Two horses put down at the Grand National
Discussion
bexVN said:
R300will said:
Jasandjules said:
The horses want to run. That's not to say that there is any reason why the fences can not be much lower so they don't actually get badly injured!!
I think its more to do with volume of horses on the course. Added to the fact that its not even a fair start and there are a few reasons to argue its not a fair race. No idea if this is right but it sounds plausible.
What upsets me is I have friends who placed silly one pound bets, because that's what people for the National, they were so proud to win there rubbish payouts not a thought to the dead or injured horses.
I'm proud to say I've never bet on the National (or any horse race for that matter!)
Edited by bexVN on Saturday 14th April 21:43
A previous post said that they fall due to the jockeys unbalancing them but i disagree, granted this could happen on a few occasions when the horse is teetering on the point of balance, but i think it is more to do with the fact that the ones that fall tend to be in the middle of a tight pack where they are jostling for position, and don't see the jump until the horse infront goes over it. This leaves a small amount of time to react to it and so it is easy to misjudge it and therefore get the landing wrong or end up on that fine balance point where the jockey could send them over the edge.
I do bet on races with fair starts i.e. out of a gate released from the same point at the same time rather than jostling about behind some string because, in terms of the national, if you get a good start and some luck you could have a slow horse and still win which isn't really what sport is about imo.
These horses are bred to run, it was the reason they were born. Don't get me wrong, it is very sad, especially for Synchronised who was on for sometihing special and was a character before the race even began.
But, the Grand National will never be stopped, not with 600 million people watching it worldwide, and the UK alone betting around £300 million. Another footballer died today on a pitch in Italy, do you think football will be stopped? and these are humans dying don't forget, I don't think so.
People watch it because it is dangerous and unpredictable, just like Formula 1 used to be. They try to make it as safe as possible, but s
t happens. If you want to be 100% safe just stay on your sofa and never go out, but you'll probably die from some other really stty disease linked to inactivity and lack of stimulation. I imagine our caveman ancestors used to gamble on catching dinner, with the killing spear chuck getting the best cuts of meat, and gamble with their lives and have a bit of excitement going out on the hunt.
People can moan about it every year (and they do), but it won't change a massive worldwide industry, live with it. People die all the time, horses die in races, the differences being they died doing what they were made for, and they just happen to be on telly. Maybe if every car crash that someone dies in was televised people would stop driving?
Take some comfort in the fact that they did not suffer, they would have had so much adrenaline pumping for the race that they would have been put down before they had time to feel much. After watching "Inside natures giants" when they did a racehorse I have the utmost respect for these horses, they really are incredible.
Sad for them to end their racing lives this way, I would much prefer for them to retired off to a field somewhere, but stuff happens. (I bet they get shot when they retire anyway)
But, the Grand National will never be stopped, not with 600 million people watching it worldwide, and the UK alone betting around £300 million. Another footballer died today on a pitch in Italy, do you think football will be stopped? and these are humans dying don't forget, I don't think so.
People watch it because it is dangerous and unpredictable, just like Formula 1 used to be. They try to make it as safe as possible, but s
t happens. If you want to be 100% safe just stay on your sofa and never go out, but you'll probably die from some other really stty disease linked to inactivity and lack of stimulation. I imagine our caveman ancestors used to gamble on catching dinner, with the killing spear chuck getting the best cuts of meat, and gamble with their lives and have a bit of excitement going out on the hunt.People can moan about it every year (and they do), but it won't change a massive worldwide industry, live with it. People die all the time, horses die in races, the differences being they died doing what they were made for, and they just happen to be on telly. Maybe if every car crash that someone dies in was televised people would stop driving?
Take some comfort in the fact that they did not suffer, they would have had so much adrenaline pumping for the race that they would have been put down before they had time to feel much. After watching "Inside natures giants" when they did a racehorse I have the utmost respect for these horses, they really are incredible.
Sad for them to end their racing lives this way, I would much prefer for them to retired off to a field somewhere, but stuff happens. (I bet they get shot when they retire anyway)
Edited by ST170Bird on Saturday 14th April 23:34
ST170Bird said:
These horses are bred to run, it was the reason they were born. Don't get me wrong, it is very sad, especially for Synchronised who was on for sometihing special and was a character before the race even began.
But, the Grand National will never be stopped, not with 600 million people watching it worldwide, and the UK alone betting around £300 million. Another footballer died today on a pitch in Italy, do you think football will be stopped? and these are humans dying don't forget, I don't think so.
People watch it because it is dangerous and unpredictable, just like Formula 1 used to be. They try to make it as safe as possible, but st happens. If you want to be 100% safe just stay on your sofa and never go out, but you'll probably die from some other really stty disease linked to inactivity and lack of stimulation. I imagine our caveman ancestors used to gamble on catching dinner, with the killing spear chuck getting the best cuts of meat, and gamble with their lives and have a bit of excitement going out on the hunt.
