Prison?

[NNK]

An interesting read, I sent a link to it to a mate here in NZ who is currently on bail for a number of drug charges (max sentences per charge range from 8 to life). He has signed up but cannot post in The Lounge for 14 days apparently.

He is very aware that it was a jealous acquaintance who made the call to the cops but doesn't know when. He had mentioned in the past (before arrest) that he thought he was being watched/listened to.

Anyway, I'm sure he will be along with many questions when allowed to post.

[RAFsmoggy]

Ted2 said:

I don't know what gangster American movies you've been watching, nor do I care, but LE is a universally known and used abbreviation for the police / law enforcement. The fact that you've never come across it before living in your little bubble and need it translating for you is not my problem.

As you were.

Because most of the fools in prison are that...how do I know, I go there most days, yes I work in a prison & you may be surprised how different the tough guys are when away from the rest on the inmates...Also quite a few are there for something completely different...than they let on to ...still it pays the bills ,so I guess for me , Crime pays.

[GappySmeg]

Ayahuasca said:

You are a couple of ponces mincing about talking rubbish. Do you want to get involved? Do you want to get involved in this world? Nightclub owners in Leicester Square who get garrotted, ammonia in the boat? Because if you want to get involved I'll get you involved, son. You want to get sucked in, I'll suck you in. I'll suck you in so far you'll get blown out the other side. And wipe that soppy look of your gormless face. You want to get sucked in?

And to think he was dead mere minutes later... very sad. RIP.

[anonymous-user]

RAFsmoggy said:

Ted2 said:

I don't know what gangster American movies you've been watching, nor do I care, but LE is a universally known and used abbreviation for the police / law enforcement. The fact that you've never come across it before living in your little bubble and need it translating for you is not my problem.

As you were.

Because most of the fools in prison are that...how do I know, I go there most days, yes I work in a prison & you may be surprised how different the tough guys are when away from the rest on the inmates...Also quite a few are there for something completely different...than they let on to ...still it pays the bills ,so I guess for me , Crime pays.

Bit of a strange post, but ok.

[Ted2]

DoubleTime said:

RAFsmoggy said:

Ted2 said:

I don't know what gangster American movies you've been watching, nor do I care, but LE is a universally known and used abbreviation for the police / law enforcement. The fact that you've never come across it before living in your little bubble and need it translating for you is not my problem.

As you were.

Because most of the fools in prison are that...how do I know, I go there most days, yes I work in a prison & you may be surprised how different the tough guys are when away from the rest on the inmates...Also quite a few are there for something completely different...than they let on to ...still it pays the bills ,so I guess for me , Crime pays.

Bit of a strange post, but ok.

Indeed . I think he has his posts mixed up with someone else.

[jjones]

Ted2 said:

but LE is a universally known and used abbreviation for the police / law enforcement.

Not it isn't.

[CharlesdeGaulle]

Ted2 said:

DoubleTime said:

RAFsmoggy said:

Ted2 said:

I don't know what gangster American movies you've been watching, nor do I care, but LE is a universally known and used abbreviation for the police / law enforcement. The fact that you've never come across it before living in your little bubble and need it translating for you is not my problem.

As you were.

Because most of the fools in prison are that...how do I know, I go there most days, yes I work in a prison & you may be surprised how different the tough guys are when away from the rest on the inmates...Also quite a few are there for something completely different...than they let on to ...still it pays the bills ,so I guess for me , Crime pays.

Bit of a strange post, but ok.

Indeed . I think he has his posts mixed up with someone else.

Might have been mildly random, but I'm not sure it was that hard to follow? I thought he made a good point actually.

[Ted2]

TVR Moneypit said:

No

But I have seen several Tranny's in prison. Some enjoy the attention that they get. Some don't. Some get bulled, (to the point of commiting suicide, like that one in HMP Leeds a few months back). Some become 'girlfriends' of one or more fellas.

There's a lot of "prison gay" in prison. Guys who say "I'm only gay whilst I'm in prison". Erm, no mate. You enjoy another bloke sucking your tickle tackle. That's not prison gay. It's gay full stop.

I've got visions in my head of T-Bag strutting around with you hanging onto his trouser pocket. "What's up Pretty Boy?"

