How hard it is to weld?
Discussion
Ok, this is almost certainly one of those thoughts that will go nowhere but it has been lingering for a while.
I quite enjoy building / modifying stuff and I often find myself needing to attach various small pieces of steel together.
At the moment this means drilling holes through both bits and bolting them together. It is OK but not ideal and being able to weld them together would (in theory) be a lot quicker and easier.
I'm not talking about anything majorly structural (no car stuff etc) but just the odd bracket here and there.
For example I have one of those huge DrumBQ barbeques and the stand does not have any wheels on it. That means when I move it on the decking it scratches the wood.
So yesterday I added some wheels to the stand which required me to drill 2 holes through each leg, modify some 90 degree angle brackets and bolt it all together. It would have been a lot easier to weld them on - I think!
Also, what does a basic and "easy" to use welding rig cost? Are we in the hundreds or will I get a decent 2nd hand one for under a £100?
Like most of my stupid ideas this one will likely be replaced by another one soon but for the time being I'm curious if anyone here has learned to weld without going on a course and spending a fortune.
I quite enjoy building / modifying stuff and I often find myself needing to attach various small pieces of steel together.
At the moment this means drilling holes through both bits and bolting them together. It is OK but not ideal and being able to weld them together would (in theory) be a lot quicker and easier.
I'm not talking about anything majorly structural (no car stuff etc) but just the odd bracket here and there.
For example I have one of those huge DrumBQ barbeques and the stand does not have any wheels on it. That means when I move it on the decking it scratches the wood.
So yesterday I added some wheels to the stand which required me to drill 2 holes through each leg, modify some 90 degree angle brackets and bolt it all together. It would have been a lot easier to weld them on - I think!
Also, what does a basic and "easy" to use welding rig cost? Are we in the hundreds or will I get a decent 2nd hand one for under a £100?
Like most of my stupid ideas this one will likely be replaced by another one soon but for the time being I'm curious if anyone here has learned to weld without going on a course and spending a fortune.
Why don't you look into doing a day course or hiring a set and giving it a go?
In my experience using a friends set I didn't find it that difficult to do a weld which looked ok without any prior training but maybe I just had the knack of doing it. I wouldn't do it on anything important/structural though!
In my experience using a friends set I didn't find it that difficult to do a weld which looked ok without any prior training but maybe I just had the knack of doing it. I wouldn't do it on anything important/structural though!
I learnt to MIG weld (which is all you need), however I did go on a course. 10 weeks, 3 hours one evening a week at a local(ish) college. Cost was about £40. I am now the proud holder of a Level 1 City and Guilds certificate in MIG welding.
However, if you've got someone to show you the basics I think you could pick it up in a couple of hours. It's really not very hard. Setting up the welder is probably 80% of the job.
As for what to buy - that's a minefield. A decent welder definitely makes things easier. Take a look at www.mig-welding.co.uk if you want more guidance.
However, if you've got someone to show you the basics I think you could pick it up in a couple of hours. It's really not very hard. Setting up the welder is probably 80% of the job.
As for what to buy - that's a minefield. A decent welder definitely makes things easier. Take a look at www.mig-welding.co.uk if you want more guidance.
I’ve just bought one of those Saker, hand held, stick welders. I’ve not used it yet but apparently they are meant for beginners.
https://amzn.eu/d/5RPgjDi
https://amzn.eu/d/5RPgjDi
MIG welding of relatively thick steel (say 2mm+) can be quite easy to master. Don’t think about welding thin sheet though (like the drum of your BBQ or a car panel) unless you have a lot of experience as that can be a frustrating ordeal of blow holes!
Really decent new MIG welder is under £500, obviously you can get second hand for buttons but modern inverter versions are much more forgiving than old MIGs with fixed power levels. You’ll also want to a decent gas supply so get a refillable cylinder and don’t waste your time on the tiny disposable cylinders. Argon/ CO2 mix is the best for mild steel or even a bit of stainless.
