Is anyone else not ambitious
Discussion
Kewy said:
I only read the first couple of pages. But one has to ask 'ambitious at what?'
Health – Yes
Sport – Yes
Knowledge – Yes
Creativity – Yes
But career and money, not in the slightest.
I have this chat with friends of mine fairly regularly who seem to associate 'being successful' with how high up the career-ladder you've climbed and what salary you are on.
For me, health and happiness is a much higher priority. I have lots of ambition and goals for sport, and photography, and health, and hobbies. But not so much for doubling or tripling my salary – or the stress and pressure that comes with such an ambition.
Nor did I...until I had kids. Something tripped a switch at that point and I went into super-provider mode. Weird but overall a good thing.Health – Yes
Sport – Yes
Knowledge – Yes
Creativity – Yes
But career and money, not in the slightest.
I have this chat with friends of mine fairly regularly who seem to associate 'being successful' with how high up the career-ladder you've climbed and what salary you are on.
For me, health and happiness is a much higher priority. I have lots of ambition and goals for sport, and photography, and health, and hobbies. But not so much for doubling or tripling my salary – or the stress and pressure that comes with such an ambition.
dimots said:
Nor did I...until I had kids. Something tripped a switch at that point and I went into super-provider mode. Weird but overall a good thing.
I have a 12 year old daughter and a little boy due anytime now. We're comfortable as a family, don't go without as such. But I have no desire for material goods, the newest Audi or a 5 bed detached house in the suburbs.Depends what 'super-provider mode' means I guess. If it means working late and coming home stressed and therefore is detrimental to time with the kids, then no amount of providing is equal to your time or attention – in my opinion.
trails said:
I'll need to ask my wife where the extra £13k goes...raotfl at £40k...lets not get into hourly rate based on the amount of work teachers do outside school either.
Oh that old chestnut. Wink wink nudge nudge etc. Edited by trails on Tuesday 25th June 16:04
Edited by trails on Tuesday 25th June 16:05
I dare say at high school level it's a different ballgame but my SIL is a primary head of year. She's obviously very good at her job having got it 2 years after NQT. She enjoys her holidays. Rarely/never takes work home. Some of her colleagues go in during the summer holidays. There's no reasonable explanation as to why. She goes in to staple fresh sugar paper to the wall about 2 days before the start of term and that's it.
Unfortunately teaching doesn't seem to attract "copers"
Not a job I would want to do and I take my hat off to all high school or inner city teachers. Another family member does well within an academy group. Bit of a none job whizzing round different sites telling heads what to do. I don't know the numbers she does but it will be significant.
fridaypassion said:
Oh that old chestnut. Wink wink nudge nudge etc.
I dare say at high school level it's a different ballgame but my SIL is a primary head of year. She's obviously very good at her job having got it 2 years after NQT. She enjoys her holidays. Rarely/never takes work home. Some of her colleagues go in during the summer holidays. There's no reasonable explanation as to why. She goes in to staple fresh sugar paper to the wall about 2 days before the start of term and that's it.
Unfortunately teaching doesn't seem to attract "copers"
Not a job I would want to do and I take my hat off to all high school or inner city teachers. Another family member does well within an academy group. Bit of a none job whizzing round different sites telling heads what to do. I don't know the numbers she does but it will be significant.
My wife completed a second degree in English language and gained a first before she started her PGCE so she would qualify for support whilst re-training. She completed the degree whilst in full time employment as a campaign/press officer for an international charity. Believe me she copes.I dare say at high school level it's a different ballgame but my SIL is a primary head of year. She's obviously very good at her job having got it 2 years after NQT. She enjoys her holidays. Rarely/never takes work home. Some of her colleagues go in during the summer holidays. There's no reasonable explanation as to why. She goes in to staple fresh sugar paper to the wall about 2 days before the start of term and that's it.
Unfortunately teaching doesn't seem to attract "copers"
Not a job I would want to do and I take my hat off to all high school or inner city teachers. Another family member does well within an academy group. Bit of a none job whizzing round different sites telling heads what to do. I don't know the numbers she does but it will be significant.
