Caving, potholing, claustrophobia, etc
Discussion
My contribution to this thread will be meagre at best,
But I remain fascinated and terrified, nevertheless.
(award kudos for rhyming stanza)
Fear is a friend like no other. Listen carefully in any situation in life, and it will clearly spell out the risks, pitfalls and impending doom for you. I think caving is where the mind caves in though, the only situation where thinking doesn't help.
First caving experience was a squeeze between two bent bars, a small chamber (which felt cut off 'from the others') and a short upwards pipe crawl to a vent through which I could see my mates again. Looking back, nothing could have gone wrong, the fear was entirely claustrophobia. Meaning I'm not cut out for caving.
Second, potholing in Africa. No sumps, no water, no proper squeezes. I went in, not thinking (a good thing when the brain isn't in overdrive) with a buddy and others we had randomly met up with by the entrance, wormed along on my belly in an incredibly narrow tunnel which was half filled to the ceiling with sand, And back out. Panic set in half way through, knowing there were just inches above my head in places, but if everyone else was fine then I should and could be too, was my thinking.
I later that day turned down the offer to be shown a system which began with a dry sump type squeeze which would have had to have started with a climb in the dark across an incredibly deep chasm and immediately into a down then up wriggle into blackness, beyond which I had no idea. I chicken out of nothing but chickened out of that.
Third similar experience was a watery hole in the side of a rock, which lead into blackness, underwater, around a corner after a depth of down-swimming. It sounds horrific and was at the time, perhaps a proper cave diver might have taken the plunge in a heartbeat without stress, compared to me. I was terrified, hated the idea (gives me nightmares) but couldn't ignore the immense curiosity of diving into a dark underwater hole so tight there was no chance of turning around inside when everyone else was doing it.
I did it, surfaced a good 25 seconds later, knowing it was not going to be a quick 5 second duck, 15 years later I still can't figure out why. Addrenaline perhaps is all i can think of. It was the best and worst experience of a lifetime.
I'm no caver. I'm too s
t scared, more of getting stuck than drowning. But I remain uttey fascinated by it all. I don't ever want to do it again, but at the same time I want to face my fears (with good supportive company who will help me conquer them).
Anyone else find exploration of the depths incredibly fascinating, or scary, or enjoy these types of jaunts as a hobby?
I'd like the rush again, but wouldn't like not to be able to back out of a hole which (fear) could kill or drown me. I don't ha e any caver friends so wouldn't know where to Start, and I'd imagine the caver types are probably pretty anal when it comes to introducing newbies, you are either born one of them, or not.
Edit because I cant type on a phone weethout speeling meestakes.
But I remain fascinated and terrified, nevertheless.
(award kudos for rhyming stanza)
Fear is a friend like no other. Listen carefully in any situation in life, and it will clearly spell out the risks, pitfalls and impending doom for you. I think caving is where the mind caves in though, the only situation where thinking doesn't help.
First caving experience was a squeeze between two bent bars, a small chamber (which felt cut off 'from the others') and a short upwards pipe crawl to a vent through which I could see my mates again. Looking back, nothing could have gone wrong, the fear was entirely claustrophobia. Meaning I'm not cut out for caving.
Second, potholing in Africa. No sumps, no water, no proper squeezes. I went in, not thinking (a good thing when the brain isn't in overdrive) with a buddy and others we had randomly met up with by the entrance, wormed along on my belly in an incredibly narrow tunnel which was half filled to the ceiling with sand, And back out. Panic set in half way through, knowing there were just inches above my head in places, but if everyone else was fine then I should and could be too, was my thinking.
I later that day turned down the offer to be shown a system which began with a dry sump type squeeze which would have had to have started with a climb in the dark across an incredibly deep chasm and immediately into a down then up wriggle into blackness, beyond which I had no idea. I chicken out of nothing but chickened out of that.
Third similar experience was a watery hole in the side of a rock, which lead into blackness, underwater, around a corner after a depth of down-swimming. It sounds horrific and was at the time, perhaps a proper cave diver might have taken the plunge in a heartbeat without stress, compared to me. I was terrified, hated the idea (gives me nightmares) but couldn't ignore the immense curiosity of diving into a dark underwater hole so tight there was no chance of turning around inside when everyone else was doing it.
