'No Pull Harness' How do they work?
Discussion
DonkeyApple said:
There's no alpha animal to control them. Use the other end of their lead to simulate a nip on the arse from the pack leader. Dogs need to be trained. Pack leader dogs in the wild don't write letters of complaint, don't hire therapists, don't hold interventions etc etc. They simply give the lower ranking dog a good, solid nip and train them to behave. It takes more effort when they are older but it's easy enough to do and unlike the more basic dog to dog method you can make it far less harsh by using rewards for good behaviour. Also, if you have two dogs then just take one out at a time and train it to do what you want. Trying to train both simultaneously will just send you mad with no positive result to show for it. Take a dog out, when it starts to misbehave, give it a correction, make it sit down and then give it a treat for being good. Then go and do the same with the other one until both are retrained and you can then attempt to take them both out together. Good luck. It's easy to do all it takes is proper effort.
Some good points there. I've only just started taking both of ours out together, it's taken 3mths to get the new lad to the stage where I can do it stress free.
DonkeyApple said:
There's no alpha animal to control them. Use the other end of their lead to simulate a nip on the arse from the pack leader. Dogs need to be trained. Pack leader dogs in the wild don't write letters of complaint, don't hire therapists, don't hold interventions etc etc. They simply give the lower ranking dog a good, solid nip and train them to behave. It takes more effort when they are older but it's easy enough to do and unlike the more basic dog to dog method you can make it far less harsh by using rewards for good behaviour. Also, if you have two dogs then just take one out at a time and train it to do what you want. Trying to train both simultaneously will just send you mad with no positive result to show for it. Take a dog out, when it starts to misbehave, give it a correction, make it sit down and then give it a treat for being good. Then go and do the same with the other one until both are retrained and you can then attempt to take them both out together. Good luck. It's easy to do all it takes is proper effort.
I keep hearing so much about how you should never punish your dog, or hit them, poke them etc, as you'll hurt their sensitive nature.... I've never been averse to a good slap across their arse if they really get out of order, but have been a bit wary doing it in public in case some do-good er gets all bent out of shape. We started off walking them together, but some sort of sibling rivalry made it a pain in the neck, really frustrating, they both want to be in front, but get too far in front and they want to wait for the other. If one sniffs something, the other desperately has to dive in and see what it is etc.
Now we always go separately.
First training session is booked for next week, for Blue, and the next available slot for Sky is two weeks later. Between now and then I shall try a little bum cracking with my lead.
King Herald said:
I keep hearing so much about how you should never punish your dog, or hit them, poke them etc, as you'll hurt their sensitive nature.... I've never been averse to a good slap across their arse if they really get out of order, but have been a bit wary doing it in public in case some do-good er gets all bent out of shape.
We started off walking them together, but some sort of sibling rivalry made it a pain in the neck, really frustrating, they both want to be in front, but get too far in front and they want to wait for the other. If one sniffs something, the other desperately has to dive in and see what it is etc.
Now we always go separately.
First training session is booked for next week, for Blue, and the next available slot for Sky is two weeks later. Between now and then I shall try a little bum cracking with my lead.
They only both want to be in front as they both think they are the boss. Once you make them aware that you are their boss then they will walk nicely to heel. We started off walking them together, but some sort of sibling rivalry made it a pain in the neck, really frustrating, they both want to be in front, but get too far in front and they want to wait for the other. If one sniffs something, the other desperately has to dive in and see what it is etc.
Now we always go separately.
First training session is booked for next week, for Blue, and the next available slot for Sky is two weeks later. Between now and then I shall try a little bum cracking with my lead.
As for whacking, poking etc, there's no need for that. It's a quick, sharp slap on the rump that has enough weight for them to notice not to be hurt. There will be human allowed out in public who don't understand how the world works. That's just the modern world. They are like your dogs, not yet fully trained to go out in public and lacking discipline from their owners.
Just make the dog walk alongside you but not infront, keep it on a short lead. When it tries to go ahead just give it a pull back and tell it to sit. If it keeps pulling then give it a little clip on the rump and force it to sit. Then reward it. It really doesn't take much perseverance for a dog to learn who the alpha is and that it isn't them and like a Derby lass they'll do anything for a biscuit.
Edited by DonkeyApple on Wednesday 2nd August 14:33
We have started today. Daughter and I have been trying out commands in the back garden, basis sit and stay stuff, so we will hopefully continue that when we go for the walks later tonight.
I shall try him without the head collar just the long lead, and try out what you have detailed, see how he responds.