As a Reception teacher (Reception...not high school), she did ten hour days five days a week and worked most Sundays preparing lessons and teaching media for her class. The only teacher in that school that didn’t do similar hours was on his retirement countdown and gave no fooks. All the other schools she worked in whilst on NQT and temping were the same.
The description of your SiL’s work/life balance does not align with the reality of any teaching as I have encountered, or even heard of. Your tone makes you sound like a bit of a knob by the way, nudge, nudge, wink, wink.
Slightly tongue in cheeck but teachers are not martyrs. At primary level it's not like you are sat marking homework. As an NQT the is work in setting up the lessons etc but they then need tweaking year on year. I think st one time there was a hamster to care for. It died and wasn't replaced.
My SIL is a highly intelligent woman. She was straight out of uni into a job and got her current role when everyone fell to bits during an offstead and some serious incompetence was found. She replaced someone with 15 years in the role. She's very calm and just deals with stuff. Come the 7 week holidays she's off on holiday when there are colleagues of hers that go in a couple of times a week for the entire time. What on earth are they doing?? Even on 10 hour days that's only 50 hours a week. I do more than that and I'm not moaning about it. I don't get those 50 hours pro rata'd back down by having 12 weeks holiday either!
Going back to the original theme if the thread she has been asked to apply for various other promotions but she's not interested. She recognises that in teaching when you do go down the career path the stress levels do increase and she's happy as she is and doesn't want the stress. She has a great work like balance loads of holidays and little stress. The hardest bit of the job is dealing with the parents from what I hear. The school whilst not in a deprived area isn't an idyllic rural one either so there have been some interesting safeguarding and behavioral cases that have cropped up that have required some real skill to deal with which were certainly impressive when she was only in her mid 20s.
If anyone is doing teaching and finding it stressful and the hours are too long etc nobody is forcing them to stay in the career. It's a bit like police can be sometimes. Everyone knows what they are signing up for. Don't sign up for it then start going on about how hard it is. The conditions relative to those endured by people in the private sector are still very favorable in terms of remuneration and certainly pensions even on the revised terms. Why can't these people just get on with it without wanting a medal? Its 2019 and pretty well everyone has more stress in their work life than they did 10 years ago. It's not the preserve of teachers.
My SIL is a highly intelligent woman. She was straight out of uni into a job and got her current role when everyone fell to bits during an offstead and some serious incompetence was found. She replaced someone with 15 years in the role. She's very calm and just deals with stuff. Come the 7 week holidays she's off on holiday when there are colleagues of hers that go in a couple of times a week for the entire time. What on earth are they doing?? Even on 10 hour days that's only 50 hours a week. I do more than that and I'm not moaning about it. I don't get those 50 hours pro rata'd back down by having 12 weeks holiday either!
Going back to the original theme if the thread she has been asked to apply for various other promotions but she's not interested. She recognises that in teaching when you do go down the career path the stress levels do increase and she's happy as she is and doesn't want the stress. She has a great work like balance loads of holidays and little stress. The hardest bit of the job is dealing with the parents from what I hear. The school whilst not in a deprived area isn't an idyllic rural one either so there have been some interesting safeguarding and behavioral cases that have cropped up that have required some real skill to deal with which were certainly impressive when she was only in her mid 20s.
If anyone is doing teaching and finding it stressful and the hours are too long etc nobody is forcing them to stay in the career. It's a bit like police can be sometimes. Everyone knows what they are signing up for. Don't sign up for it then start going on about how hard it is. The conditions relative to those endured by people in the private sector are still very favorable in terms of remuneration and certainly pensions even on the revised terms. Why can't these people just get on with it without wanting a medal? Its 2019 and pretty well everyone has more stress in their work life than they did 10 years ago. It's not the preserve of teachers.
This is me, absolutely zero ambition to get up the next rung of the ladder at work as I just can't be bothered with living in meeting rooms, interviewing people and doing appraisals 24/7.
I can earn more than those at that level by doing a bit of standby and overtime and i'm much happier doing that!
