German Shepherds

[SGirl]

Our Poppy lurcher from the Dogs Trust is 9 months old now, and while we still have a way to go with her training we're already thinking to the future.

We're thinking of getting a German Shepherd pup sometime, probably when the Young Lady reaches 2 or 3 years of age (assuming all goes well with her up to that point and she doesn't develop any high-maintenance habits!), and I was wondering whether anyone has any pointers (no, not the dogs! )? As Poppy is a neutered b1tch, would it be advisable to get a dog next time?

I'm aware of the various health problems suffered by German Shepherds, so if anyone has any tips on how to ensure we find a good breeder (or knows a good breeder), that would be great. We're not rushing into this, we'll be taking plenty of time to find the right pup (and its parents) and it'll take as long as it takes! I know we've got ages yet, but I want to be 100% certain we've covered everything we need to look at before committing to even looking for another little creature.

Anyway, here are a couple of pics so you can see if a GSD would match.

Edited by SGirl on Monday 19th September 14:47

[gd49]

Make sure both parents have been hip scored. I'd want to see both parents - there was a trend a few years ago to have the back of the dog sloping down, I'd avoid offspring from parents like that as that posture isn't normal.

Getting a dog might slightly reduce the risk of tension with a bh but I wouldn't expect it to be that significant - if you find one you want and it's a bh I wouldn't worry too much.

Be prepared for the possibility of big vet bills - GSDs can develop some impressively expensive conditions!

[rasputin]

Hips have been the least of our problems with our German Shepherd.

Spine problems, severe digestive problems, poor bladder control, ear infections, at least one "emergency" vet visit per year - and every single time the vet has called it a "common German Shepherd problem".
Some years the bills have been close to £4k, but of course that's nothing compared to watching her suffer.

As much as I love the breed I don't think I could go through it again.

Other than that, my experience is that females are quite "emotional". They need calm and disciplined handlers to keep them in check. They are far too intelligent, can be sneaky and will learn both good and bad habits with almost no effort on your part.
All the males I've known have been more laid back and acted more like dogs - still intelligent and loyal, but more "doggie", if that makes any sense

[R TOY]

My first Shepherd, cant understand why i waited so long !
He is 4 now, so far only v minor problems, ear infections etc.
I would v strongly recomend training classes, esp with a Gsd minded club. helps with socialising and an intelligent dog will quickly put its mind to mischief if not channeled. (owners too)
Breed can be problem with other dogs, not so much your other dog but strangers on walks etc.
Mine is fine with 90% but if he meets a black lab dog the fur is going to fly. No idea what he has against them?
All the more reason to have control over him.
V sensitive, he knows when he has done wrong. A stern voice/glare is enough to make him roll on his side. (only works from me tho )
Mine is not 'humpy' so have kept him entire for the moment, may change in the future to prevent testicle cancer.
He is fairly relaxed about his food aswell, infact he used to allow our 16yr old westie (no longer with us) to push in to his bowl.
He is from the Beinhard kennel near Hull. V happy with him apart from his prematurely grey muzzle.
Its hard to recomend a breeder tho as i know another dog from same stock and he is a nightmare ! (owner influence ? )
And he is a guard dog , not because he is aggresive but just that is how the breed is percieved .
I avoided big heavy built blood lines, Mine is quite big but fairly light build. More athletic and carries less weight on his joints etc. And another pic, any excuse

[rasputin]

R TOY said:

And he is a guard dog , not because he is aggresive but just that is how the breed is percieved .

I found the same. You get a lot more respect walking through groups of neds when you have a German Shepherd with you !

And their intelligence really needs to be stressed again - they don't need to be "taught" to guard. They just know when people are welcome and when they're not. With ours, "friendlies" are greeted by an excited squeak before they even knock the door (not a bark, it's a squeaky type of breathing)... Clipboard monkeys, gypsies and salesmen get the "GO AWAY" bark (I must admit I don't always discourage her)

[SGirl]

Thanks for the info and gorgeous pics!

I was aware of the health problems of GSDs, but I didn't know individuals suffer from lots of them all at once! Is this a very common thing? I know things go wrong with dogs occasionally and I don't begrudge spending the money to make them well again, but I don't want to see the dog suffer.

Interesting the info on the difference between males and females - I'd much prefer a "doggie" dog because that's pretty much what Poppy is and it'd be my personal preference anyway. I think I see what you're saying about "emotional" females, but Poppy isn't like that at all so it might cause trouble if we try to combine two very different personalities.

