Tracing Underground Cold Water Pipe
Discussion
Tl;DR; what's the best way to trace the route of a pipe from the tap back to wherever the source is?
I've recently bought a small (3 acre) equestrian property. At the stables (approx 70m from the house) there is some blue MDPE pipe coming out of the ground, up a post and terminating in a tap - or it would do if the tap was there but it isn't.
I'm curious to find out where the pipe goes, and where the stop valve is for it. We have zero information about it and are unable to obtain information from the previous inhabitants. There is nothing at the house that looks like an external stopcock for the water feed. So it's either so old it is decomissioned and possible not a very long pipe at all, or it goes somewhere we haven't found yet.
Aside from digging down to see which direction the pipe goes and then digging periodic holes to try and trace the route is there a less labour intensive way of answering these questions? Has anyone used a company with ground penetrating radar gismos to trace pipes? Any other recommendations?
I've recently bought a small (3 acre) equestrian property. At the stables (approx 70m from the house) there is some blue MDPE pipe coming out of the ground, up a post and terminating in a tap - or it would do if the tap was there but it isn't.
I'm curious to find out where the pipe goes, and where the stop valve is for it. We have zero information about it and are unable to obtain information from the previous inhabitants. There is nothing at the house that looks like an external stopcock for the water feed. So it's either so old it is decomissioned and possible not a very long pipe at all, or it goes somewhere we haven't found yet.
Aside from digging down to see which direction the pipe goes and then digging periodic holes to try and trace the route is there a less labour intensive way of answering these questions? Has anyone used a company with ground penetrating radar gismos to trace pipes? Any other recommendations?
When South East Water were installing a meter at our house they dug several holes where they thought the pipe was. They then gave up and dug a trench across the whole front boundary until they found the pipe.
I therefore conclude the methods to find water pipes don’t work - so you’d best dig holes!
I therefore conclude the methods to find water pipes don’t work - so you’d best dig holes!
When the "find the leak" guy from Scottish water showed up at mine, they used a long rod with an ear trumpet on the end. The bloke's van had several similar sticks rattling around.
He was able to find a) the pipe and b) a leak 20ft away from where he first found the pipe, within about 10 minutes of showing up.
He was able to find a) the pipe and b) a leak 20ft away from where he first found the pipe, within about 10 minutes of showing up.
If there is no tap - is it just an open ended pipe?
If so your only hope might be to look at overhead pictures and try and see where the trench was dug to lay it. Common sense would suggest if it was for water it would be near your existing water pipes - if you know where they start, run and terminate.
However, don't discount that it's not for water at all and was put in to run a cable....
If so your only hope might be to look at overhead pictures and try and see where the trench was dug to lay it. Common sense would suggest if it was for water it would be near your existing water pipes - if you know where they start, run and terminate.
However, don't discount that it's not for water at all and was put in to run a cable....
Given that the end of the pipe is open then it might be possible to stuff a traceable cable rod down it & follow it with a detector:
https://www.allpipe.co.uk/traceable-pipe--duct-cob...
https://www.allpipe.co.uk/catscan-cable-avoidance-...
Presumably the tracing compnies will have the neccesary kit.
https://www.allpipe.co.uk/traceable-pipe--duct-cob...
https://www.allpipe.co.uk/catscan-cable-avoidance-...
Presumably the tracing compnies will have the neccesary kit.
Leithen said:
If there is no tap - is it just an open ended pipe?
If so your only hope might be to look at overhead pictures and try and see where the trench was dug to lay it. Common sense would suggest if it was for water it would be near your existing water pipes - if you know where they start, run and terminate.
However, don't discount that it's not for water at all and was put in to run a cable....
100% certain it's a water pipe. Blue MDPE coming up out of the ground wrapped in insulation to an elbow just no tap on it.If so your only hope might be to look at overhead pictures and try and see where the trench was dug to lay it. Common sense would suggest if it was for water it would be near your existing water pipes - if you know where they start, run and terminate.
However, don't discount that it's not for water at all and was put in to run a cable....
When the farm next to us sold up for forestry and they wanted to plant trees they had to leave a corridor free of planting for a water pipe that runs to our land from a borehole.
There was no definitive plan of the route the pipe took and I kid you not but they used a water diviner to ascertain the route of the pipe.
I couldn’t really believe it, but the contracts manager said he used the diviner all of the time for this type of thing. Being slightly sceptical I agreed subject to a sub agreement that should any damage to my pipes be caused because the diviner got it wrong then they would put it right.
There was no definitive plan of the route the pipe took and I kid you not but they used a water diviner to ascertain the route of the pipe.
I couldn’t really believe it, but the contracts manager said he used the diviner all of the time for this type of thing. Being slightly sceptical I agreed subject to a sub agreement that should any damage to my pipes be caused because the diviner got it wrong then they would put it right.
If you want a definitive answer then contract a land surveyor with GPR equipment. It won’t be cheap, but he’ll tell you exactly where the water pipe is, and, while he’s there and you’re paying by the day rather than the hour, get him trace any other underground services you might have running through your land.
Or dig it up - you know where it goes into the ground so should be easy enough to find. And it’s been mentioned on here already, but water diviners. Despite what people think, they are, hilariously, surprisingly accurate.
Or dig it up - you know where it goes into the ground so should be easy enough to find. And it’s been mentioned on here already, but water diviners. Despite what people think, they are, hilariously, surprisingly accurate.
A little update incase anyone's interested.