I can earn more than those at that level by doing a bit of standby and overtime and i'm much happier doing that!
I don’t think ambition always means moving up. I think it can just mean that you want to achieve a certain level of performance in your current role, if that’s where you’re happy. Some people are happy to just tick along in their job, not really applying themselves. Some people want to move up the ladder. And some, their ambition is to be the best at what they do, regardless of level.
Kewy said:
I have a 12 year old daughter and a little boy due anytime now. We're comfortable as a family, don't go without as such. But I have no desire for material goods, the newest Audi or a 5 bed detached house in the suburbs.
Depends what 'super-provider mode' means I guess. If it means working late and coming home stressed and therefore is detrimental to time with the kids, then no amount of providing is equal to your time or attention – in my opinion.
Yeah good point. If I had been coping on my current wage I don't think i would have had the same urge it's true. I was struggling with two kids in childcare at the same time and money was too tight to continue that way. I set up a business and worked very hard to make it a success...which was a long way from my default setting regarding such things. Totally respect anyone who provides for a family and absolutely no offence meant...it was just a personal change I went through.Depends what 'super-provider mode' means I guess. If it means working late and coming home stressed and therefore is detrimental to time with the kids, then no amount of providing is equal to your time or attention – in my opinion.
In the long run for me it meant a lot more time spent with my family...which is the same result by a different route
A lot of people on this thread who are claiming no ambition are, in the main, really "successful" people.
I don't have much in the way of ambition, certainly don't want to manage people or take on huge amounts of responsibility, but I've still got a well paid job that has a reasonable amount of responsibility. I've still had the drive to get an education (B.Sc, M.Sc and a Ph.D.), compete for jobs in big corporations and finished up doing alright.
In other words is all relative. If I say that I don't have much drive or ambition that may be true compared to what I've done in the past or to other people in my demographic, but compared to the 40 year old guy who has been stacking shelves since he left school I'm incredibly driven and ambitious.
I don't have much in the way of ambition, certainly don't want to manage people or take on huge amounts of responsibility, but I've still got a well paid job that has a reasonable amount of responsibility. I've still had the drive to get an education (B.Sc, M.Sc and a Ph.D.), compete for jobs in big corporations and finished up doing alright.
In other words is all relative. If I say that I don't have much drive or ambition that may be true compared to what I've done in the past or to other people in my demographic, but compared to the 40 year old guy who has been stacking shelves since he left school I'm incredibly driven and ambitious.
RTB said:
A lot of people on this thread who are claiming no ambition are, in the main, really "successful" people.
I don't have much in the way of ambition, certainly don't want to manage people or take on huge amounts of responsibility, but I've still got a well paid job that has a reasonable amount of responsibility. I've still had the drive to get an education (B.Sc, M.Sc and a Ph.D.), compete for jobs in big corporations and finished up doing alright.
In other words is all relative. If I say that I don't have much drive or ambition that may be true compared to what I've done in the past or to other people in my demographic, but compared to the 40 year old guy who has been stacking shelves since he left school I'm incredibly driven and ambitious.
Good point. I had the drive to get a degree and a career in IT. I had the drive to push for promotions. It wasn't until I reached a certain level that I lost that drive. I'm still on the high salary but I don't manage projects or people anymore, no more performance reviews and I've even left the inner circle of the leadership team (a gold badge around here). My priorities have changed with age and experience. After taking time out to nurse my father in his last weeks, work ambition just seemed nonsense to me. My drive is for not doing extra hours at work, taking on extra stress or pressure and spending more quality time with my family and friends. I don't have much in the way of ambition, certainly don't want to manage people or take on huge amounts of responsibility, but I've still got a well paid job that has a reasonable amount of responsibility. I've still had the drive to get an education (B.Sc, M.Sc and a Ph.D.), compete for jobs in big corporations and finished up doing alright.
In other words is all relative. If I say that I don't have much drive or ambition that may be true compared to what I've done in the past or to other people in my demographic, but compared to the 40 year old guy who has been stacking shelves since he left school I'm incredibly driven and ambitious.
