Flat buying issue, help please

Flat buying issue, help please

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Race2the Redline

Original Poster:

477 posts

236 months

Thursday 30th April 2009
quotequote all
I am just in the process of purchasing my first flat (contained within a block of 6) The purchase price included a renewal of the lease up to the maximum term of 99 year term.

Today I received a letter from my solicitor in conjunction with the ‘Deed of surrender and lease’

I will quote directly from the letter from my solicitor:

“Having had the opportunity to consider the proposed Deed myself, I note that the matter is proceeding by way of a grant under the Leasehold Reform Housing and Urban Development Act of 1993.

I would refer you to the Third section of the draft deed in particular the provisions of clause 6(G). This provides that even though the least is to be extended, the landlord may at any time not earlier than 12 months before the 24th March 2070 and at any time during the period of 5 years ending on the 24th March 2160 apply to the court for repossession of the property on the grounds that the landlords wish to redevelop it or intend to demolish or reconstruct it.

The consequence of this right being granted to the landlord should be self explanatory. It means that in 60 years time the landlords could take possession of the property from you if they can establish that they intend to redevelop, demolish or reconstruct the whole or a substantial part of the building. It may be that the landlords do not exercise this right but it is something that you must take into consideration."

Thank you to anyone who has taken the time to read this, I’d appreciate any advice/help. Is it time to cut my losses based on this not being the deal I originally negotiated and it haven taken this long for the information to come to light.

R2TR

Neil_H

15,323 posts

253 months

Thursday 30th April 2009
quotequote all
Persnally I'm of the opinion that if you have any doubts - walk away. That would put some serious doubts in my mind.

Edit: I've just read again the part about it not coming into effect for 60 years - that's probably not a major issue.

Edited by Neil_H on Thursday 30th April 20:31

Snake the Sniper

2,544 posts

203 months

Thursday 30th April 2009
quotequote all
Do you intend to be there in 60 years? I can see why it would raise an eyebrow or two, but equally it is for a time a fair way off.

Race2the Redline

Original Poster:

477 posts

236 months

Thursday 30th April 2009
quotequote all
Snake the Sniper said:
Do you intend to be there in 60 years? I can see why it would raise an eyebrow or two, but equally it is for a time a fair way off.
certainly not, circa 2 years, I am concerned about the resale value of the property based on this clause in the lease.

R2TR

grumbledoak

31,609 posts

235 months

Thursday 30th April 2009
quotequote all
Is it worth buying for two years? Surely the stamp duty would be more than two years rent?

Relatively short leaseholds can be hard to mortgage/sell. Sixty years isn't long in that sense...

Edited by grumbledoak on Thursday 30th April 20:53

Davel

8,982 posts

260 months

Thursday 30th April 2009
quotequote all
If the Landlord did seek to re-possess the property, would you or the then owner be entitled to compensation of any type.

I know that it might be 60 years or more away, but if there was no compensation, the investment would surely then be valueless and your investemnt would devalue in time.

davidjpowell

17,918 posts

186 months

Thursday 30th April 2009
quotequote all
I would ask your solicitor for more information on this. Look for example in 20 years time, so 40 years remaining, the lease at this time is beginning to depreciate, and lenders would be concerned that they are lending on a asset which in 20 years time is worth less. Some lenders have minimum lease terms that they will lend on.

I suspect that these same lenders may not accept this clause. Don't ask men on internet - ask your solicitor it is why you are paying him

grumbledoak

31,609 posts

235 months

Thursday 30th April 2009
quotequote all
davidjpowell said:
Don't ask men on internet - ask your solicitor it is why you are paying him
hehe Spoken like a solicitor!

Nothing wrong with asking, but you'd be better with a professional opinion. 'scotal' works in this arena, and if you can get him to contribute, and possibly PM him your numbers, he normally gives straight advice.

Right now, I'd imagine he's in DD's and thoroughly plastered. hehe

Race2the Redline

Original Poster:

477 posts

236 months

Thursday 30th April 2009
quotequote all
grumbledoak said:
Is it worth buying for two years? Surely the stamp duty would be more than two years rent?

Relatively short leaseholds can be hard to mortgage/sell. Sixty years isn't long in that sense...

Edited by grumbledoak on Thursday 30th April 20:53
Under the stamp duty threshold, and I may keep the property on as an investment. Two years was really just a guess from me.

R2TR

Race2the Redline

Original Poster:

477 posts

236 months

Thursday 30th April 2009
quotequote all
davidjpowell said:
I would ask your solicitor for more information on this. Look for example in 20 years time, so 40 years remaining, the lease at this time is beginning to depreciate, and lenders would be concerned that they are lending on a asset which in 20 years time is worth less. Some lenders have minimum lease terms that they will lend on.