[E24man]

TVR Moneypit said:

E24, I'm sorry if my answers offend or repulse you. You ask me questions, I answer them as best as I can, not by telling you what I think you want to hear, but by giving you honest answers. Even if you don't like that, I hope that you can at least respect that.

TVRmp, I thoroughly appreciate your candour and honesty in your answers and respect the limitations to which you can reply in certain areas. Your answers don't offend or repulse me perhaps because of two reasons; the first being the realisation that should my moral compass not have been subjected to a short sharp shock in my younger days I may have faced options such as you did, and the second being my long term exposure to the effects of your industry in West Yorkshire as a Paramedic.

The only question you didn't answer fully was, 'did you get your cars fixed?'

I genuinely wish you the best for yourself and your family in the future but as you're finding out, society will take its time to trust you again, and perhaps that hidden struggle of an offenders re-habilitation into, and societies re-acceptance of the offender, is the mirror to the hidden effects of drugs which you have clearly come to see.

Your commentary on the poor re-habilitation facilities for reforming offenders, as well as the poor facilities inside prisons strike certain chords, but there is little of substance in any of your points to disuade many people from the question, 'If we made life in prisons truly dreadful, would less people commit offences?'

Human nature dictates that there will always be a percentage of people who will habitually commit crimes no matter what the penalties, but historical prison reform came about due to the large numbers of people who were sent to prison because of the society and times they lived in presented them with no other option but to commit crimes, in most cases, simply in order to live. There is a strong and compelling argument that those circumstances do not now exist; education, welfare provision, charities and employment opportunities are better now than at nearly any other time in the past 250 years, so there is less compelling reasons to commit crimes simply to survive.

Crimes such as yours are pre-meditated crimes of opportunity, not crimes of necessity and perhaps the notion of a truly dreadful prison sentence and experience that should you be caught could well end your prospect of any meaningful life ever again might well have deterred you from your initial decision to break the law and then continue to 'roll the dice'.

Could you honestly say that should you have known the potential sentence for your particular crimes was a 40 year sentence in a bleak prison with little or no facilities and no chance of any parole, that you would still have gone ahead with your enterprise? No chance of renewing your relationship until you're a pensioner. No chance of seeing your children grow up. No chance of seeing your family again or potentially saying goodbye to parents or siblings. Just a straight up, hard, horrible 40 years in the cheapest, bleakest, body and soul destroying facility where law-abiding people can literally forget that the offenders ever existed.

You don't need to answer that as it is a moot hypothetical, and my description deliberately stretches the boundaries of other peoples thoughts and suggestions.

Anyway, thank you again for the large amount of honesty and candour in your answers, but did you fix your cars?

[Markbarry1977]

E24man said:

TVR Moneypit said:

E24, I'm sorry if my answers offend or repulse you. You ask me questions, I answer them as best as I can, not by telling you what I think you want to hear, but by giving you honest answers. Even if you don't like that, I hope that you can at least respect that.

TVRmp, I thoroughly appreciate your candour and honesty in your answers and respect the limitations to which you can reply in certain areas. Your answers don't offend or repulse me perhaps because of two reasons; the first being the realisation that should my moral compass not have been subjected to a short sharp shock in my younger days I may have faced options such as you did, and the second being my long term exposure to the effects of your industry in West Yorkshire as a Paramedic.

The only question you didn't answer fully was, 'did you get your cars fixed?'

I genuinely wish you the best for yourself and your family in the future but as you're finding out, society will take its time to trust you again, and perhaps that hidden struggle of an offenders re-habilitation into, and societies re-acceptance of the offender, is the mirror to the hidden effects of drugs which you have clearly come to see.

Your commentary on the poor re-habilitation facilities for reforming offenders, as well as the poor facilities inside prisons strike certain chords, but there is little of substance in any of your points to disuade many people from the question, 'If we made life in prisons truly dreadful, would less people commit offences?'

Human nature dictates that there will always be a percentage of people who will habitually commit crimes no matter what the penalties, but historical prison reform came about due to the large numbers of people who were sent to prison because of the society and times they lived in presented them with no other option but to commit crimes, in most cases, simply in order to live. There is a strong and compelling argument that those circumstances do not now exist; education, welfare provision, charities and employment opportunities are better now than at nearly any other time in the past 250 years, so there is less compelling reasons to commit crimes simply to survive.