Really decent new MIG welder is under £500, obviously you can get second hand for buttons but modern inverter versions are much more forgiving than old MIGs with fixed power levels. You’ll also want to a decent gas supply so get a refillable cylinder and don’t waste your time on the tiny disposable cylinders. Argon/ CO2 mix is the best for mild steel or even a bit of stainless.
I taught myself to migweld years ago. That was before the advent of such things as YouTube that now make the access to knowledge so much easier.
A half decent gas mig welder is not going to be very expensive (personally I wouldn’t bother with the gasless ones) and opens up a whole world of project possibilities once mastered.
Tip: clean metal is key to successful welding.
A half decent gas mig welder is not going to be very expensive (personally I wouldn’t bother with the gasless ones) and opens up a whole world of project possibilities once mastered.
Tip: clean metal is key to successful welding.
Depends on how critical the weld is.
I did A level design and 'learned' to weld using MIG. One of my projects was a hydraulic exercise bench using 25mm bdms. It didn't fall apart, and it had a lot of load put through. If a dopey 17 year can do it, you'll be fine.
Just make sure you've read a book on how to prep and set up the welder.
Don't weld something load critical
I did A level design and 'learned' to weld using MIG. One of my projects was a hydraulic exercise bench using 25mm bdms. It didn't fall apart, and it had a lot of load put through. If a dopey 17 year can do it, you'll be fine.
Just make sure you've read a book on how to prep and set up the welder.
Don't weld something load critical
I started welding during lockdown as I had a car with holes in the inner arches. I bought a £100 gasless MIG and watched a lot of YouTube. Flux-core MIG isn't ideal for thin sheet metal, so it was definitely challenging, but I learnt a lot about managing heat and produced two reasonable repairs.
Not long after this, a PHer offered me a larger Clarke MIG welder and a rent-free gas bottle for a good price. Welding with gas on a machine with more adjustments is a heck of a lot easier. With hindsight, I should have started there, but there's more cost, effort and storage space required when you need to deal with bottle deposits etc.
I don't weld regularly, and the quality of my output is definitely variable, but being able to quickly join steel together permanently has come in very handy. I've probably also recouped a lot of what I've spent without meaning to. It's amazing how quickly word spreads around a village that someone might be able to fix your lawnmower handle/fireplace guard/trailer.
I'm working on a pair of gates for the side of our house at the moment. This has been my first big welding project. Welding thick, clean brand new steel has seemed like a luxury compared to what I've worked on in the past.
So yes, if you think it'd be a useful skill then go for it. It really expands the range of projects that you can take on.
Not long after this, a PHer offered me a larger Clarke MIG welder and a rent-free gas bottle for a good price. Welding with gas on a machine with more adjustments is a heck of a lot easier. With hindsight, I should have started there, but there's more cost, effort and storage space required when you need to deal with bottle deposits etc.
I don't weld regularly, and the quality of my output is definitely variable, but being able to quickly join steel together permanently has come in very handy. I've probably also recouped a lot of what I've spent without meaning to. It's amazing how quickly word spreads around a village that someone might be able to fix your lawnmower handle/fireplace guard/trailer.
I'm working on a pair of gates for the side of our house at the moment. This has been my first big welding project. Welding thick, clean brand new steel has seemed like a luxury compared to what I've worked on in the past.
So yes, if you think it'd be a useful skill then go for it. It really expands the range of projects that you can take on.
It would really depend on what you intend to weld, the thickness of materials will be a major point to think about, the cheapest set up will be MMA (manual metal arc) sometimes known as stick welding but you might struggle on very thin metal.
MIG welding would be your best bet for thinner material but is a bit more involved equipment wise, usually using a shielding gas and using more consumable parts such as liners that the wire runs through, contact tips that pass the electrical current to the wire and other associated parts for the welding 'gun'.
TIG is usually cleaner and more visually pleasing but would be a more expensive set up, more consumable parts and maybe harder to get started with.
Personally i have never used any budget/home style equipment as have only welded for work and industrial set ups are multiple thousands for an individual set but have seen MMA sets in either Aldi or Lidl that apparently are ok for light home use and can be had for around £50 i think.
Although you could probably teach yourself the basics from youtube it would be beneficial to look at getting a bit of tuition.