People can moan about it every year (and they do), but it won't change a massive worldwide industry, live with it. People die all the time, horses die in races, the differences being they died doing what they were made for, and they just happen to be on telly. Maybe if every car crash that someone dies in was televised people would stop driving?
Take some comfort in the fact that they did not suffer, they would have had so much adrenaline pumping for the race that they would have been put down before they had time to feel much. After watching "Inside natures giants" when they did a racehorse I have the utmost respect for these horses, they really are incredible.
Sad for them to end their racing lives this way, I would much prefer for them to retired off to a field somewhere, but stuff happens. (I bet they get shot when they retire anyway)
Its a bit different to football though to be honest.But, the Grand National will never be stopped, not with 600 million people watching it worldwide, and the UK alone betting around £300 million. Another footballer died today on a pitch in Italy, do you think football will be stopped? and these are humans dying don't forget, I don't think so.
People watch it because it is dangerous and unpredictable, just like Formula 1 used to be. They try to make it as safe as possible, but s
t happens. If you want to be 100% safe just stay on your sofa and never go out, but you'll probably die from some other really stty disease linked to inactivity and lack of stimulation. I imagine our caveman ancestors used to gamble on catching dinner, with the killing spear chuck getting the best cuts of meat, and gamble with their lives and have a bit of excitement going out on the hunt.People can moan about it every year (and they do), but it won't change a massive worldwide industry, live with it. People die all the time, horses die in races, the differences being they died doing what they were made for, and they just happen to be on telly. Maybe if every car crash that someone dies in was televised people would stop driving?
Take some comfort in the fact that they did not suffer, they would have had so much adrenaline pumping for the race that they would have been put down before they had time to feel much. After watching "Inside natures giants" when they did a racehorse I have the utmost respect for these horses, they really are incredible.
Sad for them to end their racing lives this way, I would much prefer for them to retired off to a field somewhere, but stuff happens. (I bet they get shot when they retire anyway)
Edited by ST170Bird on Saturday 14th April 23:34
And F1 is safe now, no deaths since Senna of 94 and it is still a massive motorsport and even bigger now than it was then so there is a good argument that making a sport safer doesn't destroy it at all.
Obviously there has to be some risk involved in sport or it isn't a sport imo, and yes back in the caveman days 'he who dares wins' did apply. Also did the footballer die because of a nasty injury or did he just drop down dead from an aneurism or something? And the horses that were put down did feel it, i remember seeing one that had broken its left front leg still trying to run on three legs before it was caught and put down so i bet that felt a bit of a twinge at least.
Don't get me wrong I'm not saying the national should be stopped, just updated because its not a proper race at the moment due to too many flaws as a result of being traditional. Le Mans was started by running to the cars before it was deemed too dangerous and generally a crap way to start a race from a fairness point of view.
I know this thread is about the Grand National/horse racing and don't want to derail it, but a lot of what's been written also applies to greyhound racing. Almost wherever animals and money/gambling are linked, welfare is usually a distant and minor consideration.
Defcon5 said:
I cant understand why they have to kill them. If their dog broke is leg they would get it fixed.
Often not the case for the reason given below.N Dentressangle said:
CatJ said:
It's that you can't set a broken horse leg.
...well enough for the horse to be a race winner again, is the rest of that sentence.longshot said:
Horse racing is an odd "sport".
It only exists because of gambling.
Normally gambling grows around a sport, but not the other way around.
Personally I hate the sport.
From the deaths at the National down to how foals are bred on an almost industrial scale so they can pick the best and slaughter the hundreds or even thousands that don't make the grade.
Horse and dog racing are similar to a big pyramid, there are only a handful of winners of blue riband events at the top but an entire pyramid underneath them that needs to be there to provide the numbers for the low and middle grade races. The numbers are staggering, in to the tens of thounsands of animals. Sadly most of these animals are destroyed, by fair means or foul, once they have served their commercial purpose.It only exists because of gambling.
Normally gambling grows around a sport, but not the other way around.
Personally I hate the sport.
From the deaths at the National down to how foals are bred on an almost industrial scale so they can pick the best and slaughter the hundreds or even thousands that don't make the grade.
I think there's a tiny percentage of owners who actually make money in the grand scheme of things.
Take Godolphin, owned by king of Dubai The Emir Sheikh Mohammed bin Rashid Al Maktoum, that operation costs millions to run each year and they've never even made a profit and indeed never intend to.
It's a hobby.
The only people that make money in racing are, bookies (there's 12 in Newmarket!), trainers, and top jockeys.
It really is the king of sports.
.
Take Godolphin, owned by king of Dubai The Emir Sheikh Mohammed bin Rashid Al Maktoum, that operation costs millions to run each year and they've never even made a profit and indeed never intend to.
It's a hobby.
The only people that make money in racing are, bookies (there's 12 in Newmarket!), trainers, and top jockeys.
