Child’s first fish(es)
Discussion
Turn7 said:
Your LFS should be able to test all the parameters for a tiny fee, assuming they are worth a w
k that is.
The strips are "ok" but more accurate kits are available.....
Regularly test:
Ammonia
Nitrite
Nitrate
Ph
But the top too are the killers......Fish cannot tolerate any levels of either Nitrite or Ammo.....
Get one of these. k that is.The strips are "ok" but more accurate kits are available.....
Regularly test:
Ammonia
Nitrite
Nitrate
Ph
But the top too are the killers......Fish cannot tolerate any levels of either Nitrite or Ammo.....
https://www.pro-shrimp.co.uk/water-tests/790-api-f...
It will last you a very long time, so a good investment if you intend to keep up the hobby with your kids.
On startups over the last 5 years or so, I have always used a fish-in process supported by Tetra Safe Start live bacteria. Never had a failure. Even used it when I went away on holiday and one of my tanks on a single filter had a filter failure. Sadly the auto feeder did not fail, so you can imagine the mess.
Came home to mainly fish soup with a few live ones struggling. 90% water change three times in one day to get it all out, scrub down and gravel clean. Basically a new tank. Safe Start in and all was well going forward with the survivors and restocking over a few weeks.
One thing about Safe Start, don’t test your water for 2 weeks or you will have a baby! The reading are wildly inaccurate. Also as advised on the packaging, you don’t do any water changes for two weeks. It has been a major discovery for me in over 40 years of fishkeeping. Being just bacteria, you can’t overdose it and can add it at any time you suspect a bacterial/biological issue in your tank.
Crossflow Kid said:
True. That was my only reasoning. Maybe it was right at the limit and thus didn’t take much to topple.
Now it’s sitting (just) below that limit?
'Limits' are somewhat variable... Now it’s sitting (just) below that limit?
In a healthy mature system, the bacteria load can adapt pretty quickly to changing needs - I've noticed that I've had a pretty big dead Amano Shrimp in my little 37l for a 'while' judging from it's remains - yet zero visible impact on fish or water quality... Previously, missing that would have lead to a dead tank.
I've also friends running African cichlid aquariums that are 'massively' overstocked - yet they've sufficient filter capacity and do enough water changes to keep everyone happy.
The first six or so months are the critical/danger months - everything is pretty precarious, and not sufficiently embedded/mature to cope with changes. I've even seen tank crashes due to removing fish - as it lead to a rapid death of bacteria, and the resulting pollutants toxifying the water.
Crossflow Kid said:
True. That was my only reasoning. Maybe it was right at the limit and thus didn’t take much to topple.
Now it’s sitting (just) below that limit?
Have you tested the water straight out of the tap? At my last place the “fresh” water supply was absolutely disgusting on levels and was so hard (chalk area) it came out in cubes. So I used reverse osmosis water with the important added freshwater minerals purchased from everyone’s most hated chain supplier (my experience differs with my local place - very good knowledgable staff). It didn’t break the bank at 20 litres a week and provided me with an opportunity for a weekly look around the store with impulse purchases... much to the disgust of the missus. However, she quite likes the other shrimp nano tank now Now it’s sitting (just) below that limit?
I used to have my own RO setup when I did marines some years back. Absolute necessity with a large tank and a 20% change weekly.
Give the fish a treat and try some RO water changes if your tap water is showing high levels. If you are getting, for example 40ppm nitrate straight out of the tap, then you are clearly never going to get below that level even with water changes. Same for other readings such as Ph without a lot of fiddly peat or similar approaches etc.
I'd highly recommend a product called Seachem Prime. It dechlorinates tap water, removes metals, binds Ammonia and Nitrite so they're not harmful to inhabitants. It seems expensive compared to the rest of the dechlorinators but you will literally need a few drops for the whole tank. You will still be going throught the notrogen cycle so will need to do daily/ every other day water changes. There's a mantra I was told early on "Dilution is the solution to pollution" At the minute, you have pollution (newly set up tank) so you need to do lots of water changes. I had rubbish advice when I first started and lost quite a few fish but things do get stable sooner or later and once they are, unless you're an idiot, it's very stable. If you're on FB, there are some really good groups out there (this is where I learnt pretty much everything I know now)
Crossflow Kid said:
Jesus Christ! I’m turning in to Chemical Ali.
Don't over complicate it. These are hardy fish that cost about £3. They're not wild caught discus or ramirezi.The two main things are:
1 Do a water change of 10-20% a week with water that has been treated with Prime or Stresscoat+, (or some other quality tap safe type product which removes both chlorine and ammonia.)
2 Don't over feed.
To keep the filters in good order, just clean them out in old tank water once every month or two. That just means holding the spongey filter pads under the water and squeezing any fish poo out. Don't run them under the tap (chlorine might nuke the biofilter). Also don't replace them with new ones as you will be starting all over again with your bacteria cycle.
budgie smuggler said:
Crossflow Kid said:
Jesus Christ! I’m turning in to Chemical Ali.
Don't over complicate it. These are hardy fish that cost about £3. They're not wild caught discus or ramirezi.The two main things are:
1 Do a water change of 10-20% a week with water that has been treated with Prime or Stresscoat+, (or some other quality tap safe type product which removes both chlorine and ammonia.)
2 Don't over feed.
To keep the filters in good order, just clean them out in old tank water once every month or two. That just means holding the spongey filter pads under the water and squeezing any fish poo out. Don't run them under the tap (chlorine might nuke the biofilter). Also don't replace them with new ones as you will be starting all over again with your bacteria cycle.
