Help with repairing 1930s House bell system
Discussion
HI Everyone,
Hoping that someone out there has had some experience with some old bell/room call systems and can give a bit of advice - my brother in law's house (1930's build) still has the original room call bell system, but it hasn't worked in a long time, and he'd like to fix it (no particular reason, just that's it's one of many nice original features in his house). He's already replaced a lot of the bell wire between the room buttons and the panel (the wire was damaged in most cases) and the room buttons seem to work OK, but the bell/flags on the panel don't work - some start to ring, but not properly and some you can see the wire on the coils are broken and don't work at all.
We don't even know where to start with fixing them - although they all seem pretty simple, can you get replacement coils for the ringers, or can they be re-wound?
Hoping that someone out there has had some experience with some old bell/room call systems and can give a bit of advice - my brother in law's house (1930's build) still has the original room call bell system, but it hasn't worked in a long time, and he'd like to fix it (no particular reason, just that's it's one of many nice original features in his house). He's already replaced a lot of the bell wire between the room buttons and the panel (the wire was damaged in most cases) and the room buttons seem to work OK, but the bell/flags on the panel don't work - some start to ring, but not properly and some you can see the wire on the coils are broken and don't work at all.
We don't even know where to start with fixing them - although they all seem pretty simple, can you get replacement coils for the ringers, or can they be re-wound?
Is the damage to the coils just to the outside layer of wire? The number of turns isn't super critical so if you only have to unwind a few turns it should still work. Failing that you can get enamelled copper wire to re-wind them, although it's probably a fiddly job.
https://duckduckgo.com/?t=ffab&q=enamelled+cop...
https://duckduckgo.com/?t=ffab&q=enamelled+cop...
Mr Pointy said:
Is the damage to the coils just to the outside layer of wire? The number of turns isn't super critical so if you only have to unwind a few turns it should still work. Failing that you can get enamelled copper wire to re-wind them, although it's probably a fiddly job.
https://duckduckgo.com/?t=ffab&q=enamelled+cop...
Yup. To be honest, I'd take the most broken coil apart and measure the wire length. Putting new wire on the old spool became a much quicker and easier job since the invention of the electric drill. https://duckduckgo.com/?t=ffab&q=enamelled+cop...
Coils probably haven't too much damage beyond the outer coil, so more likely than not wouldn't need a full rewind just repairing eg. by pulling back to the break.
Main issue with those looking at the state of them is that they need a good clean to any contacts, and depending on the construction either the plunger (if those have one) or anything else that wants to move. I'd suggest chemically cleaning not mechanically.
Main issue with those looking at the state of them is that they need a good clean to any contacts, and depending on the construction either the plunger (if those have one) or anything else that wants to move. I'd suggest chemically cleaning not mechanically.
JoshSm said:
ATG said:
Is this all running off a transformer at a nice, safe voltage?
Hopefully off a 24V bell transformer? Thanks for the suggestions, we'll try cleaning it up with contact cleaner and pulling wire off the coil until we get a a solid piece as a first try...
We have one which came with the house, buttons were there but the wiring had long since gone.
I've tried to get it to work but failed in that , I get the little flag things to move when power applied, via a bell transformer, it when power is removed they fall back, now I might be wrong but I thought they flags should stay over the window or how would the person responding know where the signal had come from, and then be cleared by that person.
Out of 6 only four would work so I guess some of the coil windings may be damaged.
It is up on a wall and makes a talking point, but it's too late now to be wired in to work without major upheaval.
It has a makers name inside, but the company went broke in the mid 1970s.
I've tried to get it to work but failed in that , I get the little flag things to move when power applied, via a bell transformer, it when power is removed they fall back, now I might be wrong but I thought they flags should stay over the window or how would the person responding know where the signal had come from, and then be cleared by that person.
Out of 6 only four would work so I guess some of the coil windings may be damaged.
It is up on a wall and makes a talking point, but it's too late now to be wired in to work without major upheaval.
It has a makers name inside, but the company went broke in the mid 1970s.
Edited by netherfield on Monday 9th June 14:24
I think 24v may be too much.