Crimes such as yours are pre-meditated crimes of opportunity, not crimes of necessity and perhaps the notion of a truly dreadful prison sentence and experience that should you be caught could well end your prospect of any meaningful life ever again might well have deterred you from your initial decision to break the law and then continue to 'roll the dice'.

Could you honestly say that should you have known the potential sentence for your particular crimes was a 40 year sentence in a bleak prison with little or no facilities and no chance of any parole, that you would still have gone ahead with your enterprise? No chance of renewing your relationship until you're a pensioner. No chance of seeing your children grow up. No chance of seeing your family again or potentially saying goodbye to parents or siblings. Just a straight up, hard, horrible 40 years in the cheapest, bleakest, body and soul destroying facility where law-abiding people can literally forget that the offenders ever existed.

You don't need to answer that as it is a moot hypothetical, and my description deliberately stretches the boundaries of other peoples thoughts and suggestions.

Anyway, thank you again for the large amount of honesty and candour in your answers, but did you fix your cars?

E24, reference your hypothetical tough known sentences, I used to be firmly in your corner. I read a book about a guy who did 20 years in a Thai prison for drugs. He knew the consequences before he did the crime but still did it anyway. I think in most cases people cannot comprehend the squalor and deep st they could end up in so it acts as no deterrent.

I quite like the three strikes system in USA, although I wouldn’t have three strikes then life. You have to give someone some hope of getting out. But 3rd strike andnyour looking at a minimum of 15-20 years time served.

It’s about time these repeat offenders burglary/assault etc have a real deterrent.

It’s a bit like driving without a licence, get three points on your licence and you don’t have a licence. Each point is mandatory 1 month time served in prison. Issuing people points on a licence they don’t have and have no intention of ever getting is comical.

[anonymous-user]

This thread is interesting but has become a bit Andy McNab. I think I’ll leave it to those wanting to know the glory side of what it’s like to be a criminal. I can’t raise much empathy for the difficulties of prison life as it’s self inflicted and if we get onto the wreckage caused by the results of the criminal activities that led up to it then maybe there would be would be balance - the destroyed families and lives caused by the drugs. This isn’t personal TVR as you seem like a decent bloke and got caught up in the whole excitement of it. However if you hadn’t got caught you would have gone on to more, right?

I have/had a Mate I did a character reference for in a case where he was accused of something I thought very out of character to do with young girls - he was found guilty and went inside. When he came out all he talked about was prison and how bad it was. Sorry but if guilty it’s either miscarriage and clear his name or fk off as far as I’m concerned. He did nothing to clear his name and I’m told most offenders try to act as though nothings happened and they’ve ‘done their bit’ so ‘it’s all over’. Isn’t it. Yeah right tell that to the two girls families it’ll be with them forever. Wish I had never given a reference but he must have lived a double life.

[JimmyConwayNW]

V6Pushfit said:

This thread is interesting but has become a bit Andy McNab. I think I’ll leave it to those wanting to know the glory side of what it’s like to be a criminal. I can’t raise much empathy for the difficulties of prison life as it’s self inflicted and if we get onto the wreckage caused by the results of the criminal activities that led up to it then maybe there would be would be balance - the destroyed families and lives caused by the drugs. This isn’t personal TVR as you seem like a decent bloke and got caught up in the whole excitement of it. However if you hadn’t got caught you would have gone on to more, right?

I have/had a Mate I did a character reference for in a case where he was accused of something I thought very out of character to do with young girls - he was found guilty and went inside. When he came out all he talked about was prison and how bad it was. Sorry but if guilty it’s either miscarriage and clear his name or fk off as far as I’m concerned. He did nothing to clear his name and I’m told most offenders try to act as though nothings happened and they’ve ‘done their bit’ so ‘it’s all over’. Isn’t it. Yeah right tell that to the two girls families it’ll be with them forever. Wish I had never given a reference but he must have lived a double life.

Not even remotely similar crime to TVR though. Your mate was a wrong un.