MIG welding would be your best bet for thinner material but is a bit more involved equipment wise, usually using a shielding gas and using more consumable parts such as liners that the wire runs through, contact tips that pass the electrical current to the wire and other associated parts for the welding 'gun'.
TIG is usually cleaner and more visually pleasing but would be a more expensive set up, more consumable parts and maybe harder to get started with.
Personally i have never used any budget/home style equipment as have only welded for work and industrial set ups are multiple thousands for an individual set but have seen MMA sets in either Aldi or Lidl that apparently are ok for light home use and can be had for around £50 i think.
Although you could probably teach yourself the basics from youtube it would be beneficial to look at getting a bit of tuition.
My dad taught me gas welding/brazing when I was a teen. He was a coachbuilder and I used to work on cars with him. I also did a bit of stick welding.
I went on to be a Metallurgist and welding was in the course at uni. Our lecturer described it as "casting in miniature" . It progressed to different metals, choice of filler material, heat effects (heat affected zone etc), prep for welding ( joint design, cleaning, finishing, including heat treatments.
The steelworks I was at changed from old open hearth to 150t electric arcs. 3x20" dia electrodes using massive power!
I went on to be a Metallurgist and welding was in the course at uni. Our lecturer described it as "casting in miniature" . It progressed to different metals, choice of filler material, heat effects (heat affected zone etc), prep for welding ( joint design, cleaning, finishing, including heat treatments.
The steelworks I was at changed from old open hearth to 150t electric arcs. 3x20" dia electrodes using massive power!
I dabbled with welding years ago, I never got good at it, because I always needed a result on something that mattered, so it was easier to get a competent person to do it.
Practice matters, if you don't keep using your skill, you slide back and need to re-learn.
I've tried again recently, using a modern inverter-based stick welder. It seems a lot easier. Plus I had some simple (crude) jobs to learn on.
Also a self-dimming helmet makes a huge difference.
Practice matters, if you don't keep using your skill, you slide back and need to re-learn.
I've tried again recently, using a modern inverter-based stick welder. It seems a lot easier. Plus I had some simple (crude) jobs to learn on.
Also a self-dimming helmet makes a huge difference.
One more tip - slitting disks and flap disks. Both essential tools for welding. Slitting disks are brilliant for cutting metal and flap disks will smooth a weld in seconds.
If you're going to be doing alot then get yourself 2 small angle grinders - one for the flap disk and one for the slitting disk. Otherwise you'll be forever changing disks.
If you're going to be doing alot then get yourself 2 small angle grinders - one for the flap disk and one for the slitting disk. Otherwise you'll be forever changing disks.
Thanks guys, very useful input.
I'm terms of what I would want to weld I guess new steel to newish steel (which I can clean up) and the thickness would typically be 2mm or more. I guess I might try to weld the odd thinner sheet to see how it goes.
And no, I would not be trying to do anything really structural - apart from the odd bracket here and there for something relatively light.
That Saker welder on Amazon almost looks too good to be true
https://www.amazon.co.uk/dp/B0DJ79QSQX?ref=cm_sw_r...
For £120 would it be worth a punt?
I'm not looking to make anything too pretty, just functional - but that being said I'd prefer my welds not t be too embarrassing.
Lots of food for though.
I'm terms of what I would want to weld I guess new steel to newish steel (which I can clean up) and the thickness would typically be 2mm or more. I guess I might try to weld the odd thinner sheet to see how it goes.
And no, I would not be trying to do anything really structural - apart from the odd bracket here and there for something relatively light.
That Saker welder on Amazon almost looks too good to be true
https://www.amazon.co.uk/dp/B0DJ79QSQX?ref=cm_sw_r...
For £120 would it be worth a punt?
I'm not looking to make anything too pretty, just functional - but that being said I'd prefer my welds not t be too embarrassing.
Lots of food for though.
I'd look at a basic arc (stick) welder. They are so very easy to use on reasonably thick metal, you really can't go wrong (so long as no-one can see it, and it's not structural of course!).