Here are some things I downloaded from the internet when I was thinking about making mine work. (instead I removed the mechanisms and used it to hide a consumer unit (until the electrical safety inspector told me off!).
This link is handy: https://www.periodproperty.co.uk/forum/threads/ser...
Here are some things I downloaded from the internet when I was thinking about making mine work. (instead I removed the mechanisms and used it to hide a consumer unit (until the electrical safety inspector told me off!).
This link is handy: https://www.periodproperty.co.uk/forum/threads/ser...
Edited by Sebastian Tombs on Monday 9th June 14:28
netherfield said:
I've tried to get it to work but failed in that , I get the little flag things to move when power applied, via a bell transformer, it when power is removed they fall back, now I might be wrong but I thought they flags should stay over the window or how would the person responding know where the signal had come from, and then be cleared by that person..
Although I've seen a type that requires a manual reset bar being operated, always assumed on these the idea was to get there whilst the flag was still swaying side to side to see where the call has come from (will continue to sway after power removed). I own a few of them, but never used them for more than wall decoration. Original intention was to wire them up.
Danns said:
Although I've seen a type that requires a manual reset bar being operated, always assumed on these the idea was to get there whilst the flag was still swaying side to side to see where the call has come from (will continue to sway after power removed).
I own a few of them, but never used them for more than wall decoration. Original intention was to wire them up.
That's how ours works.I own a few of them, but never used them for more than wall decoration. Original intention was to wire them up.
They're nice things to have, but not as useful as a gong: every house that might merit a call system needs a gong...
JoshSm said:
Sebastian Tombs said:
I think 24v may be too much.
Might be, depends on the system. A lot of bell transformers are multitap so 8V/12V/24V all on one. Unless there is a marking on the coil, start low, and see if 6-8v will fire it would be my suggestion.
As said, most bell transformers are multi-tapped so can do a range of voltages.
Danns said:
Although I've seen a type that requires a manual reset bar being operated, always assumed on these the idea was to get there whilst the flag was still swaying side to side to see where the call has come from (will continue to sway after power removed).
I own a few of them, but never used them for more than wall decoration. Original intention was to wire them up.
That was my understanding, it required you to be in the room, hear the first bell, and then look at the flag when its pressed a second time.I own a few of them, but never used them for more than wall decoration. Original intention was to wire them up.
Predating this was manaual bell pulls, with a draw wire from each pull cord, back to a bank of bells on springs. So again you have to get there before the bell stops bouncing!
This is one such example local to us.
https://www.alamy.com/detail-of-the-brass-servants...
Now this thread has got me thinking of pubs and the call systems.
I'm of an age where there were still a few pubs about with a call system, usually only in the tap room, and even after most had stopped using the idea the push buttons were still evident on the wall until the pubs got renovated.
But now I don't know what was behind the bar to alert the publican, one pub 'The Bulls Head' had multiple small rooms all with buttons on the wall, so the bar area must have had someway of telling which room was calling. Pay wasn't brilliant, but the tips made up for that, many would give an order and 'have one yourself' or have the change on a tray swimming with slops of beer, customer didn't fancy picking it out and would say 'keep the change'.
I'm of an age where there were still a few pubs about with a call system, usually only in the tap room, and even after most had stopped using the idea the push buttons were still evident on the wall until the pubs got renovated.
But now I don't know what was behind the bar to alert the publican, one pub 'The Bulls Head' had multiple small rooms all with buttons on the wall, so the bar area must have had someway of telling which room was calling. Pay wasn't brilliant, but the tips made up for that, many would give an order and 'have one yourself' or have the change on a tray swimming with slops of beer, customer didn't fancy picking it out and would say 'keep the change'.
netherfield said:
Now this thread has got me thinking of pubs and the call systems.
.... or have the change on a tray swimming with slops of beer, customer didn't fancy picking it out and would say 'keep the change'.
Ha, nice! What sort of time/age was that? Presumably asimular display to that used here? Why reinvent the wheel. .... or have the change on a tray swimming with slops of beer, customer didn't fancy picking it out and would say 'keep the change'.
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