Daughter and I have been trying out commands in the back garden, basis sit and stay stuff, so we will hopefully continue that when we go for the walks later tonight. I shall try him without the head collar just the long lead, and try out what you have detailed, see how he responds.
Everyone's entitled to their own opinion of course, and to train their dog as they wish (so long as it is not cruel) but in the interests of balance, I'll just leave this here:
https://positively.com/dog-training/myths-truths/p...
https://positively.com/dog-training/myths-truths/p...
Just another tip was that I find dogs always pull if the lead is tight (tension) but don't pull on a slack lead. If you smartly snap (a long stretchy lead) when it gets tight (ideally one that makes some noise/rattle) and roll them round back to heel (giving the command 'heel' only when they are AT heel) they will always want to keep the lead slack after a few sequences of this. The snap has to be very slightly discomforting but absolutely nothing major - its the shock/noise of it that makes them want to avoid it. Best b £60 I ever spent on an hour with the trainer that showed me this.
My daughter was telling me about the tight lead pulling thing. Trouble with ours is no matter how many times we tug the lead, or pull them back to get some slack, they simply walk forward and take it up again.
When Blue has the head collar on I will crack the chain along his back smartly and that will slow him down a bit. It doesn't work with the road lead, no weight in it. The chain is pretty thin, but he can feel and hear it.
Moorx, there will always be changes in theory I guess. The pack leader thing seems to work with some people, but change is good, if it works.
When Blue has the head collar on I will crack the chain along his back smartly and that will slow him down a bit. It doesn't work with the road lead, no weight in it. The chain is pretty thin, but he can feel and hear it.
Moorx, there will always be changes in theory I guess. The pack leader thing seems to work with some people, but change is good, if it works.
Buzz84 said:
We have stop pull harnesses for both our dogs (A Malamute/GSD Cross and a JR cross) and find that they work well and make a big difference to when we take them out just clipped onto their collars.
The ones we have are: https://www.amazon.co.uk/dp/B0062ME8WG/ref=cm_sw_r...
Cheap enough to give it a try really
After a session at the dog trainers we bought a couple of harnesses very similar to these. They also have the lead attachment ring down the front too, which was what the trainer advised. The ones we have are: https://www.amazon.co.uk/dp/B0062ME8WG/ref=cm_sw_r...
Cheap enough to give it a try really
I was amazed the difference when I first walked my big guy with it on, he just plodded along, no pull at all.
But it didn't last........
By the time we were halfway into our usual 60 minutes he was pulling along like he normally does. I have since tried attaching the leads to both top and bottom loops, and if he pulls I put tension on the lower ring and it sorts of upsets his pace a bit, slowing him down.
Our session with the trainer was, er interesting, trying to teach him not to react to other animals. It involved a toy dog, fairly realistic, and practising distracting their attention from it. I do think my guy cottoned on that it was not a real dog fairly early, so it didn't really work as we hoped.
And having to say "leave it" in a high pitched sort of squeak doesn't really appeal when out on the streets with a 50 kg macho looking Alsatian. I tone it down to a more manly gruff level.
Which he still totally ignores when he gets one on........
Edited by King Herald on Wednesday 23 August 08:47
Head collar went back on tonight, I have given up training Blue, my giant lovable five year old puppy.
We did two hour- long professional training sessions, lots and lots and lots of stopping, "no pulling", pulling the dog back a bit, and carrying on, repeatedly....
And I did it when out with the dog myself, a thousand times. No different. He just glances back to see what is up, then inside four of five paces he is back leaning into the lead.
I've tried the full harness, the choker lead, tried tugging the lead hard every time he pulled. No difference.
So now he is back in the head collar, and we get along fine. I officially give up as a dog trainer.
We did two hour- long professional training sessions, lots and lots and lots of stopping, "no pulling", pulling the dog back a bit, and carrying on, repeatedly....
And I did it when out with the dog myself, a thousand times. No different. He just glances back to see what is up, then inside four of five paces he is back leaning into the lead.
I've tried the full harness, the choker lead, tried tugging the lead hard every time he pulled. No difference.
So now he is back in the head collar, and we get along fine. I officially give up as a dog trainer.
DonkeyApple said:
That's a shame as Alsatians can still be trained when they are old. Smart dogs and very trainable. And personally, when it comes to dogs in public I do feel that their owners have a responsibility to have them fully under control.
He is as harmless as the day is long, don't think I have ever seen him growl or bark. The only problem is that he is big and strong and likes to lean into the lead. Anout 75% of dogs I see get pretty unruly as they come past, usually barking, scrabbling or growling, but Blue very rarely does that now. Just the fact he is 46 kg makes him a chore to walk. I don't think he knows his own strength.
