Patio sub base with rubble
Discussion
hello, I am building a little patio in the back garden.
can I re use the rubbles, old bricks, broken concrete pieces , as the sub base ?
what other in filler can or should I use to create a base for porcelain slabs please ?
thank you very much in in advance for any feedback.
can I re use the rubbles, old bricks, broken concrete pieces , as the sub base ?
what other in filler can or should I use to create a base for porcelain slabs please ?
thank you very much in in advance for any feedback.
Edited by ukdiy on Monday 3rd May 12:40
The same sledge hammer you are going to use to break them up with or if you want an actual tool.
https://www.toolstation.com/roughneck-tamper/p3305...
Or just hire a whaker plate
https://www.toolstation.com/roughneck-tamper/p3305...
Or just hire a whaker plate
LocoBlade said:
Once broken down a bit I'd have thought putting some MOT Type1 scalpings down on top then renting a whacker plate for the day to get it all compacted down and flat would be your best bet.
noted. thank you LocoBlade.the area is about 3m x 4m. how much MOT Type 1 do you think that I would need ?
Trophy Husband said:
I wouldn't. You'll end up with point loads beneath your slabs where they may break in time. Definite no no for me and hard landscaping is part of our repertoire in groundwork.
hello Trophy Husband, what would you recommend ? the steps that I understand are :
1) break up the bigger lump
2) maybe add MOT type 1 to fill the gap or void
3) pour cement and sand mix to create smooth surface for porcelain slab (question is how thick of cement & sand mix should be to provide secure base ?)
ukdiy said:
Trophy Husband said:
I wouldn't. You'll end up with point loads beneath your slabs where they may break in time. Definite no no for me and hard landscaping is part of our repertoire in groundwork.
hello Trophy Husband, what would you recommend ? the steps that I understand are :
1) break up the bigger lump
2) maybe add MOT type 1 to fill the gap or void
3) pour cement and sand mix to create smooth surface for porcelain slab (question is how thick of cement & sand mix should be to provide secure base ?)
How much are you paying for 1m2 of porcelain before you lay it?
Divide that number by a putative hourly rate for your labour.
Work out how long to remove the rubble and cost of disposal v time to smash it up in situ and chance it.
The answer should prove itself!
Get rid of the rubble, buy 1t bags of scalpings/MOT (1 to 20mm ish?). Lay 100mm or so, a 1t bag should do 4m2 or so as they are only 850kgs!
Prep is everything. Get the prep right and the rest is a walk in the park.
I'd use grit sand as it has a better coefficient of friction than building sand and thus sits better with itself and is less likely to suffer from underwash over time.
Do not dot and dab the slabs! They need full beds assuming they're 30mm thick?
For every 6 shovels of grit sand I'd use 1 cement, all dry mixed. Remember a good mask and goggles. Cement dust is baaaad!
Good luck!
I can say one thing and that is porcelain isn't a really diy thing and with all respect if your asking about the sub base its not a great start.
Basically that base isn't much good, you want type 1 at least and if your on clay then a concrete base on top of it.
Porcelain has very small joints and any movement at all will result in cracking.
I would suggest visiting the paving expert website for a start as its too in depth to quickly write out but ultimately its not the same as laying concrete slabs or even sandstone. Theres also some great videos on youtube, search for 'tidy bricks landscaping' and 'brockstone' both of which do some great tutorials.
Basically that base isn't much good, you want type 1 at least and if your on clay then a concrete base on top of it.
Porcelain has very small joints and any movement at all will result in cracking.
I would suggest visiting the paving expert website for a start as its too in depth to quickly write out but ultimately its not the same as laying concrete slabs or even sandstone. Theres also some great videos on youtube, search for 'tidy bricks landscaping' and 'brockstone' both of which do some great tutorials.