I suspect that these same lenders may not accept this clause. Don't ask men on internet - ask your solicitor it is why you are paying him
David, my solicitor has indeed written to my mortgage provider to make them aware of the change.

I appreciate the comment about the asking my solicitor and having only received the letter this evening I will be speaking to him first thing tomorrow morning, I just though I would take the opportunity to ask the advice of the oft very knowledgeable people of Piston heads beforehand.

R2TR

Neil_H

15,323 posts

253 months

Friday 1st May 2009
quotequote all
Race2the Redline said:
davidjpowell said:
I would ask your solicitor for more information on this. Look for example in 20 years time, so 40 years remaining, the lease at this time is beginning to depreciate, and lenders would be concerned that they are lending on a asset which in 20 years time is worth less. Some lenders have minimum lease terms that they will lend on.

I suspect that these same lenders may not accept this clause. Don't ask men on internet - ask your solicitor it is why you are paying him
David, my solicitor has indeed written to my mortgage provider to make them aware of the change.

I appreciate the comment about the asking my solicitor and having only received the letter this evening I will be speaking to him first thing tomorrow morning, I just though I would take the opportunity to ask the advice of the oft very knowledgeable people of Piston heads beforehand.

R2TR
What a shame your post got moved to 'Homes, Garden & DIY' then, otherwise you may have actually got some.

Race2the Redline

Original Poster:

477 posts

236 months

Friday 1st May 2009
quotequote all
Neil_H said:
Race2the Redline said:
davidjpowell said:
I would ask your solicitor for more information on this. Look for example in 20 years time, so 40 years remaining, the lease at this time is beginning to depreciate, and lenders would be concerned that they are lending on a asset which in 20 years time is worth less. Some lenders have minimum lease terms that they will lend on.

I suspect that these same lenders may not accept this clause. Don't ask men on internet - ask your solicitor it is why you are paying him
David, my solicitor has indeed written to my mortgage provider to make them aware of the change.

I appreciate the comment about the asking my solicitor and having only received the letter this evening I will be speaking to him first thing tomorrow morning, I just though I would take the opportunity to ask the advice of the oft very knowledgeable people of Piston heads beforehand.

R2TR
What a shame your post got moved to 'Homes, Garden & DIY' then, otherwise you may have actually got some.
All I can hope is that specialists in this area still frequent these forums now they have been divided down like this frown

R2TR

sjj84

2,390 posts

221 months

Friday 1st May 2009
quotequote all
The way that reads to me is the agreed extension of the lease to 99 years is pretty much worthless and you are only guarenteed to 60 years. Although it won't be of great concern to you if you aren't going to live there for too long, but I would have thought it would have a fairly significant affect on the price and quite possibly your mortgage offer.

Race2the Redline

Original Poster:

477 posts

236 months

Friday 1st May 2009
quotequote all
sjj84 said:
The way that reads to me is the agreed extension of the lease to 99 years is pretty much worthless and you are only guarenteed to 60 years. Although it won't be of great concern to you if you aren't going to live there for too long, but I would have thought it would have a fairly significant affect on the price and quite possibly your mortgage offer.
Agreed, the situation makes no sense to me, the property currently has 73 years on the lease and the bill was due to be 10k to renew the lease to 99 years, now it seem that only pays for the a chance of it being 99 years, it could actually reduce the lease on the property.

I have a call with the solicitor scheduled for midday to try and answer some of the questions.

R2TR

davidjpowell

17,918 posts

186 months

Friday 1st May 2009
quotequote all
grumbledoak said:
davidjpowell said:
Don't ask men on internet - ask your solicitor it is why you are paying him
hehe Spoken like a solicitor!

hehe
Nope a Surveyor.

Race2the Redline

Original Poster:

477 posts

236 months

Friday 1st May 2009
quotequote all
davidjpowell said:
grumbledoak said:
davidjpowell said:
Don't ask men on internet - ask your solicitor it is why you are paying him
hehe Spoken like a solicitor!

hehe
Nope a Surveyor.
Well I didn't have any problems with the Surveyor, so far the most efficient part of this whole process.

R2TR

Edited by Race2the Redline on Friday 1st May 15:31

davidjpowell

17,918 posts

186 months

Friday 1st May 2009
quotequote all
As it should be we are under the thumb and for resi very tight timescales. If only the solictors could be as quick.....

Race2the Redline

Original Poster:

477 posts

236 months

Monday 4th May 2009
quotequote all
davidjpowell said:
As it should be we are under the thumb and for resi very tight timescales. If only the solictors could be as quick.....
Absolutely, I couldn't even get 5 minutes of time with mine to answer my questions Friday despite trying all day.

R2TR

Race2the Redline

Original Poster:

477 posts

236 months

Friday 8th May 2009
quotequote all
Just to bring this to a conclusion and thank anyone who provided help, I finally managed to speak with my solicitor and will be pulling out from the sale. frown

R2TR