Crossflow Kid said:
Yep, have already stockpiled some old water in anticipation of an impending filter clean.
Feeding regime also reduced.
If you clean the filter when you do a water change, you shouldn’t have to stockpile water. Simply wash the filter media in what you have just taken out before you tip it away. I have a bucket for outgoing and two purpose purchased plastic containers for prepared water going in. I just use the outgoing bucket as the filter clean place.Feeding regime also reduced.
I just had a major incident this afternoon with my pond and inherited fish. Earlier I heard an enormous splash. Didn’t really pay any attention to it. Went out for a smoke about 3 hours later and there is a large fish laying on top of the mesh. I have no idea how it got there, the pond is well and tightly covered and the fish is too big to get through the mesh. Thought Initially that it may not be one of mine and have been dropped by a predator - we had a very large dead Koi in the sea at the bottom of the garden a while back which was clearly from elsewhere.
Anyway, I had a look, he looked dead but then I noticed a very slight movement on the gills. I quickly ripped the covers off and dumped him back in. He floated on top upside down. Over the first 1/4 of an hour, his gills were moving more and more. Then after a further 10minutes he flapped his pectoral fins a bit - still upside down. A few minutes later, he had rolled onto his side and was seemingly trying to use his tail. I had a 30 minute call and when I popped back out he was swimming fine the right way up!
Problem is, I should really get him into a hospital tank for a salt bath. However I have no spare tank or anything big enough and clean enough, so I will just have to keep an eye on him for a while, and maybe add some stress coat to the pond hoping there are no nasties to exploit his condition.
if you haven't already, i highly recommend getting a gravel vacuum to do water changes with... the amount of poo and rubbish that settles in the gravel is astounding.
They usually have a pipe attached so that you can siphon off the dirty water and debris at the same time to a nearby bucket.. i did manage to get the odd mouthful of tank water starting the siphon off though, so watch out for that
They usually have a pipe attached so that you can siphon off the dirty water and debris at the same time to a nearby bucket.. i did manage to get the odd mouthful of tank water starting the siphon off though, so watch out for that
designforlife said:
if you haven't already, i highly recommend getting a gravel vacuum to do water changes with... the amount of poo and rubbish that settles in the gravel is astounding.
They usually have a pipe attached so that you can siphon off the dirty water and debris at the same time to a nearby bucket.. i did manage to get the odd mouthful of tank water starting the siphon off though, so watch out for that
Yep, I had that once too, I then bought one with a hand pump on it to start it off. It is surprising how much sThey usually have a pipe attached so that you can siphon off the dirty water and debris at the same time to a nearby bucket.. i did manage to get the odd mouthful of tank water starting the siphon off though, so watch out for that
t is in the gravel. Give it a good poke with the vacuum and you'll see all the crap that comes out.eybic said:
designforlife said:
if you haven't already, i highly recommend getting a gravel vacuum to do water changes with... the amount of poo and rubbish that settles in the gravel is astounding.
They usually have a pipe attached so that you can siphon off the dirty water and debris at the same time to a nearby bucket.. i did manage to get the odd mouthful of tank water starting the siphon off though, so watch out for that
Yep, I had that once too, I then bought one with a hand pump on it to start it off. It is surprising how much sThey usually have a pipe attached so that you can siphon off the dirty water and debris at the same time to a nearby bucket.. i did manage to get the odd mouthful of tank water starting the siphon off though, so watch out for that
t is in the gravel. Give it a good poke with the vacuum and you'll see all the crap that comes out.Been using it for years without issue and makes it much quicker to do.
Or if you don’t want to spend money on a fancy gravel filter...
Cut the top 1/3 off a 1liter plastic bottle. Drill a hole through the bottle cap and stick some plastic tube through it. You’ll have to suck the other end of tube to syphon, but it’ll do the same job as the gravel filter more or less.
Cut the top 1/3 off a 1liter plastic bottle. Drill a hole through the bottle cap and stick some plastic tube through it. You’ll have to suck the other end of tube to syphon, but it’ll do the same job as the gravel filter more or less.
otolith said:
Tip for syphoning - if you submerge the pipe in the tank so it fills with water, then put your thumb over one end and pull that end out of the tank, you won't have to do any sucking.
Or, using what can only be described as a "vigorous wking motion" with the tank end, you can start a siphon with a couple of pumps... So nothing died this week.
Marshmallow and Grace seem very happy now there’s just the two of them, although we have had occasional bouts of reclusiveness and lack of feeding.
Water quality remains precarious. Still coming back as hard and with a high Ph.
Nitrates and nitrites came back near-zero.
MrsCFK decided a 100% artificial environment wasn’t ethical for the fish or something, so “we” added a small amount of live foliage. As expected, even though it’s just one small plant, this has turned the water a bit cloudy and given it a proper outdoor pond smell.
Did a 25% water change and a monthly filter clean (
) which improved things.
CFKJnr still engaged, says goodnight to them without prompting
Marshmallow and Grace seem very happy now there’s just the two of them, although we have had occasional bouts of reclusiveness and lack of feeding.
Water quality remains precarious. Still coming back as hard and with a high Ph.
Nitrates and nitrites came back near-zero.
MrsCFK decided a 100% artificial environment wasn’t ethical for the fish or something, so “we” added a small amount of live foliage. As expected, even though it’s just one small plant, this has turned the water a bit cloudy and given it a proper outdoor pond smell.
Did a 25% water change and a monthly filter clean (
) which improved things.CFKJnr still engaged, says goodnight to them without prompting
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