I did it, surfaced a good 25 seconds later, knowing it was not going to be a quick 5 second duck, 15 years later I still can't figure out why. Addrenaline perhaps is all i can think of. It was the best and worst experience of a lifetime.
I'm no caver. I'm too s
t scared, more of getting stuck than drowning. But I remain uttey fascinated by it all. I don't ever want to do it again, but at the same time I want to face my fears (with good supportive company who will help me conquer them). Anyone else find exploration of the depths incredibly fascinating, or scary, or enjoy these types of jaunts as a hobby?
I'd like the rush again, but wouldn't like not to be able to back out of a hole which (fear) could kill or drown me. I don't ha e any caver friends so wouldn't know where to Start, and I'd imagine the caver types are probably pretty anal when it comes to introducing newbies, you are either born one of them, or not.
Edit because I cant type on a phone weethout speeling meestakes.
Edited by Mobsta on Friday 6th January 13:47
you see chaps on TV etc. rummaging around in holes covered from head to toe in mud, squeezing through gaps scarcely big enough for them, no room to turn around, if you get stuck, fk knows!!!
I'm not really claustrophobic, but that would get me soiling my pants and no mistake.
I dont think it's an irrational fear either, a fairly rational one of "what if I get stuck",
If I knew it was nice and safe (think rollercoaster) then all the fear goes and it's just a bit of a jolly. Probably not enough for some people but would do me fine.
k knows!!!I'm not really claustrophobic, but that would get me soiling my pants and no mistake.
I dont think it's an irrational fear either, a fairly rational one of "what if I get stuck",
If I knew it was nice and safe (think rollercoaster) then all the fear goes and it's just a bit of a jolly. Probably not enough for some people but would do me fine.
Mobsta said:
......but couldn't ignore the immense curiosity of diving into a dark underwater hole so tight there was no chance of turning around inside when everyone else was doing it......
Curiosity? CURIOSITY????? 
I was recently reading about a potholer, Floyd Collins, who got trapped in a small chimney thing, when a rock fell on the back of his legs. He could not reach the rock himself, and rescuers couldn't either, because he was in the way. He stayed alive for a couple of weeks, then hypothermia set in and he died.
A horrifying sobering thought.
Definitly not curious though.
http://frontierfolk.net/bluegrassgrotto/floyd-c.ht...
Did a couple of bits of potholing when I was 13 & 16, first one in the Lake District, second somewhere near the Wye Valley iirc. There was a bit called the CheesePress at one of them that didn't bother me at the time, but has haunted my dreams ever since (some 20+ years later).
It was so narrow (vertically), that every movement would scrape the battery pack on your belt on the "ceiling", and you couldn't have your head straight, it had to be tilted to the side. Think it was a crawl of about 15 feet. Quite wide though, as I recall.
The other one was a sloped, curving tunnel, again not much bigger than the body, that went on for about 30 feet. On the way down, I didn't notice a junction joining it in a Y. So when we came to go back up (there was a reasonably large cave we were visiting at the bottom), and I was quite slow, I fell behind the guys in front. At the junction, I had NO idea which way to go and couldn't see any clue of how to proceed. I had to get the guys behind me (3 or so iirc) to turn off their helmet lamps and I did the same. It was only then that I could see a faint glimmer of light from one of the choices (helmet lamps from the guys ahead and around the bend).
Rationally I knew that when the group emerged at the top and we weren't with them, that someone would come back, but it's tricky to keep a hold on rationality at a time like that
I'm never, ever doing it again.
It was so narrow (vertically), that every movement would scrape the battery pack on your belt on the "ceiling", and you couldn't have your head straight, it had to be tilted to the side. Think it was a crawl of about 15 feet. Quite wide though, as I recall.
The other one was a sloped, curving tunnel, again not much bigger than the body, that went on for about 30 feet. On the way down, I didn't notice a junction joining it in a Y. So when we came to go back up (there was a reasonably large cave we were visiting at the bottom), and I was quite slow, I fell behind the guys in front. At the junction, I had NO idea which way to go and couldn't see any clue of how to proceed. I had to get the guys behind me (3 or so iirc) to turn off their helmet lamps and I did the same. It was only then that I could see a faint glimmer of light from one of the choices (helmet lamps from the guys ahead and around the bend).
Rationally I knew that when the group emerged at the top and we weren't with them, that someone would come back, but it's tricky to keep a hold on rationality at a time like that
I'm never, ever doing it again.