After fighting it out with previous dogs I found a gentle heel training technique that works beautifully and stops pulling. You need to train this with one dog at a time, although once they get the hang of it they'll do it together.
Walk dog at brisk pace with a long-ish lead (6ft), as soon as snout passes your leg sharply turn around and walk briskly the other way. Even a stubborn dog will only get jolted a few times before learning.
Don't pull on the lead, don't even look down at the dog - just keep a firm grip of the lead and pretend they don't exist. It teaches them to keep their eyes on you and puts them in the mindset of you setting the route, rather than them.
If my dogs ever "forget", they'll suddenly find a very heavy stationary weight at the end of the lead and it won't move again until they've calmed down and taken a few steps back. This happens almost immediately with no need for a verbal correction.
I hate tugging/pulling/correcting with the lead and found this method to be the most effective as well as the gentlest.
It also worked perfectly with my dogs for off-lead walking to heel. Do the exact same as above, but off lead... Obviously this will only work if your dog has the slightest inclination in following you off-lead, which I know isn't always true
Walk dog at brisk pace with a long-ish lead (6ft), as soon as snout passes your leg sharply turn around and walk briskly the other way. Even a stubborn dog will only get jolted a few times before learning.
Don't pull on the lead, don't even look down at the dog - just keep a firm grip of the lead and pretend they don't exist. It teaches them to keep their eyes on you and puts them in the mindset of you setting the route, rather than them.
If my dogs ever "forget", they'll suddenly find a very heavy stationary weight at the end of the lead and it won't move again until they've calmed down and taken a few steps back. This happens almost immediately with no need for a verbal correction.
I hate tugging/pulling/correcting with the lead and found this method to be the most effective as well as the gentlest.
It also worked perfectly with my dogs for off-lead walking to heel. Do the exact same as above, but off lead... Obviously this will only work if your dog has the slightest inclination in following you off-lead, which I know isn't always true
A pocket full of dried liver certainly gets their attention.
1 or 2 sharp checks on the lead and a bit of positive reinforcement with food works.
You can if you want hold a piece of food in your left hand with the lead in your right hand and walk like that, it depends how good orientated they are.
1 or 2 sharp checks on the lead and a bit of positive reinforcement with food works.
You can if you want hold a piece of food in your left hand with the lead in your right hand and walk like that, it depends how good orientated they are.
ChocolateFrog said:
1 or 2 sharp checks on the lead and a bit of positive reinforcement with food works.
This "worked" on my GSD after but took at least two years of perseverance to stop her pulling on the lead (I didn't know any better, it was years ago). The Lab is far too delicate and can't cope with even the gentlest tug - he just drops to the ground with his tail between his legs. The Border Collie laughs it off, literally couldn't care less.Technique I posted above had the 6 month old BC walking to heel off-lead within 10 minutes, and only slightly longer for the Lab.
I can't say it will work this quickly for every dog, but it's worth trying for a few days at least...
My GSD was a bugger on the lead. He also only obeyed me, ignoring my wife. So we sent him to Royvon for three weeks. Which was expensive. When he came back he was much calmer and less headstrong, and walked beautifully on the lead. I felt a complete fraud when the first time I walked him someone being dragged down the road by their hound complimented me on it and said he wished he could train his dog so well 
That was more than three years ago. He doesn't walk to heel quite so perfectly now, needs the odd little reminder, but he's basically fine. Except, embarrassingly, if I'm walking with someone else. Then getting in front suddenly becomes important. I think he accepts that I'm in charge but he'll be damned if he's letting some stranger push him down to third!
That was more than three years ago. He doesn't walk to heel quite so perfectly now, needs the odd little reminder, but he's basically fine. Except, embarrassingly, if I'm walking with someone else. Then getting in front suddenly becomes important. I think he accepts that I'm in charge but he'll be damned if he's letting some stranger push him down to third!
I've tried all the above techniques. Suddenly changing direction when he gets a bit 'unruly' has calmed him down from bounding around. He used to switch back and forth sniffing in front, suddenly bound over in front of me to sniff something there, then he would do a 180 and rush off behind me etc.
The 'sudden heavy dead weight at the end of the lead' trick doesn't work too well when the dog is half your own body weight. He tweaked my shoulder painfully a couple of times in early days. I've managed to get him out of that behaviour almost completely, but he forgets occasionally.
I tried the treats technique, but he has no interest in food, snacks or anything when we are out.
He reminds me of a young Scooby Doo at times, dopey, dumbo, a bit thick , but so sweet.
