have posted "My neighbour has a caravan on the drive in breach of covenants in the deeds what can I do."!

None of the issues bug me significantly enough to complain to the Council, I'll worry about neighbour if and when a 3rd van appears.

Was just wondering about it all.

So this is a pot and kettle thing then?

A pot and two kettles

[Equus]

nonsequitur said:

Of course a requirement can mean that not everybody will comply, and will proceed with their plans regardless.

Eh?

You really are talking bks, you know?

[Equus]

nonsequitur said:

I think we are approaching this from different angles.

Yes, I'm approaching it from the angle of being right. You're approaching it from the angle of talking complete ste.

If a Planning Application was required for home business use under any circumstances, as you are suggesting your LPA demands, then anyone not complying would be open to enforcement action. A bit like the man who hid his house behind straw bales was forced to knock it down.

So... custard test: let's have the name of your Local Authority, and the source of your assertion that they require a Planning Application from anyone wishing to operate a business from home?

[Equus]

nonsequitur said:

What is wrong with taking enforcement action against someone who starts, lets say a motor bike repair business in his garage without permission, and creates unwanted noise for his neighbours?

There's nothing at all wrong with taking enforcement action against anything that is an actual breach of Planning.

But:

you said:

According to my LA, all persons who wish to run a business from a residential property are required to submit planning permission. This way at least it will be investigated and permission refused if it is deemed unsuitable.

You're now being very reticent about naming this Local Authority.

Running a business from home does not necessarily require Planning permission. An LPA cannot therefore require people to submit a Planning Application in every case. It would be 'ultra vires' - in plain English: illegal - for them to do so.

I explained in my first post the basic tests that define whether a business is operating in a way that requires Planning Permission.

• If the business operator is confident that their business does not fail these tests, they are under no obligation whatsoever to seek Planning permission.

• In borderline situations, if the the operator of the business is unsure whether they need permission, they can apply for a Certificate of Lawfulness.

• If a neighbour, such as the OP, believes that the business is operating in such a way that it requires permission, they can report the matter to Planning Enforcement, who will investigate.

You are accusing your Local Authority of breaking the law. I think you owe it to them to either withdraw that accusation, or to come up with evidence to support it. Otherwise, on a public forum, you yourself are committing the crime of libel.

[WindyCommon]

Equus said:

You are accusing your Local Authority of breaking the law. I think you owe it to them to either withdraw that accusation, or to come up with evidence to support it. Otherwise, on a public forum, you yourself are committing the crime of libel.

This is absolute nonsense. “PH expertise” at its very worst.

[Alucidnation]

[Equus]

WindyCommon said:

This is absolute nonsense. “PH expertise” at its very worst.

You agree with Nonsensical Nonsequitur that a Planning Application is required for any business run from home, then?

[WindyCommon]

Equus said:

You agree with Nonsensical Nonsequitur that a Planning Application is required for any business run from home, then?

You are Cathy Newman AICMFP...!

[Equus]

WindyCommon said:

You are Cathy Newman AICMFP...!

You are avoiding an answer (just like Nonsensical), and I wish I was!

[WindyCommon]

Equus said:

You are accusing your Local Authority of breaking the law. I think you owe it to them to either withdraw that accusation, or to come up with evidence to support it. Otherwise, on a public forum, you yourself are committing the crime of libel.

Equus said:

WindyCommon said:

This is absolute nonsense. “PH expertise” at its very worst.

You agree with Nonsensical Nonsequitur that a Planning Application is required for any business run from home, then?

The nonsense is your statement about breaking the law. Nonsequitur hasn't "accused" anyone of anything. He doesn't "owe it" to anyone to withdraw anything. He isn't required to "come up with evidence" to support anything. He hasn't made ANY statements that remotely resemble "libel". And - in any case - libel isn't a crime. Your whole paragraph is utter rubbish and can be safely disregarded.