Mobsta said:
Anyone else find exploration of the depths incredibly fascinating, or scary, or enjoy these types of jaunts as a hobby?
Roughly the same thoughts as yourself - I'm pretty sure it's not for me, but I remain gripped by the fascination.It's a little more than a trip down the road, but I did quite a bit on guided "tours" in Waitomo. They have various length and graded tours, some of which are for "the experience", for which read you go through ONE narrow section, and that's about it, and you're home in time for tea and crumpets. Others are full 6-8hr jaunts starting with abseiling into a 300m chasm, then hiking / spelunking back out.... Oh and "blackwater" rafting too, which was ace. Underwater rapids with a rubber ring and head torch!
Given they're run as to all intents and purposes a tourist attraction, there probably is little real danger, but on the other hand this is New Zealand, so it is for thrill seekers....
My favourite bit... the view.... my god:
Looking back up....
One where I quite literally have been there, done it, got the t-shirt. It's a bit moth-eaten and tired now but I still wear it with some small pride!
More here - http://www.waitomo.co.nz/Welcome
ETA - 7hrs is the long tour.
Edited by RedLeicester on Friday 6th January 14:53
I have done quite a bit of caving, done a bit of work with the Derbyshire rescue years ago when I lived up North, I have even done a bit of digging / repairing which is backbreaking and theoretically risky.
It certainly isn't for everybody, and it is hard to explain what's so exciting about being underground, but exciting it is. I have been worried a couple of times, mostly due to equipment failure, but as long as you approach it with a sensible safety first attitude, it's actually a very safe sport. There are caves that are staggeringly beautiful, and caves that represent a real challenge physically, and others that are just good fun short trips that make for a fun couple of hours pre-pub.
Not been for years as I have moved around the country and lost touch with my caving buddies, but would certainly like to get back into it.
As regards newbies getting into it I have always found cavers to be a very very welcoming bunch that are always happy to take newbies down. Much better that than they go off on their own without the right equipment or knowledge and have to be pulled out by the rescue. There are plenty of clubs out there, just get in touch and I am sure you will get invited along and loaned suitable equipment to see if you like it.
It certainly isn't for everybody, and it is hard to explain what's so exciting about being underground, but exciting it is. I have been worried a couple of times, mostly due to equipment failure, but as long as you approach it with a sensible safety first attitude, it's actually a very safe sport. There are caves that are staggeringly beautiful, and caves that represent a real challenge physically, and others that are just good fun short trips that make for a fun couple of hours pre-pub.
Not been for years as I have moved around the country and lost touch with my caving buddies, but would certainly like to get back into it.
As regards newbies getting into it I have always found cavers to be a very very welcoming bunch that are always happy to take newbies down. Much better that than they go off on their own without the right equipment or knowledge and have to be pulled out by the rescue. There are plenty of clubs out there, just get in touch and I am sure you will get invited along and loaned suitable equipment to see if you like it.
I have done some around the Burren here in Ireland, some are fairly tasty too, very small, water, rock, and it still terrifies the live ste out of me!
Never ever again, ever!
Its the fear of getting stuck I think. I've done lots of extreme sports over the years too and got the buzz, but not the fear. Nearest other time I got to the fear again would be the first time I jumped in the 'serpents lair' on the Aran islands. Just before you jump for the first time, thats it.
But as for caving, no way...
te out of me! Never ever again, ever!
Its the fear of getting stuck I think. I've done lots of extreme sports over the years too and got the buzz, but not the fear. Nearest other time I got to the fear again would be the first time I jumped in the 'serpents lair' on the Aran islands. Just before you jump for the first time, thats it.
But as for caving, no way...
A mate of mine went once, declared himself an expert, got a load of gear ie hard hats, lights, boilers suits and massive batteries, and got me and another friend to go with him to some old Norman Mines by the M25 in Surrey.
It started with a 12ft or so drop down a wide tube, an old bit of gas main I think and then we had to back through a hole just wide enough for us 18 year olds to get through.
It was great at first and we saw old writing on walls and even the skeleton of one of the mules that they must of used back then but after a lot of wandering, crawling, slithering my mate admitted that we were lost.
The idea was to get in via the gas pipe but as it was impossible to get out again the journey was supposed to take us out via an entrance in the back of someone's garden.
