How to make UFH & Tado work in harmony
Discussion
We’re about to install underfloor heating (UFH) throughout the ground floor and plan to use Heatmiser NeoStats to control each room. Upstairs, I want to use Tado on the radiators. During the day, it’s just me at home and I’ll mostly be in my downstairs office, so I want that space warm but the rest of the house—especially upstairs—kept cooler.
I’m struggling to understand how to control both systems—UFH downstairs and radiators upstairs—either independently or in sync. Ideally, I’d like something like this:
• In the morning, Tado controls which radiators come on upstairs, and Heatmiser manages the UFH zones downstairs.
• During the day, only the UFH is running.
• At night, possibly a mix of both.
I think the plumber may need to set it up as a two-zone system, but I’m unsure how boiler control works in this setup. Can both the Tado controller and the Heatmiser controller call for heat from the boiler? Or does it all need to be managed through one?
I want to get a proper grasp on this so I can give the plumber clear instructions, but right now I’m finding it hard to piece it all together.
Has anyone done similar and able to give some help.
I’m struggling to understand how to control both systems—UFH downstairs and radiators upstairs—either independently or in sync. Ideally, I’d like something like this:
• In the morning, Tado controls which radiators come on upstairs, and Heatmiser manages the UFH zones downstairs.
• During the day, only the UFH is running.
• At night, possibly a mix of both.
I think the plumber may need to set it up as a two-zone system, but I’m unsure how boiler control works in this setup. Can both the Tado controller and the Heatmiser controller call for heat from the boiler? Or does it all need to be managed through one?
I want to get a proper grasp on this so I can give the plumber clear instructions, but right now I’m finding it hard to piece it all together.
Has anyone done similar and able to give some help.
You can have as many different things calling for heat as you like.
The problem is in then stopping that heat from going to places you don't want it - in this case your upstairs during the day.
The best way to do that would be to put each floor on a separate circuit so the Neostats and Tado only open their dedicated valve. If that's going to be too difficult then the workaround would be to set the Tado system to close each rad during the day. I don't know if Tado has that level of flexibility as I've never looked into that system. I know you could do it if it was the other way round and it was the UFH you wanted off during the day as that's how my system is set up and it works very well.
The problem is in then stopping that heat from going to places you don't want it - in this case your upstairs during the day.
The best way to do that would be to put each floor on a separate circuit so the Neostats and Tado only open their dedicated valve. If that's going to be too difficult then the workaround would be to set the Tado system to close each rad during the day. I don't know if Tado has that level of flexibility as I've never looked into that system. I know you could do it if it was the other way round and it was the UFH you wanted off during the day as that's how my system is set up and it works very well.
I forgot to add, the other problem you may have is the rads need to have a higher flow temp than the ufh. The thermostatic valves on the ufh manifolds can bring the temps down but it does mean you won't be running it as efficiently as you could when the rads are also calling for heat.
Depending on your boiler you might be able to set it to run at different temperatures depending on what is calling for heat, but if two things are both calling at the same time you will get the hotter flow temp.
Mine runs at about 65 for the hot water and 30 for the ufh. On the rare occasions they are both calling for heat then the ufh manifold thermostats cool the inlet temps but this is very rare as the hot water is set to come on for 30 mins at about 5am and is off again before the ufh is starting to bring the slab temp back up.
If you are running both systems morning and evening you will be losing a bit of efficiency.
Depending on your boiler you might be able to set it to run at different temperatures depending on what is calling for heat, but if two things are both calling at the same time you will get the hotter flow temp.
Mine runs at about 65 for the hot water and 30 for the ufh. On the rare occasions they are both calling for heat then the ufh manifold thermostats cool the inlet temps but this is very rare as the hot water is set to come on for 30 mins at about 5am and is off again before the ufh is starting to bring the slab temp back up.
If you are running both systems morning and evening you will be losing a bit of efficiency.
The Neostats work with floor probes?
I think with UFH, it's often a waste of time controlling solely by room temp, as the delay between heating the slab and heating the room can be significant.
That varies with several factors including how thick the slab is, floor coverings etc.
From my brother's experience with his house, I would say you want as much control as possible at the install stage, it's a lot easier to leave a zone valve permanently on than to retrofit one.
I think with UFH, it's often a waste of time controlling solely by room temp, as the delay between heating the slab and heating the room can be significant.
That varies with several factors including how thick the slab is, floor coverings etc.
From my brother's experience with his house, I would say you want as much control as possible at the install stage, it's a lot easier to leave a zone valve permanently on than to retrofit one.
Ive had Tado since they were a 'start up' so might be biased! But when we moved into the current house and we started to renovate we added UFH downstairs and kept rads upstairs. We have a few diff zones. But basically all the UFH is zoned to most of the rooms and then upstairs is just an 'upstairs' and each room has a normal thermostatic valve.
