Any barn conversion experts?
Discussion
PH seems to know everything and have so many experts and people with experience. This would be new to me despite having done several renovations, so happy to hear all input and negatives as well as positives.
In short, viewed a barn with amazing car/workshop ready outbuildings with full PP granted to convert to a 3 bed home.
It s a plot on what s now an ex dairy farm.
PP would mean installing septic tank. There is electricity and water on site, and newly built houses next door (also a former plot from the same farm), so I m assuming connections to services wouldn t be a total ballache (I.e. it s not just in a field miles from anything).
My partner could do some of the work: insulation, boarding, cladding, dealing with all the beams and is generally super practical. We have help too but would certainly need scaffolding, a roofer and other things I am probably not even aware of.
Obvious questions are around time and cost (I know!), I have around 150-200k in my head, but mostly, what do I need to consider/investigate/be sure of before I make an offer?
In short, viewed a barn with amazing car/workshop ready outbuildings with full PP granted to convert to a 3 bed home.
It s a plot on what s now an ex dairy farm.
PP would mean installing septic tank. There is electricity and water on site, and newly built houses next door (also a former plot from the same farm), so I m assuming connections to services wouldn t be a total ballache (I.e. it s not just in a field miles from anything).
My partner could do some of the work: insulation, boarding, cladding, dealing with all the beams and is generally super practical. We have help too but would certainly need scaffolding, a roofer and other things I am probably not even aware of.
Obvious questions are around time and cost (I know!), I have around 150-200k in my head, but mostly, what do I need to consider/investigate/be sure of before I make an offer?
Edited by FLGirl on Wednesday 25th June 16:17
I suspect most of your budget figure would have gone by the time you have it structurally stable and waterproof 
.
I have done one barn conversion and it chewed up over £150k despite being a solid building with a good roof in the first place, smaller than the one in your pictures looks, and it was 18 years ago.
Tread with care.
.I have done one barn conversion and it chewed up over £150k despite being a solid building with a good roof in the first place, smaller than the one in your pictures looks, and it was 18 years ago.
Tread with care.
I did one a few years ago and am just about to embark on another (much more ambitious one). Some random thoughts:
Is it definitely PP, or really Class Q (PD)?
What does the permission say you have to retain?
What sort of square footage is it?
Any investigations undertaken into foundations? Digging out to incorporate modern insulation can lead to underpinning being needed if they're not deep enough... not the end of the world, but adds time and cost.
From experience with other projects, wooden structures (especially old one with "character") can be a nightmare to get structural engineers to advise on: almost nothing will be standard sized, it'll all be undersized vs modern designs. You may need a "conservation" structural engineer or be prepared to augment the structure significantly.
Do get quotes for utilities. Ours was also very close to neighbours... but a lack of capacity on the transformer meant, iirc, £20k cost to connect (we had to pay for a chunk of the new transformer's cost).
Depending on how/where you want to discharge, you might well end up steered towards a packaged waste treatment system instead of septic. No big deal.
Things may have changed but insurers were twitchy about metal roof (we had ours replaced with standing seam zinc, done by one of the best in the business, and the insurers couldn't get their head around it not being slate/tile).
Above all, the one thing I would urge you to look at is thermal management. Ours was very heavily PIR insulated (super cheap to heat in winter) but an absence of thermal mass meant that summers made it rather warm. If I were doing it again I'd likely plan to have underfloor cooling (as well as heating) provision made when the UFH heating pipe design was done: just up the pipe density.
Is it definitely PP, or really Class Q (PD)?
What does the permission say you have to retain?
What sort of square footage is it?
Any investigations undertaken into foundations? Digging out to incorporate modern insulation can lead to underpinning being needed if they're not deep enough... not the end of the world, but adds time and cost.
From experience with other projects, wooden structures (especially old one with "character") can be a nightmare to get structural engineers to advise on: almost nothing will be standard sized, it'll all be undersized vs modern designs. You may need a "conservation" structural engineer or be prepared to augment the structure significantly.
Do get quotes for utilities. Ours was also very close to neighbours... but a lack of capacity on the transformer meant, iirc, £20k cost to connect (we had to pay for a chunk of the new transformer's cost).
Depending on how/where you want to discharge, you might well end up steered towards a packaged waste treatment system instead of septic. No big deal.