Poppy has been going to training classes ever since she came to us in April. Our particular one isn't breed-specific, and we have a mix of sizes and abilities. (Not always a good thing, it has to be said.) We plan on keeping these going for the immediate future, and it would be no trouble to take a second dog along, or alternate them if necessary. The same people also run puppy parties - but it seems most of the people at these have very young dogs (under 5 months) and/or small breeds, so we might have to find somewhere else for a baby GSD to socialise. Someone else took a GSD pup along and lasted all of one session in amongst the shih-tzus and westies. One woman even had a pup that she wouldn't allow to walk anywhere.

Are GSDs very person-specific? By that, I mean do they become more attached to one handler, or are they more "family" dogs? Trainable is good, I'd be very happy with that! Poppy tends to bark when she's afraid of something, specifically older men with beards. Although she will protect the house too - the window cleaner loves her and she loves him, but she still barks at him when he appears outside my office window on the first floor.

Edited by SGirl on Tuesday 20th September 10:47

[gd49]

SGirl said:

I was aware of the health problems of GSDs, but I didn't know individuals suffer from lots of them all at once! Is this a very common thing? I know things go wrong with dogs occasionally and I don't begrudge spending the money to make them well again, but I don't want to see the dog suffer.

It's rare to get all the different health problems in one dog, think Rasputin has been rather unlucky.

There are plenty of GSDs which will only be going to the vets for their boosters for most of their lives, but you do need to be aware they can develop some major health problems which are fairly unique to GSDs, and be prepared for the possiblity.

[Mr Pies]

R TOY said:

My first Shepherd, cant understand why i waited so long !
He is 4 now, so far only v minor problems, ear infections etc.
I would v strongly recomend training classes, esp with a Gsd minded club. helps with socialising and an intelligent dog will quickly put its mind to mischief if not channeled. (owners too)
Breed can be problem with other dogs, not so much your other dog but strangers on walks etc.
Mine is fine with 90% but if he meets a black lab dog the fur is going to fly. No idea what he has against them?
All the more reason to have control over him.
V sensitive, he knows when he has done wrong. A stern voice/glare is enough to make him roll on his side. (only works from me tho )
Mine is not 'humpy' so have kept him entire for the moment, may change in the future to prevent testicle cancer.
He is fairly relaxed about his food aswell, infact he used to allow our 16yr old westie (no longer with us) to push in to his bowl.
He is from the Beinhard kennel near Hull. V happy with him apart from his prematurely grey muzzle.
Its hard to recomend a breeder tho as i know another dog from same stock and he is a nightmare ! (owner influence ? )
And he is a guard dog , not because he is aggresive but just that is how the breed is percieved .
I avoided big heavy built blood lines, Mine is quite big but fairly light build. More athletic and carries less weight on his joints etc. And another pic, any excuse

He is stunning! Does he malt much?

[MintyUFB]

Hi, I foster german shepherds for Sussex german shepherd rescue(shameless plug). In my humble opinion some of what has been said before could be a little misleading. I have three gsd's of my own and one currently in foster. Three bhes and a dog. They all get on very well with each other and every other dog they meet. Some of the foster dogs we get have behavioural issues due to mistreatment but that is the exception rather than the rule. It is nearly always down to the owner when a dog has issues and the gsd breed is not in my opinion known for issues with other breeds. In the two years I have been fostering I have only had one fight to deal with over a toy. This is down to strong leadership (the wife is fearsome when she wants to be) and the dogs know what they can and can't do. Anyway enough rambling, get a gsd, they are wonderful companions when well trained. Here is a picture of mine

Edited by MintyUFB on Wednesday 21st September 20:24

[Flip Martian]

MintyUFB said:

Hi, I foster german shepherds for Sussex german shepherd rescue(shameless plug). In my humble opinion some of what has been said before could be a little misleading. I have three gsd's of my own and one currently in foster. Three bhes and a dog. They all get on very well with each other and every other dog they meet. Some of the foster dogs we get have behavioural issues due to mistreatment but that is the exception rather than the rule. It is nearly always down to the owner when a dog has issues and the gsd breed is not in my opinion known for issues with other breeds. In the two years I have been fostering I have only had one fight to deal with over a toy. This is down to strong leadership (the wife is fearsome when she wants to be) and the dogs know what they can and can't do. Anyway enough rambling, get a gsd, they are wonderful companions when well trained. Here is a picture of mine

Edited by MintyUFB on Wednesday 21st September 20:24

Fantastic picture, thanks for sharing.