Mig welding is a level beyond - more equipment and setup, more skill needed. As it's a car forum, think of it as (proper) Defender vs. Unimog... most people don't need the Unimog for their driving.
If you know you need Mig, great, but if you're looking more for "simple metal glue" then arc is much more forgiving.
Usually around £100 on Amazon for a basic one. That handheld thing (which is an arc welder) looks like a disaster waiting to happen.
Mig welding is a level beyond - more equipment and setup, more skill needed. As it's a car forum, think of it as (proper) Defender vs. Unimog... most people don't need the Unimog for their driving.
If you know you need Mig, great, but if you're looking more for "simple metal glue" then arc is much more forgiving.
Usually around £100 on Amazon for a basic one. That handheld thing (which is an arc welder) looks like a disaster waiting to happen.
I have done old stick welding a fair bit in my youth - I say easy to do, I mean I could do it! - You will soon get used to the right noise it makes, a nice even crackle is what you are after.
An angle grinder can make any weld look semi decent, it will just take longer.
Get a good helmet with good eye protection, arc eye hurts lots.
Keep your sticks dry and play lots!
Thicker metal is easier to weld than thinner, (I used to be able to weld 0.8mm sheet, but if I went anywhere near that now it would just be one big hole) - and I would vote for an older bigger machine but that would be my choice.
An angle grinder can make any weld look semi decent, it will just take longer.
Get a good helmet with good eye protection, arc eye hurts lots.
Keep your sticks dry and play lots!
Thicker metal is easier to weld than thinner, (I used to be able to weld 0.8mm sheet, but if I went anywhere near that now it would just be one big hole) - and I would vote for an older bigger machine but that would be my choice.
There is welding and then there is Welding.
Pretty easy to weld mild steel for home bbq. Much harder with specialist or dissimilar metals for structural or hygiene use. It’s why professional welders are coded.
My son taught himself to weld using a second hand stick welder.
He is now a coded specialist welder and has welded stuff like this:
Silicone Bronze
Food quality stainless pipework in food factories, welds have to be perfect with no grinding allowed and smooth internally
and now he does these - underwater human habitats
Pretty easy to weld mild steel for home bbq. Much harder with specialist or dissimilar metals for structural or hygiene use. It’s why professional welders are coded.
My son taught himself to weld using a second hand stick welder.
He is now a coded specialist welder and has welded stuff like this:
Silicone Bronze
Food quality stainless pipework in food factories, welds have to be perfect with no grinding allowed and smooth internally
and now he does these - underwater human habitats
Edited by blueg33 on Thursday 1st May 11:41
Sticking 2 bits of metal together is fairly easy so long as its non structural and you don't care if you mess it up.
My main issue has been blowing holes through whatever it is. I always think "ah thats thick enough no problem".... buzz.... massive hole.
Other than that if the material is thick enough and you are not bothered what the weld looks like then its not that hard. Welding box section or plate is by far the easiest.
When you start to want something structural or water tight thats when the skill comes into it. That or confined spaces, upside down, in the dark... etc.
My main issue has been blowing holes through whatever it is. I always think "ah thats thick enough no problem".... buzz.... massive hole.
Other than that if the material is thick enough and you are not bothered what the weld looks like then its not that hard. Welding box section or plate is by far the easiest.
When you start to want something structural or water tight thats when the skill comes into it. That or confined spaces, upside down, in the dark... etc.
I generally only weld rotten car bodywork, which is usually a horrible job (or exhausts, usually the same). I got tired of relying on family and their kit so I bought a Chinese Vevor MIG welder from Amazon. It's an inverter model. Wasn't that cheap, but I wanted something that worked with gas and big wire spools and had plenty of power.
It has been very good. Controllable, I've welded everything from paper thin old metal to gates and it has done heavy work on broken industrial kit where portability was needed (it's very small). Replaceable lance.
My welding is pretty awful really, but functional. Flap disks save the day.
It has been very good. Controllable, I've welded everything from paper thin old metal to gates and it has done heavy work on broken industrial kit where portability was needed (it's very small). Replaceable lance.
My welding is pretty awful really, but functional. Flap disks save the day.
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