Things may have changed but insurers were twitchy about metal roof (we had ours replaced with standing seam zinc, done by one of the best in the business, and the insurers couldn't get their head around it not being slate/tile).
Above all, the one thing I would urge you to look at is thermal management. Ours was very heavily PIR insulated (super cheap to heat in winter) but an absence of thermal mass meant that summers made it rather warm. If I were doing it again I'd likely plan to have underfloor cooling (as well as heating) provision made when the UFH heating pipe design was done: just up the pipe density.
FLGirl said:
Thanks both, good starting point.
No the only restorable thing in it is the beams!
I’ve seen enough grand designs to know that the barn in the pics is fNo the only restorable thing in it is the beams!
ked and this is going to cost an arm and a leg. At least double your £250k estimate. I can’t wait for the built thread.
Yeah that looks like a start again job.
We did a stone barn conversion 15-16 years ago, 350m2 and the build cost £250k. We didn’t need to do much to the stone structure but everything else was new. That was doing a lot of donkey work myself, buying most of the materials myself (shopping around and bargaining) and using local labour. It took 3 years so definitely not fast but cheap, good quality and done right.
Remember the Project Management law. Fast, Cheap, Good. Pick any two.
We did a stone barn conversion 15-16 years ago, 350m2 and the build cost £250k. We didn’t need to do much to the stone structure but everything else was new. That was doing a lot of donkey work myself, buying most of the materials myself (shopping around and bargaining) and using local labour. It took 3 years so definitely not fast but cheap, good quality and done right.
Remember the Project Management law. Fast, Cheap, Good. Pick any two.
BoRED S2upid said:
What are they asking for it? From the looks of it it s just wood and metal cladding so it s basically a building plot it s not as if there are brick walls and foundations you can use.
Yes. Some of the timbers may have a novelty value and could be re-used however it's hard to see form practical, aesthetic and financial aspects how anything other than complete demolition could be considered.How big will the finished house be? 150m2 at £500,000??
I would budget for a new build, if you can save anything then that’s a bonus and might help after you blow all your contingency before getting up to damp course.
Depending on how much PM or work you do yourself anywhere between £2k-£3k sq m if you already have most of an access road and services.
Depending on how much PM or work you do yourself anywhere between £2k-£3k sq m if you already have most of an access road and services.
There's not a great deal there to preserve. I suspect you might be best off dismantling the whole thing, keeping any bits of the frame that you'd want to reuse for their character, then put in proper foundations and slab, and go from there. The cost will be pretty much the same as building a timber framed structure from scratch, as that'll really be what you're doing.
FLGirl said:
PH seems to know everything and have so many experts and people with experience. This would be new to me despite having done several renovations, so happy to hear all input and negatives as well as positives.
In short, viewed a barn with amazing car/workshop ready outbuildings with full PP granted to convert to a 3 bed home.
It s a plot on what s now an ex dairy farm.
PP would mean installing septic tank. There is electricity and water on site, and newly built houses next door (also a former plot from the same farm), so I m assuming connections to services wouldn t be a total ballache (I.e. it s not just in a field miles from anything).
My partner could do some of the work: insulation, boarding, cladding, dealing with all the beams and is generally super practical. We have help too but would certainly need scaffolding, a roofer and other things I am probably not even aware of.
Obvious questions are around time and cost (I know!), I have around 150-200k in my head, but mostly, what do I need to consider/investigate/be sure of before I make an offer?
Just 2 bits of advice:In short, viewed a barn with amazing car/workshop ready outbuildings with full PP granted to convert to a 3 bed home.
It s a plot on what s now an ex dairy farm.
PP would mean installing septic tank. There is electricity and water on site, and newly built houses next door (also a former plot from the same farm), so I m assuming connections to services wouldn t be a total ballache (I.e. it s not just in a field miles from anything).
My partner could do some of the work: insulation, boarding, cladding, dealing with all the beams and is generally super practical. We have help too but would certainly need scaffolding, a roofer and other things I am probably not even aware of.
Obvious questions are around time and cost (I know!), I have around 150-200k in my head, but mostly, what do I need to consider/investigate/be sure of before I make an offer?
Edited by FLGirl on Wednesday 25th June 16:17
The first is to establish what the value of a three bed house would be on that plot when complete. Deduct from that what the vendor is asking and that number will be much lower than the cost to reach that point. In other words, if it were commercially viable then the current owner would have done the conversion. They're selling it because it isn't.