It really is the king of sports.
. Last weekend I went to the local point to point just down the raod from my house. Sadly one horse was injured and someone went home with an empty horse box. So its not just the grand national that's the problem.
Personally if my horse was in pain and wasn't going to race agin ie do what's its bred for I'd have it put down. Its an animal at the end of the day bred and bought to do a job.
Personally if my horse was in pain and wasn't going to race agin ie do what's its bred for I'd have it put down. Its an animal at the end of the day bred and bought to do a job.
Skyedriver said:
Jasandjules said:
The horses want to run. !
Which is why they need to be whippedSkyedriver said:
Jasandjules said:
The horses want to run. !
Which is why they need to be whippedAnd I am aware of a racehorse who ended his days out to stud because a jockey whipped him in the face and blinded him........
The people that want the National and or racing banned because a few horses die, forget that no racing = no need for race horses, so they ALL get shot.
Blokey on the radio this am said that if the jumps are lower the horses cross them faster, so they are more likely to get hurt. It is about congestion at the jump iirc.
The people that own and race these nags have spent fortunes on them and it would be my guess that they aren't keen on coming home with an empty horse box and a vets bill. The people that "just" look after them also won't be keen on sending horses to races and them not coming home again.
Racing looks like a bag of bks to me and I don't like horses, so I don't watch it. I like dogs, but don't like greyhound racing, so I don't watch that either. No demand, no racing.
Blokey on the radio this am said that if the jumps are lower the horses cross them faster, so they are more likely to get hurt. It is about congestion at the jump iirc.
The people that own and race these nags have spent fortunes on them and it would be my guess that they aren't keen on coming home with an empty horse box and a vets bill. The people that "just" look after them also won't be keen on sending horses to races and them not coming home again.
Racing looks like a bag of b
ks to me and I don't like horses, so I don't watch it. I like dogs, but don't like greyhound racing, so I don't watch that either. No demand, no racing. Jasandjules said:
That doesn't make sense to me. The horse WANTS to run, there is no need to whip them, they will run anyways.. Frankly I'd be interested to know if the animal cruelty laws would not apply to whipping horses.
And I am aware of a racehorse who ended his days out to stud because a jockey whipped him in the face and blinded him........
I believe, and am prepared to be told I am wrong, that last years winning jockey was subsequently banned for excess use of the whipAnd I am aware of a racehorse who ended his days out to stud because a jockey whipped him in the face and blinded him........
ST170Bird said:
boy said: Its an animal at the end of the day bred and bought to do a job.
True, my Uncle grows cows and sheep, they are bred to be eaten. The are born, grow up, killed, then you eat them. What's the difference, really? unless you're a weird veggie type.There is also the concern that any animals which are selectively bred for a particular human purpose, can be moved so far from what would be viable in the natural world. In this case, the drive for more speed has resulted in longer and more slender legs, which are therefore more fragile. (It is a competitive 'arms-race' in that respect, as long as one breeder keeps breeding for pure speed, everyone has to, and no-one gains) The same goes for bulldogs which have such massive heads they can't even give birth naturally, for example.
I'm not a racing fan (basically not interested), but I just think that the risk levels to the animals is too high. I appreciate that the sport is never going to stop, but I believe that in the long term it is likely to get slowly but progressively worse.
(I'm def not a veggie though!)
cheddar said:
So, give or take, 10% of horses that run in the Grand National die?
The odd one?
NOT even the odd one - if it was the odd jockey ,then perhaps HSE might get involved. But ,a horse, and then it'd have to be one that joe public would care about.No - nothing will get done, as the money is too great for the risks.And even then , insurance takes care of the monetary side of things. The odd one?
[quote=Who me ?]
The horses get shot because they are poor patients and cannot be treated successfully for broken bones and torn ligaments etc. cheddar said:
So, give or take, 10% of horses that run in the Grand National die?
The odd one?
NOT even the odd one - if it was the odd jockey ,then perhaps HSE might get involved. But ,a horse, and then it'd have to be one that joe public would care about.No - nothing will get done, as the money is too great for the risks.And even then , insurance takes care of the monetary side of things. The odd one?
This happens to jockeys at lot. They do say that jockeys are just about the toughest sports men. If they couldn't be repaired, then there would be more jockey fatalities.
I would also hazard a (reasonably educated) guess that race horses, even taken into account the race fatalities are far better taken care of that pet horses and have a better quality of life.
wendyg said:
There is a good argument that there is a moral difference between animals bred for food, and animals bred for entertainment, which is essentially what horse-racing is.
Most meat is eaten for entertainment rather than any nutritional requirement. I'd bet I could eat 1/2 the meat I do and suffer no ill effects (probably be good for me).Within both sets of animals some of their number are killed for "entertainment" of one kind or another.
So long as they are treated well while alive, and killed as swiftly and cleanly as possible when the time comes, then I don't have a problem with it.
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