I have a lot of old school mates who have spent all their working lives on a factory floor moaning about how they are much better than their bosses. Thing is, they never reached out and tried to make team lead, supervisor or manager. It's all relative.
dimots said:
Yeah good point. If I had been coping on my current wage I don't think i would have had the same urge it's true. I was struggling with two kids in childcare at the same time and money was too tight to continue that way. I set up a business and worked very hard to make it a success...which was a long way from my default setting regarding such things. Totally respect anyone who provides for a family and absolutely no offence meant...it was just a personal change I went through.
In the long run for me it meant a lot more time spent with my family...which is the same result by a different route
Yeh gotcha, everyones lifestyles different eh. No offence taken and I've not got a problem with people who have the opposing attitude. My brother is very much a workaholic and doing very well for himself for it.In the long run for me it meant a lot more time spent with my family...which is the same result by a different route
Just for me, I much prefer focusing my energy on other aspects of my lifestyle, right now anyway. Maybe one day that attitude will change, who knows? But happiness and health will always come before wealth in my book I think
trails said:
Not sure who is complaining, requesting martyrdom or making comparisons to the private sector...I'm just challanging your "teaching is an easy way to earn a wage" post.
Sorry not sure where I said it was easy. Does anyone genuinely have an easy job any more? There are always stresses and strains. Binmen probably get stressed at times. Teaching it's fair to say does have a bit of a culture of overplaying the sacrifices/hours/ stress involved in some cases. They aren't getting shot at or running into burning buildings as some less will paid public servants have to do. We have 3 in our immediate family and it's just not in the family culture to be worrying too much. Maybe they work in better managed schools. We have one go getter and the other two for the moment are happy just doing the job they trained to do. All three of them love the job and rarely if ever complain about it. The only time we hear anything is when Ofsted are knocking which does cause a very high level of stress which is understandable given the consequences of a bad one. Again though I run a business and with Google reviews and the like I along with almost all business owners have a mini Ofsted every day. This is what life is now and most professional people will have some kind of approval body to pander too. Tests to take etc.
It's probably a subject worthy of its own thread but genuine sacrifices and going above and beyond in work I have seen a couple of examples of deeply impressive individuals.
We have a charity locally we support through our business a food bank. They have one paid member of staff in addition to volunteers. The lady that runs it is paid for about 30 hours but spends most of her time helping families in crisis. Middle of the night whenever. I can't imagine she gets paid very much but she's someone I regard amongst the most highly of really anyone I know. It's rare to see such selflessness these days. I'd be interested to hear her views on ambition. Too busy helping other people to prioritise her own I suspect.
Another contented individual I respect enormously.
RTB said:
A lot of people on this thread who are claiming no ambition are, in the main, really "successful" people.
I don't have much in the way of ambition, certainly don't want to manage people or take on huge amounts of responsibility, but I've still got a well paid job that has a reasonable amount of responsibility. I've still had the drive to get an education (B.Sc, M.Sc and a Ph.D.), compete for jobs in big corporations and finished up doing alright.
In other words is all relative. If I say that I don't have much drive or ambition that may be true compared to what I've done in the past or to other people in my demographic, but compared to the 40 year old guy who has been stacking shelves since he left school I'm incredibly driven and ambitious.
Definitely.I don't have much in the way of ambition, certainly don't want to manage people or take on huge amounts of responsibility, but I've still got a well paid job that has a reasonable amount of responsibility. I've still had the drive to get an education (B.Sc, M.Sc and a Ph.D.), compete for jobs in big corporations and finished up doing alright.
In other words is all relative. If I say that I don't have much drive or ambition that may be true compared to what I've done in the past or to other people in my demographic, but compared to the 40 year old guy who has been stacking shelves since he left school I'm incredibly driven and ambitious.
The problem is that the further you get up the ladder, there are fewer positions that don't require you to be a people manager.
I'm think I'm quite good at what I do, and like you have worked up to a well paid job (well, middling by PH standards!), but I'm just not a good people manager. It doesn't interest me, and I don't think it is great for people that I manage.