The second bit of advice is under no circumstances mention to my first boss that you are thinking of converting a barn as you'll be stuck for three years listening to a f
king loon banging on about barn owls and how barn conversions are the work of the devil. He also had terrible halitosis. To be honest, that structure looks f
ked and will cost considerably more than bulldozing and starting from scratch. There's a lot of barn conversions on the market in Devon'n'Cornwall right now, elsewhere too I'd guess. Maybe look at a few and consider what living there would actually be like?
Many are too close to other dwellings for the price.
Many have compromises like bizarre room sizes, small windows etc.
Some are way too close to working farmyards.
Agriculture is a noisy industry in parts and has no respect for weekends or early mornings.
A few are really nice, and I nearly bought one.
A friend of a friend has just got planning permission to convert a barn on his farm, after 6 years of applications and appeals.
The planning can be quite onerous, requiring a lot of 'stuff' to be kept.
This makes everything hard work.
The work can be expensive and complicated, resulting in slow progress.
A lot of these things are listed buildings which is anorak bureaucrat hell.
It's like being a self-build nutjob with one hand tied behind your back.
Also think hard about the exterior space. The barn conversion we were keen to buy was on a sloping site, giving great views and had a decent private garden and an orchard. Separate garage and some outbuildings. The right distance from a road with fair access to major routes. It sold very quickly while many have been on the market a year.
Many are too close to other dwellings for the price.
Many have compromises like bizarre room sizes, small windows etc.
Some are way too close to working farmyards.
Agriculture is a noisy industry in parts and has no respect for weekends or early mornings.
A few are really nice, and I nearly bought one.
A friend of a friend has just got planning permission to convert a barn on his farm, after 6 years of applications and appeals.
The planning can be quite onerous, requiring a lot of 'stuff' to be kept.
This makes everything hard work.
The work can be expensive and complicated, resulting in slow progress.
A lot of these things are listed buildings which is anorak bureaucrat hell.
It's like being a self-build nutjob with one hand tied behind your back.
Also think hard about the exterior space. The barn conversion we were keen to buy was on a sloping site, giving great views and had a decent private garden and an orchard. Separate garage and some outbuildings. The right distance from a road with fair access to major routes. It sold very quickly while many have been on the market a year.
I bought a converted barn nearly 20 years ago, it had been converted some 10 years before. Here’s my view on what it was like to own and live in one.
Insurance can be tricky depending on percentage of timber construction and you’ll probably have to find a specialist insurer…and it’ll cost more than a traditional house
Services nearly always off grid so expect to pay big bucks to bring them in
Expect hefty heating bills as you’re paying to heat lots of empty roof space just so people can see all those lovely beams (I’d like at GSHP or ASHP underfloor systems now rather than gas or oil fired wet systems)
During winter they never really get warm enough despite numerous wood burners to supplement heating
Summertime…lovely places to live in but it’s a short season in the U.K.
Do I regret buying one…no but would I buy another…definitely not!
Insurance can be tricky depending on percentage of timber construction and you’ll probably have to find a specialist insurer…and it’ll cost more than a traditional house
Services nearly always off grid so expect to pay big bucks to bring them in
Expect hefty heating bills as you’re paying to heat lots of empty roof space just so people can see all those lovely beams (I’d like at GSHP or ASHP underfloor systems now rather than gas or oil fired wet systems)
During winter they never really get warm enough despite numerous wood burners to supplement heating
Summertime…lovely places to live in but it’s a short season in the U.K.
Do I regret buying one…no but would I buy another…definitely not!
Looks like this one, doubt your budget will suffice.
https://bloomfieldsltd.co.uk/case-studies/conversi...
https://bloomfieldsltd.co.uk/case-studies/conversi...
Edited by LivLL on Thursday 26th June 14:43
FLGirl said:
Obvious questions are around time and cost (I know!), I have around 150-200k in my head, but mostly, what do I need to consider/investigate/be sure of before I make an offer?
Is that total budget or just to first fix? My mother in law has just spent £150k getting from 1st fix to completion on a 1970s bungalow that needed zero structure work.£200k isnt going to get you far on a project that big, structural costs will mount up quickly.
Far cheaper to demolish and rebuild if PP allows, than budget for £2-3k per sq meter depending on how fancy you want fit and finish to be.
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