My mum had a GSD. Male, a couple of years old when his owners were going overseas. Got very attached to my Mum and was friendly enough with everyone but was always crying if she went out without him, no matter who else was in the house. Poor little beggar developed epilepsy though which got worse and worse until it was kinder in the end to have him put to sleep. She never had another dog after that and she loved GSDs.

[Rollcage]

All dogs are special, but GSDs are more spexial than most. Hugely intelligent, massively loyal and fantastic companions. I had a male and a female together for 8 years and never had a moments bother between the pair of them. they would happily eat from the same bowl, and often did. Hip dysplasia is the main worry, so get a dog whose parwnts are both scored.

The main problem with sheps is generally other people's attitude towards them, rather than the dogs themselves, though sadly the odd owner does get one for the wrong reasons.

They do need a reasonably experienced owner, who will let the dog know who is boss, as they are too intelligent for their own good on occasion, and will quickly run rings round an owner that does not exert strong leadership!

Mine have been gone a couple of years now, and there still isn't a day goes by that I dont think of them. I'd put up a pic, but I'm on my phone so can't.

Get the right dog and have the right attitude, and you will have a fantastic companion .

[RV8]

I always thought they were supposed to slope down at the back a bit as the power was all up front? Anyhow, ours had hip dysplasia and a fantom pregnancy then eventually developed bladder problems and required daily medication.
As a puppy she was fine but about a year later she decided she didn't like people she did not know and especially people coming to the door. She was in fairness a bloody liability with people that were afraid of her, which was most people (she was fking huge and quite scary in full barking mode) the best option was get people to ignore her and she would eventually decide she could trust them, if they started backing up, putting hands up defensively she'd have to be kept away. She hated other dogs and would physically overpower them and go straight for the neck if they so much as looked at us.

She ate her way through most of the kitchen cupboards and plasterwork, we tried everything, even hot sauce which we figured would burn her mouth and stop her from chewing the walls long enough for her to grow out of it - turned out she liked tabasco sauce.
God knows why we had issues with her because the parents were hip scored and the mum and dad were both sociable and friendly, she was the most outgoing of the litter, but what do you do in this situation? send her back? we didn't have the heart and she lived to 12 years old, a really nice dog with the family but astronomical vet bills (up to £100 per month for visits and medication) and very trying at times.

My advice is get one with the right paperwork and take out pet insurance BEFORE any issue starts just to be certain. Also make sure you socialize them in a CONTROLLED environment from a young age, this was my oversight, what I mean by controlled is not some all-in puppy play group where dogs of 12 months are bounding around scaring the st (literally in some dogs cases) out of all the smaller pups and the dopey owners have no control over their animal, which in her case was probably the reason for her vehement hatred of other dogs.

[SGirl]

Hi everybody, thanks for all the information and that gorgeous pic of the three GSDs in the woods! At this rate I'll be getting another dog by the end of the week, never mind waiting until Poppy is at least 2.

Minty, the reason I was thinking of getting a pup from a breeder this time, as opposed to rescuing as we did with Poppy, is because of all the potential for inbred health issues and temperament problems caused by poor handling early on in their lives. All of this stuff would be an unknown quantity with a rescue, which is why I was thinking of going to a reputable breeder this time. Poppy was a rescue, and our trainers reckon that being in rescue kennels at such a young age (and being rehomed for two days by someone else initially but being returned when she chased the new owner's cats) are why she's only now learning how to greet other dogs nicely and not leap all over them to invite them to play when she meets them for the first time.

But from what you've said above, I could well be persuaded to take a rescue instead. I'm concerned about behavioural problems and the potential for health issues, but I presume your rescue also takes in dogs with known backgrounds as well as strays? I'll definitely make a note and get back to you a bit nearer decision time.

Flip, separation anxiety is one of my concerns actually! Poppy is fine to be left in the house, but she cries if she's left in the car. (Currently trying to work out how to train her out of that! She's only ever left in the car for 5 minutes while I nip to school and I always come back, but she still worries she'll never see me again. ) I'm hoping that having two dogs will address this problem?

The intelligence of these dogs is what appeals to me most, really. I didn't like GSDs years ago because one bit me when I was 4 (!), but I've finally got over it. I see Rollcage's point about other people being scared of them - I wonder whether having a lurcher alongside will help to dilute the "GSD effect"? But then again, we'll be getting the dog to be a member of our family, not for the approval of other people. If people don't like our (eventually) well-trained and mannerly dog, that's their hard luck.