The 'sudden heavy dead weight at the end of the lead' trick doesn't work too well when the dog is half your own body weight. He tweaked my shoulder painfully a couple of times in early days. I've managed to get him out of that behaviour almost completely, but he forgets occasionally.
I tried the treats technique, but he has no interest in food, snacks or anything when we are out.
He reminds me of a young Scooby Doo at times, dopey, dumbo, a bit thick , but so sweet.
a said:
After fighting it out with previous dogs I found a gentle heel training technique that works beautifully and stops pulling. You need to train this with one dog at a time, although once they get the hang of it they'll do it together.
Walk dog at brisk pace with a long-ish lead (6ft), as soon as snout passes your leg sharply turn around and walk briskly the other way. Even a stubborn dog will only get jolted a few times before learning.
Don't pull on the lead, don't even look down at the dog - just keep a firm grip of the lead and pretend they don't exist. It teaches them to keep their eyes on you and puts them in the mindset of you setting the route, rather than them.
If my dogs ever "forget", they'll suddenly find a very heavy stationary weight at the end of the lead and it won't move again until they've calmed down and taken a few steps back. This happens almost immediately with no need for a verbal correction.
I hate tugging/pulling/correcting with the lead and found this method to be the most effective as well as the gentlest.
It also worked perfectly with my dogs for off-lead walking to heel. Do the exact same as above, but off lead... Obviously this will only work if your dog has the slightest inclination in following you off-lead, which I know isn't always true
This pretty much worked for our rescue sprocker, he was on a figure 8 lead when we got him at 12mths old, he walks to heel off lead now (just!) & we've only had him 5mths so he'll get better yet Walk dog at brisk pace with a long-ish lead (6ft), as soon as snout passes your leg sharply turn around and walk briskly the other way. Even a stubborn dog will only get jolted a few times before learning.
Don't pull on the lead, don't even look down at the dog - just keep a firm grip of the lead and pretend they don't exist. It teaches them to keep their eyes on you and puts them in the mindset of you setting the route, rather than them.
If my dogs ever "forget", they'll suddenly find a very heavy stationary weight at the end of the lead and it won't move again until they've calmed down and taken a few steps back. This happens almost immediately with no need for a verbal correction.
I hate tugging/pulling/correcting with the lead and found this method to be the most effective as well as the gentlest.
It also worked perfectly with my dogs for off-lead walking to heel. Do the exact same as above, but off lead... Obviously this will only work if your dog has the slightest inclination in following you off-lead, which I know isn't always true
LordHaveMurci said:
a said:
Walk dog at brisk pace with a long-ish lead (6ft), as soon as snout passes your leg sharply turn around and walk briskly the other way. Even a stubborn dog will only get jolted a few times before learning.
This pretty much worked for our rescue sprocker, he was on a figure 8 lead when we got him at 12mths old, he walks to heel off lead now (just!) & we've only had him 5mths so he'll get better yet Trying to get him behind me is probably impossible. Not even sure I want him trailing behind actually.
He clearly thinks he is your boss and that you are the underling.
When you go for a walk has he been fed? It's very unusual for a dog to not be interested in food. Also, a bit of salami can work wonders.
But it's really all about dominance and at the moment the daft brush isn't comprehending that you're the alpha.
When you go for a walk has he been fed? It's very unusual for a dog to not be interested in food. Also, a bit of salami can work wonders.
But it's really all about dominance and at the moment the daft brush isn't comprehending that you're the alpha.
DonkeyApple said:
He clearly thinks he is your boss and that you are the underling.
When you go for a walk has he been fed? It's very unusual for a dog to not be interested in food. Also, a bit of salami can work wonders.
But it's really all about dominance and at the moment the daft brush isn't comprehending that you're the alpha.
Sorry but... wrong.When you go for a walk has he been fed? It's very unusual for a dog to not be interested in food. Also, a bit of salami can work wonders.
But it's really all about dominance and at the moment the daft brush isn't comprehending that you're the alpha.
He doesn't think he's the boss. It sounds like he just doesn't have good manners, it's like teaching a child to listen to you when crossing a road. Just because they're doing their own thing doesn't mean they're dominating you
. Once the dog learns that you set the route and he only follows, it will be a lot easier. That's why I think it's a good idea to keep going with the method of suddenly changing direction, etc. Staying unpredictable is a good thing, it will keep the dog's eyes on you.I've never had a rescue dog like OP, but I can only imagine that after years of doing things the wrong way it will take extra perseverance to learn the right way with a new family.
And it's not unusual at all for dogs to lack interest in food. Especially outdoors where there are other distractions. The smell of another dog's pee is probably more exciting to most dogs than a bit of salami.
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