I am contemplating redoing my patio which has a step in it to remove the step. So my plan is to remove the exist slabs, and crush them using one of these https://www.micromachinehire.co.uk/
Seems little point paying for a skip to remove the slabs and then buying an equivalent volume of MOT, but again I am not going to try and break up the slabs in to small bits myself with a sledgehammer
Seems little point paying for a skip to remove the slabs and then buying an equivalent volume of MOT, but again I am not going to try and break up the slabs in to small bits myself with a sledgehammer
I'd say there are currently too many big gaps in the rubble in the OP's photo. Definitely needs breaking down into smaller pieces. If there are gaps then there's a chance stuff will move over the years, potentially making the finished surface unstable.
When broken down and whacked, I'd be putting a 4" layer of MOT 1 (crusher run) over the top, put down in 2" layers. 1st layer put down and whacked, then the next 2" layer laid and whacked.
When broken down and whacked, I'd be putting a 4" layer of MOT 1 (crusher run) over the top, put down in 2" layers. 1st layer put down and whacked, then the next 2" layer laid and whacked.
Chrisgr31 said:
I am contemplating redoing my patio which has a step in it to remove the step. So my plan is to remove the exist slabs, and crush them using one of these https://www.micromachinehire.co.uk/
Seems little point paying for a skip to remove the slabs and then buying an equivalent volume of MOT, but again I am not going to try and break up the slabs in to small bits myself with a sledgehammer
Alternatively, if you're going to be shifting that rubble, maybe save money on the micro machine and instead get a skip for the bigger bits (or put in wheelie bin over the following few months) and leave the smaller bits in place, then lay MOT 1 over the top and whack down in 2" layers.Seems little point paying for a skip to remove the slabs and then buying an equivalent volume of MOT, but again I am not going to try and break up the slabs in to small bits myself with a sledgehammer
You don't want to be shifting stuff more than once.
Edited by LeadFarmer on Monday 3rd May 16:16
We just had a porcelain slab patio laid. 48m2 with 600x600 great non slip surface. I walked on it in bare feet the otherday and it felt nice! The person laying it has done a superb job. The sub base was scalpings whacked down over a VERY solid ground. A digger cleared the area. The slabs were laid by an experienced layer. He used squared off lines and spacers to get a perfectly aligned pattern, not just using a spirit level and “by eye”. Slabs were laid on a thick fresh bed of wet mix about 10cm thick, not just the 5 spot crap method, and the backs of the porcelain primed before laying. Grouting was with Sika and a roller used to set it.
The land was once a slag reclamation works for a now gone steelworks and absolutely rock solid ( no pun ) with even thick concrete areas left after demolition of the works to build the houses.
I have laid ordinary slabs in the past and seeing how this chap laid them was impressive. He was very complimentary about the quality of the groundworks left for him.
I convinced swmbo to go the porcelain route after taking her to see some and she loves it after initially questioning the extra cost that was not really that much more.
It is possible as a DIY job BUT will look crap unless done meticulously using proper layout with squaring up. The alignment of slabs will creep out of true and look s**t! See the “photos that make your teeth itch” topic for examples!
My advice is to get rid of that rubble and relay MOT/scalpings whacked down. Then lay on a good thickness of mix. Be ULTRA meticulous in squaring off/ gapping / use string lines when laying.
It is a process very much like laying floor tiles.
The land was once a slag reclamation works for a now gone steelworks and absolutely rock solid ( no pun ) with even thick concrete areas left after demolition of the works to build the houses.
I have laid ordinary slabs in the past and seeing how this chap laid them was impressive. He was very complimentary about the quality of the groundworks left for him.
I convinced swmbo to go the porcelain route after taking her to see some and she loves it after initially questioning the extra cost that was not really that much more.
It is possible as a DIY job BUT will look crap unless done meticulously using proper layout with squaring up. The alignment of slabs will creep out of true and look s**t! See the “photos that make your teeth itch” topic for examples!
My advice is to get rid of that rubble and relay MOT/scalpings whacked down. Then lay on a good thickness of mix. Be ULTRA meticulous in squaring off/ gapping / use string lines when laying.
It is a process very much like laying floor tiles.
Edited by sospan on Tuesday 4th May 20:50
Edited by sospan on Tuesday 4th May 20:52
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