Our boiler is about 10 years old we think and can't match to what is calling eg Rads or UFH or weather adapt so just have it set at about 65 degs year round, have the manifold set to blend down and no probs at all, I'm sure we could get running more efficient with more kit / zones / diff boiler but bet the payback would be a million years.
Another thing we did was install a mixergy HW system (who doesn't like additional apps to control stuff around your house and annoy your wife). Best thing we did for saving Money so if you have a 'system' and not a combi then I reck there is no better way to achieve a payback!
Our boiler is about 10 years old we think and can't match to what is calling eg Rads or UFH or weather adapt so just have it set at about 65 degs year round, have the manifold set to blend down and no probs at all, I'm sure we could get running more efficient with more kit / zones / diff boiler but bet the payback would be a million years.
Another thing we did was install a mixergy HW system (who doesn't like additional apps to control stuff around your house and annoy your wife). Best thing we did for saving Money so if you have a 'system' and not a combi then I reck there is no better way to achieve a payback!
Why are you planning separate heating control systems upstairs and downstairs?
I converted our heating system to Tado using Tado Smart Thermostats downstairs for the UFH and Tado Smart Radiator Thermostats on the radiators upstairs.
Every room can have a dedicated schedule and we don't set the temps as high upstairs.
Due to being well insulated the upstairs radiators hardly ever need to be warm.
Everything uses early start so in theory on a cold morning everything starts earlier to get to the set temperature by 7am.
There is a small issue that the temperature does overshoot downstairs with the UFH starting at 7am and so there is a 1 hour period at 9am where the temp is set down at 16 deg which prevents the overshoot.
Each UFH zone (room) has a Smart Thermostat which directly connects the to circuit to open the UFH zone valve and fire the boiler.
The Wireless Receiver is the Tado device that connects the zone valve to turn on the radiators zone and another zone value to turn on the hot water zone.
Tip: You MUST use a Wireless Temperature Sensor to control the hot water. There is no physical connection but it has to be there to setup in software. The Wireless Receiver is the device that actually turns on the hot water.
I do not recommend Tado for 2 reasons
1. There are issues with the devices in the far corners of the house being out of range of the Internet Bridge.
2. Tado does not work during an Internet broadband outage.
I converted our heating system to Tado using Tado Smart Thermostats downstairs for the UFH and Tado Smart Radiator Thermostats on the radiators upstairs.
Every room can have a dedicated schedule and we don't set the temps as high upstairs.
Due to being well insulated the upstairs radiators hardly ever need to be warm.
Everything uses early start so in theory on a cold morning everything starts earlier to get to the set temperature by 7am.
There is a small issue that the temperature does overshoot downstairs with the UFH starting at 7am and so there is a 1 hour period at 9am where the temp is set down at 16 deg which prevents the overshoot.
Each UFH zone (room) has a Smart Thermostat which directly connects the to circuit to open the UFH zone valve and fire the boiler.
The Wireless Receiver is the Tado device that connects the zone valve to turn on the radiators zone and another zone value to turn on the hot water zone.
Tip: You MUST use a Wireless Temperature Sensor to control the hot water. There is no physical connection but it has to be there to setup in software. The Wireless Receiver is the device that actually turns on the hot water.
I do not recommend Tado for 2 reasons
1. There are issues with the devices in the far corners of the house being out of range of the Internet Bridge.
2. Tado does not work during an Internet broadband outage.
I have UFH in 2 new extensions and rads in all the original parts of the building. The controller is a 2 zone. The rads are controlled by a central thermostat with TRV's and the UFH is controlled by demand thermostats in each room.
In a practical sense this means the UFH stays throughout the year(zone 1) and the rads get switched off during the summer unless it's a really cold spell(zone 2). Or I just turn the main thermostat down.
Either way the boiler just doesn't come on (apart from hot water a couple of time a day).
If someone has a better solution I'm all ears.
In a practical sense this means the UFH stays throughout the year(zone 1) and the rads get switched off during the summer unless it's a really cold spell(zone 2). Or I just turn the main thermostat down.
Either way the boiler just doesn't come on (apart from hot water a couple of time a day).
If someone has a better solution I'm all ears.
Thanks for the help so far! The reason I am not able to use tado downstairs is that they don’t have a floor sensor or support a floor sensor. I’m told that you need this when laying LVT down so that the floor doesn’t get too hot and doesn’t damage the floor.
Otherwise I was ready to jump in and buy the room stats for tado and why I’m now looking at a hybrid approach as this heatmiser supports a floor sensor
Otherwise I was ready to jump in and buy the room stats for tado and why I’m now looking at a hybrid approach as this heatmiser supports a floor sensor
richatnort said:
they don t have a floor sensor or support a floor sensor. I m told that you need this when laying LVT down so that the floor doesn t get too hot and doesn t damage the floor.
Could you install a physical thermostat between the Tado Smart Thermostat and the UFH actuator?Gassing Station | Homes, Gardens and DIY | Top of Page | What's New | My Stuff