At one point I had my mate by the throat as I was losing it, especially as he had not told his dad where he was going, thus would not be missed for a few days.
We eventually made it back to the hole at the bottom of the pipe and I crawled through just to see the sky. It was getting dark and pouring with rain, in fact a lot of water was coming down the pipe.
The pipe was vertical and glass smooth on it's surface, absolutely no grip and the top was a good 6 to 10 ft above me. My mates had to grab my legs to get me to join them again. I just did not want leave the normal world behind.
We did get out in the end, it was tricky but my two mates were smaller than me so both managed to get into the pipe and then by pressing against each other and the insides of the pipe, they caterpillared up and out. They then tied their belts together and hauled me out.
That pint in the local pub never tasted so good.
Hating to be put off, I did return but with a pro club and we managed the whole journey from pipe to garden but to be honest, it's not really my cup of tea.
It started with a 12ft or so drop down a wide tube, an old bit of gas main I think and then we had to back through a hole just wide enough for us 18 year olds to get through.
It was great at first and we saw old writing on walls and even the skeleton of one of the mules that they must of used back then but after a lot of wandering, crawling, slithering my mate admitted that we were lost.
The idea was to get in via the gas pipe but as it was impossible to get out again the journey was supposed to take us out via an entrance in the back of someone's garden.
At one point I had my mate by the throat as I was losing it, especially as he had not told his dad where he was going, thus would not be missed for a few days.
We eventually made it back to the hole at the bottom of the pipe and I crawled through just to see the sky. It was getting dark and pouring with rain, in fact a lot of water was coming down the pipe.
The pipe was vertical and glass smooth on it's surface, absolutely no grip and the top was a good 6 to 10 ft above me. My mates had to grab my legs to get me to join them again. I just did not want leave the normal world behind.
We did get out in the end, it was tricky but my two mates were smaller than me so both managed to get into the pipe and then by pressing against each other and the insides of the pipe, they caterpillared up and out. They then tied their belts together and hauled me out.
That pint in the local pub never tasted so good.
Hating to be put off, I did return but with a pro club and we managed the whole journey from pipe to garden but to be honest, it's not really my cup of tea.
Went pot-holing at some place in Derbyshire when I was at school, pretty deep crawling along staring at the soles of the person front with hundreds of tonnes of hill above us.
Couldn't wait to get out and 34 years later it still sends a chill down my spine, and I'll never forget that feeling of wanting to scream "GET ME OUT OF HERE!"
Couldn't wait to get out and 34 years later it still sends a chill down my spine, and I'll never forget that feeling of wanting to scream "GET ME OUT OF HERE!"
vixen1700 said:
Went pot-holing at some place in Derbyshire when I was at school, pretty deep crawling along staring at the soles of the person front with hundreds of tonnes of hill above us.
Same here. We did the usual touristy Trek Cliff cavern (on foot) and then went somewhere else to do "actual" pot-holing; Kagoules, wellies, torches - all the proper safety gear.vixen1700 said:
Couldn't wait to get out and 34 years later it still sends a chill down my spine, and I'll never forget that feeling of wanting to scream "GET ME OUT OF HERE!"
I actually quite enjoyed it, even the very claustrophobic part they called "the chimney" where you climbed up, well, a chimney-sized vertical tunnel.Adventure training at Sandhurst: 6 options, choose 5 and place in order. I put ski-ing number one but was sent on the activity I didn't choose - potholing. I was sent to a barracks near York and so I suppose we were somewhere on the Moors. Total waste of time: down a hole and come back out of the same hole 5 hours later. The only good thing was that it was dark. I think if I had been able to look either up or down those great long 6 inch ladder things I would have struggled to do it.
Never again.
L.F.
Never again.
L.F.
Ayahuasca said:
NiceCupOfTea said:
Even reading this thread I can feel the panic rising in me.
Absolutely no. Not even a milliseconds' thought required.
You and me both.Absolutely no. Not even a milliseconds' thought required.
A mate of mine does a bit of cave diving and he told me tale of him squeezing through a tunnel to meet some kind of shark coming the other way. Neither of them could turn, and the shark just got more and more agitated at the fat t
t in his way. I nearly passed out just hearing about it.Gassing Station | The Lounge | Top of Page | What's New | My Stuff