I'd say that could qualify as some lack of ambition since I'm not prepared to undertake training or live with it in order to progress further. As you say, it's all relative.
Gary29 said:
JS2808 said:
Out of curiosity what do you all regard as a good salary? Assuming a 40 hour ish week, not overtime etc.
Uk average is ~£29K, so anything above that.I’m in my late 20’s and in London, needing to upgrade from a 600sqft to a house and pay for a wedding alongside general living. £29k would be impossible.
Even at over 3x of that now (coupled with a fiancé earning marginally less than the national average) it can be a bit tight some months - it’s how you cut your cloth and expected lifestyle that makes as much of a difference.
kiethton said:
Very much a function of your stage in life and geographic location is it not.
I’m in my late 20’s and in London, needing to upgrade from a 600sqft to a house and pay for a wedding alongside general living. £29k would be impossible.
Even at over 3x of that now (coupled with a fiancé earning marginally less than the national average) it can be a bit tight some months - it’s how you cut your cloth and expected lifestyle that makes as much of a difference.
The median wage for inner London is only £34k, if as a couple, you're on over £110k a year and still struggle how on earth do 75% of the rest of the population live? I’m in my late 20’s and in London, needing to upgrade from a 600sqft to a house and pay for a wedding alongside general living. £29k would be impossible.
Even at over 3x of that now (coupled with a fiancé earning marginally less than the national average) it can be a bit tight some months - it’s how you cut your cloth and expected lifestyle that makes as much of a difference.
(Source https://www.cityam.com/where-can-you-earn-most-uk-...
Condi said:
kiethton said:
Very much a function of your stage in life and geographic location is it not.
I’m in my late 20’s and in London, needing to upgrade from a 600sqft to a house and pay for a wedding alongside general living. £29k would be impossible.
Even at over 3x of that now (coupled with a fiancé earning marginally less than the national average) it can be a bit tight some months - it’s how you cut your cloth and expected lifestyle that makes as much of a difference.
The median wage for inner London is only £34k, if as a couple, you're on over £110k a year and still struggle how on earth do 75% of the rest of the population live? I’m in my late 20’s and in London, needing to upgrade from a 600sqft to a house and pay for a wedding alongside general living. £29k would be impossible.
Even at over 3x of that now (coupled with a fiancé earning marginally less than the national average) it can be a bit tight some months - it’s how you cut your cloth and expected lifestyle that makes as much of a difference.
(Source https://www.cityam.com/where-can-you-earn-most-uk-...
Condi said:
kiethton said:
Very much a function of your stage in life and geographic location is it not.
I’m in my late 20’s and in London, needing to upgrade from a 600sqft to a house and pay for a wedding alongside general living. £29k would be impossible.
Even at over 3x of that now (coupled with a fiancé earning marginally less than the national average) it can be a bit tight some months - it’s how you cut your cloth and expected lifestyle that makes as much of a difference.
The median wage for inner London is only £34k, if as a couple, you're on over £110k a year and still struggle how on earth do 75% of the rest of the population live? I’m in my late 20’s and in London, needing to upgrade from a 600sqft to a house and pay for a wedding alongside general living. £29k would be impossible.
Even at over 3x of that now (coupled with a fiancé earning marginally less than the national average) it can be a bit tight some months - it’s how you cut your cloth and expected lifestyle that makes as much of a difference.
(Source https://www.cityam.com/where-can-you-earn-most-uk-...
Housing is the big issue. If you want to have a relatively modest house in an ok area, and you are not backed by parental gifts or inheritance, then a mortgage of 5 x £34k plus a reasonable deposit isn't going to get you very far.
You have to have a reasonably high amount of ambition to live in London compared to previous generations.
I always trot out the same example of surburban semis that were owned by taxi drivers and clerical workers in the 80s/90s now being worth £1m++ and out of reach of anyone on anything less than several times the average salary.
Edited by kingston12 on Wednesday 26th June 11:24
Gassing Station | The Lounge | Top of Page | What's New | My Stuff