I contacted Anglian Water Customer Support via WhatsApp and had a chat to them. They said they don't offer a pipe tracing service for private water pipes but that they would be able to send an engineer out to locate the shut off valve for it. I asked how they can find the shut off valve without tracing the pipework :
So, my new friend Nick from Anglian Water turned up this morning. Using a metal detector, some cable tracing cable, experience and intuition, he figured out that the MDPE pipe goes from the tap across the garden not down to the house, then along the fence line down to a wood store where there is an outside tap which is working. He reckons somewhere between the wood store and the garden is a shut off valve. I've scribble the layout on an old plan:
He's coming back next week with something called a "thumper" which apparently is a piece of kit you put on a pipe and it sends a pulse down the pipe which can be traced. His plan is to put this on the wood store end and he seems confident that will allow him to trace where the valve is.
So although we haven't found it, I know a lot more about the plumbing in my new house than I did 2 hours ago, and hopefully by the end of next week I might have a cold water supply at the stables. Fingers crossed.
I contacted Anglian Water Customer Support via WhatsApp and had a chat to them. They said they don't offer a pipe tracing service for private water pipes but that they would be able to send an engineer out to locate the shut off valve for it. I asked how they can find the shut off valve without tracing the pipework :
Anglian Water Customer Support said:
I can raise a job for us to investigate and see where the external stop tap for that is and see if they will investigate the pipework. But if they get there manage to locate the external stop tap without locating the rest of the private pipework, they wouldn't do that. Would you like me to raise the job and if so what time frame would you prefer?
I figured it was worth a go, and booked a morning appointment.So, my new friend Nick from Anglian Water turned up this morning. Using a metal detector, some cable tracing cable, experience and intuition, he figured out that the MDPE pipe goes from the tap across the garden not down to the house, then along the fence line down to a wood store where there is an outside tap which is working. He reckons somewhere between the wood store and the garden is a shut off valve. I've scribble the layout on an old plan:
He's coming back next week with something called a "thumper" which apparently is a piece of kit you put on a pipe and it sends a pulse down the pipe which can be traced. His plan is to put this on the wood store end and he seems confident that will allow him to trace where the valve is.
So although we haven't found it, I know a lot more about the plumbing in my new house than I did 2 hours ago, and hopefully by the end of next week I might have a cold water supply at the stables. Fingers crossed.
I used a Ground Mapping radar company in the past to trace the route of a plastic duct containing CCTV cables under a car park. They did so right up to the scar left by a contractor installing a new mains cable to a new security lodge. The contractor were insistent they hadn’t cut though anything at all. They had!
It worked really well but was on smooth tarmac (It looked like he was hoovering up) so might not be so good in your case
It worked really well but was on smooth tarmac (It looked like he was hoovering up) so might not be so good in your case
LastPoster said:
I used a Ground Mapping radar company in the past to trace the route of a plastic duct containing CCTV cables under a car park. They did so right up to the scar left by a contractor installing a new mains cable to a new security lodge. The contractor were insistent they hadn’t cut though anything at all. They had!
It worked really well but was on smooth tarmac (It looked like he was hoovering up) so might not be so good in your case
A ground radar company was my original plan, but they want £350 to come out and when I read the email from the guy I could sense the teeth sucking and head shaking so thought I'd take a punt and speak to the water company customer support to see if there was anything they could do even though it's private pipework.It worked really well but was on smooth tarmac (It looked like he was hoovering up) so might not be so good in your case
48k said:
LastPoster said:
I used a Ground Mapping radar company in the past to trace the route of a plastic duct containing CCTV cables under a car park. They did so right up to the scar left by a contractor installing a new mains cable to a new security lodge. The contractor were insistent they hadn’t cut though anything at all. They had!
It worked really well but was on smooth tarmac (It looked like he was hoovering up) so might not be so good in your case
A ground radar company was my original plan, but they want £350 to come out and when I read the email from the guy I could sense the teeth sucking and head shaking so thought I'd take a punt and speak to the water company customer support to see if there was anything they could do even though it's private pipework.It worked really well but was on smooth tarmac (It looked like he was hoovering up) so might not be so good in your case
normalbloke said:
48k said:
LastPoster said:
I used a Ground Mapping radar company in the past to trace the route of a plastic duct containing CCTV cables under a car park. They did so right up to the scar left by a contractor installing a new mains cable to a new security lodge. The contractor were insistent they hadn’t cut though anything at all. They had!
It worked really well but was on smooth tarmac (It looked like he was hoovering up) so might not be so good in your case
A ground radar company was my original plan, but they want £350 to come out and when I read the email from the guy I could sense the teeth sucking and head shaking so thought I'd take a punt and speak to the water company customer support to see if there was anything they could do even though it's private pipework.It worked really well but was on smooth tarmac (It looked like he was hoovering up) so might not be so good in your case
I don’t know if it’s the best option, but it worked in finding a small plastic pipe in my case. Like the OP I knew where the end of the pipe was and the guy was establishing the route not attempting to find something in the middle of a wide area. I can’t remember exactly ‘what’ we could see but it was a very obvious line on his screen that could be followed
LastPoster said:
I paid £500 (not my money) about 20 years ago
I don’t know if it’s the best option, but it worked in finding a small plastic pipe in my case. Like the OP I knew where the end of the pipe was and the guy was establishing the route not attempting to find something in the middle of a wide area. I can’t remember exactly ‘what’ we could see but it was a very obvious line on his screen that could be followed
Might have been the CCTV cable inside the pipe that was producing the echo.I don’t know if it’s the best option, but it worked in finding a small plastic pipe in my case. Like the OP I knew where the end of the pipe was and the guy was establishing the route not attempting to find something in the middle of a wide area. I can’t remember exactly ‘what’ we could see but it was a very obvious line on his screen that could be followed
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