[SpeckledJim]

V6Pushfit said:

This thread is interesting but has become a bit Andy McNab. I think I’ll leave it to those wanting to know the glory side of what it’s like to be a criminal. I can’t raise much empathy for the difficulties of prison life as it’s self inflicted and if we get onto the wreckage caused by the results of the criminal activities that led up to it then maybe there would be would be balance - the destroyed families and lives caused by the drugs. This isn’t personal TVR as you seem like a decent bloke and got caught up in the whole excitement of it. However if you hadn’t got caught you would have gone on to more, right?

I have/had a Mate I did a character reference for in a case where he was accused of something I thought very out of character to do with young girls - he was found guilty and went inside. When he came out all he talked about was prison and how bad it was. Sorry but if guilty it’s either miscarriage and clear his name or fk off as far as I’m concerned. He did nothing to clear his name and I’m told most offenders try to act as though nothings happened and they’ve ‘done their bit’ so ‘it’s all over’. Isn’t it. Yeah right tell that to the two girls families it’ll be with them forever. Wish I had never given a reference but he must have lived a double life.

But you tried to help get him off? Make your mind up.

[Dr Jekyll]

SpeckledJim said:

But you tried to help get him off? Make your mind up.

Presumed innocent until proven guilty.

[SpeckledJim]

Dr Jekyll said:

SpeckledJim said:

But you tried to help get him off? Make your mind up.

Presumed innocent until proven guilty.

That's a fair point. Sorry.

[JimmyConwayNW]

Did you deal with any Albanians? Allegedly.

I think they are pretty much the 'Mexicans of Europe' currently.

[hyphen]

Related to the below.

For a hypothetical group of drug wholesalers who are more shadow economy businessmen than outright gangsters. How would they have muscle to back them up, would they have paid 'security' i.e. gangs of violent nutters you can hire as needed or access ti weapons they would reluctantly use as a last resort.

So if an Albanian gang decided they wanted to physically take what the 'businessmen' had, how would they defend themselves/what deterrent would put them off.

Or would their mexican contacts assist.

In summary, what would stop some crazed albanian's cutting them into pieces

[Plate spinner]

hyphen said:

Related to the below.

For a hypothetical group of drug wholesalers who are more shadow economy businessmen than outright gangsters. How would they have muscle to back them up, would they have paid 'security' i.e. gangs of violent nutters you can hire as needed or access ti weapons they would reluctantly use as a last resort.

So if an Albanian gang decided they wanted to physically take what the 'businessmen' had, how would they defend themselves/what deterrent would put them off.

Or would their mexican contacts assist.

In summary, what would stop some crazed albanian's cutting them into pieces

I think you have a 'Mike Ehrmantraut' character around as a decent share holder that handles all that sort of stuff for you.

Well that's what i picked up from Breaking Bad anyway...

In reality I guess it's a case of 'are your know connections more or less scary than the connections of the guys who might rip you off' type thing.

[Ted2]

hyphen said:

Related to the below.

For a hypothetical group of drug wholesalers who are more shadow economy businessmen than outright gangsters. How would they have muscle to back them up, would they have paid 'security' i.e. gangs of violent nutters you can hire as needed or access ti weapons they would reluctantly use as a last resort.

So if an Albanian gang decided they wanted to physically take what the 'businessmen' had, how would they defend themselves/what deterrent would put them off.

Or would their mexican contacts assist.

In summary, what would stop some crazed albanian's cutting them into pieces

This was also something that has me rather puzzled as well. My experience in this sector is admittedly not that strong, but I do know enough about it that turf wars and rivalry is very much a thing. If you step on someone else's patch or they just take a dislike to your presence you have a high chance of getting a bullet in your skull. I find it rather odd that apparently everyone was great friends with each other and trading wholesale coke was seemingly as straightforward as a walk in the park.

[Ayahuasca]

I wondered about how much of TVR's operation used / saw / was the victim of violence. I asked him way back but he declined to answer or didn't see my query.

I guess the mean streets of Chesterfield are not quite as mean as those of Ciudad Juarez or Tijuana, or even the South Bronx, but still..

Any info you can provide, TVR? Cheers.