I'm hoping that bringing up a pup next to Poppy will help to encourage the GSD pup to relax with other dogs. Poppy wasn't particularly well socialised when we had her, but she's forever making new doggy friends these days. RV8, you're so right about the all-in puppy playgroups! Our group goes to 12 months, but we've decided to stop going along because Poppy is bigger now than most of the dogs there will ever be. Most people only seem to be interested in committing to classes while their pups are at the cute, new stage anyway, they stop as soon as the novelty wears off. Our group meets every 2 months and it's unusual to see the same people there twice.

Insurance is good - I have every intention of buying insurance the second the pup sets foot in the house. I'm like that.

[Tresco]

Have you thought about an older GSD rescue? we got an 8yr old last year via GSD rescue having thought about a puppy and despite being neglected she is absolutely,(touching wood!), fine health wise. she'd never been socialised with other dogs which was initially a worry so we joined a GSD club and attended their training classes, I also joined a general puppy training class to some strange looks from all the other spaniel and poodle owners! but it was just to get her used to other dogs en masse. I'd use a specialist rescue and get a GSD that has been fostered, you'd get a good picture of how they are with other dogs, adults and children etc.

Some people do cross the road to avoid us, also on walks a few dogs get suddenly picked up but I guess it's understandable, having said that she's now met hundreds of other dogs without a problem.

Great picture from Minty, makes me want another!

[Flip Martian]

When I can get a dog I would also strongly advocate a rescue dog. So many need good homes. All the more important to be able to trust where you're getting it from of course. But you'd also have extra feel good factor for giving a home to an intelligent animal who lost their previous one.

Ok, emotional blackmail mode off...

[SGirl]

Tresco, what a sweet dog. She looks very laid back.

Well, I would consider a rescue if I were 100% certain it would be okay in a family setting. My 8 year old son is the most important part of the equation - if a dog can't be trusted around him, then we can't have the dog. That was why I got a fairly young pup from the Dogs Trust instead of choosing an older dog. (They did in fact have a 2 year old boxer-ridgeback cross who was absolutely brilliant, and I was very tempted! But he was massive and completely untrained, and although he was listed as "good with children" I couldn't see my son walking him, somehow. ) And I didn't want to bring a very old dog home (although they also had a 14 year old greyhound who was lovely...) because of the upset that would no doubt ensue fairly soon afterwards when the dog shuffled off this mortal coil.

I'm a bit 50-50 about a rescue for the next one, to be honest. I've already got the feelgood factor after adopting Poppy 6 months ago. But we'll see - I'll definitely look at rescues a bit closer to the time, I think.

Some more questions in the meantime. How much grooming do GSDs need? And toys were mentioned above - do they tend to be possessive with their toys? And one more - what are their exercise patterns like? Are they happy with two longish walks a day (at least an hour every time), or do they need more? Poppy is happy with that amount of exercise, and she'll play and sleep under my desk all day the rest of the time. Cue some more photos even though she's not a GSD.

[Mr Pies]

Flip Martian said:

When I can get a dog I would also strongly advocate a rescue dog. So many need good homes. All the more important to be able to trust where you're getting it from of course. But you'd also have extra feel good factor for giving a home to an intelligent animal who lost their previous one.

Ok, emotional blackmail mode off...

Funnily enough I'm trying to rehome a rottie and not having much luck at all. I think it's because I live alone.

I desperately want to rehome an older dig from a trust/rescue cebtre, but at this rate I'll end up having to buy a young one or even a puppy, which I really didn't want to do.

[Rollcage]

Both my GSDs were rehomed -



Ria




Nice simple rehome at 7 months from a lady with health problems.



Jake







Jake was a rescue dog, and had suffered a bit at the hands of his previous owner. He never really forgot, but after a period of getting used to a new life, he never looked back. I always thought he somehow knew that he'd found a decent home with us - just the look in his eyes from time to time, when he was being the big soft soppy dog, rather than the huge, fierce dog he liked to try and make people think he was.

Edited by Rollcage on Friday 23 September 00:22

[Mr Pies]

^^^ haha Jake in that photo is looking at you as if to say 'do you mind? I'm trying to nap here!'

[baker77]

Jenna is also a rescue dog, we got her when she was between 1 - 1.5 years old and she is now 8 and still going strong and still believes she's a puppy. When we got her she was scared of men, but she soon came to realise that noone was going to hurt her and now she loves pretty much everyone. She's just starting to get a bit stiff in her back legs, more noticeable in cold weather and if she's been running around like a lunatic, but she has never had any real health problems, only really going to the vets for the usual check-ups and vaccinations.

Gratuitous pics




and with her present friend/housemate (also a rescue)



(If anyone thinks they get avoided whilst walking their gsd's, they should try walking a gsd and a bull terrier together, some people walk as far away from you as is physically possible )