Things you always wanted to know the answer to [Vol. 5]

[Brother D]

Why do Americans 'rotate the tires' at each service? I'm not quite sure of the benefits?

Considering the vast majority of cars are two wheel drive, wouldn't it make sense to replace the driven tires more often, rather than waiting longer and replacing all tires at the same time when they wear down?

[captain_cynic]

Brother D said:

Why do Americans 'rotate the tires' at each service? I'm not quite sure of the benefits?

Considering the vast majority of cars are two wheel drive, wouldn't it make sense to replace the driven tires more often, rather than waiting longer and replacing all tires at the same time when they wear down?

Even wear.

You'll get better deals buying 4 tyres than 2. Even here in the bad old days 3 for 4 was not unusual.

[P-Jay]

Brother D said:

Why do Americans 'rotate the tires' at each service? I'm not quite sure of the benefits?

Considering the vast majority of cars are two wheel drive, wouldn't it make sense to replace the driven tires more often, rather than waiting longer and replacing all tires at the same time when they wear down?

I don't know, but I suspect it's just one of those odd American things that are all to do with money and little to do with maintenance, like their 5000 mile oil changes (or even less).

[Clockwork Cupcake]

I rotate my tyres, but mainly because the front left takes a hammering on clockwise circuits and it evens out the wear so that I can replace tyres in pairs.

With unidirectional tyres the best you can do is rotate front to back otherwise I would probably just swap left to right.

Fun fact: You can't rotate front to back on the Sagaris as, although the tyres and wheels are the same size, the front and rear have different offsets. Because TVR.

Edited by Clockwork Cupcake on Monday 18th March 16:55

[RATATTAK]

captain_cynic said:

Even wear.

You'll get better deals buying 4 tyres than 2. Even here in the bad old days 3 for 4 4 for 3 was not unusual.

FTFY

[Trustmeimadoctor]

P-Jay said:

Brother D said:

Why do Americans 'rotate the tires' at each service? I'm not quite sure of the benefits?

Considering the vast majority of cars are two wheel drive, wouldn't it make sense to replace the driven tires more often, rather than waiting longer and replacing all tires at the same time when they wear down?

I don't know, but I suspect it's just one of those odd American things that are all to do with money and little to do with maintenance, like their 5000 mile oil changes (or even less).

america is also conversely the land of never changing oil

[Nethybridge]

If a car's alignment
is correctly set up I fail to see
the reason to correct tyre wear, certainly
if it's a FWD car the fronts will out-wear the rears,
but the point of spending hours swapping them round really
makes no sense as they all will wear out eventually.
In my experience if everything is fine, it drives straight, no wander or drift,
no steering wheel wobble keeping the same
wheel on the same hub makes
life so much easier, in fact I mark the wheels
so the local tyre fitting
monkeys
don't put 'em on the wrong corner.

[Jordie Barretts sock]

Brother D said:

Jordie Barretts sock said:

Crock pot and brisket.

Sorry, but that was just lazy.

Wait what? Why is that lazy?

How else are you supposed to make Corned beef and cabbage from briskit??

Because it is a crock pot (which is a trade name of a slow cooker, like Hoover for vacuum cleaner and Biro for a ball point pen) and the cut of beef is brisket not briskit which sounds like something from Little Britain's Fat Fighters.

[Snow and Rocks]

Brother D said:

Why do Americans 'rotate the tires' at each service? I'm not quite sure of the benefits?

Considering the vast majority of cars are two wheel drive, wouldn't it make sense to replace the driven tires more often, rather than waiting longer and replacing all tires at the same time when they wear down?

On my old Land Cruiser, the (very old school) garage that did the servicing made a point of having all the wheels off to properly check the brakes etc and rotate the tyres every time. I routinely got 70k miles out of a set of BFG all terrain tyres.

The same tyres on my Hilux that have never been rotated are now 60k miles down with some tread left but make an absolute racket. So while there's no apparent difference in tread life, I'll definitely be swapping them around in future - the droning at 60mph is doing my head in!

[Truckosaurus]

Also, American tyres are often much more longer lasting than European tyres (they even have their tyres marked with a hardness rating), with adverts making longevity the most important feature rather than more grip that our ads have.

So if your tyres are going to last 50k miles it is worth swapping them around every service, whereas here they'd be nearing replacement.

[Strangely Brown]

Truckosaurus said:

Also, American tyres are often much more longer lasting than European tyres (they even have their tyres marked with a hardness rating), with adverts making longevity the most important feature rather than more grip that our ads have.

So if your tyres are going to last 50k miles it is worth swapping them around every service, whereas here they'd be nearing replacement.

Friends of mine moved to the US a few decades ago having grown up here with the usual selection of British cars and vans etc. When it came time for their car there to need new tyres the lady of the house took it down to the local tyre tire shop to have a set fitted. She was horrified when they offered her a set that had a 100k mile treadwear warranty and politely, but firmly, refused opting instead for something that would actually grip the road.
The shop owner couldn't understand why she would choose something that was more expensive and wouldn't last as long.
I should also add that this was in southern California where it doesn't rain that often but when it does everyone seems to just fall off the road. I wonder why.

Edited by Strangely Brown on Monday 18th March 20:28

[Error_404_Username_not_found]

Ready to be corrected but ISTR that Americans stuck with crossplies longer than we did, before eventually embracing the concept of the radial tyre.
Also: as a Scot who lived some time in SoCal I can attest to Californians blithe indifference to tyre management and their ignorance of wet weather driving.
I can remember coming back from dropping a friend off at LAX in a downpour and being passed at 80+ by an old Econoline aquaplaning happily on the the freeway. The obligatory bumper sticker said "Jesus is in control".
Not of the van, He wasn't.

[Clockwork Cupcake]

Nethybridge said:

If a car's alignment is correctly set up I fail to see the reason to correct tyre wear

Car owners in Milton Keynes regularly wear their front left far quicker than their other tyres, due to all the roundabouts. You can either more regularly replace the front left singly as required or you can balance the wear and then replace in pairs which often attracts a discount.

[mko9]

Error_404_Username_not_found said:

Ready to be corrected but ISTR that Americans stuck with crossplies longer than we did, before eventually embracing the concept of the radial tyre.
Also: as a Scot who lived some time in SoCal I can attest to Californians blithe indifference to tyre management and their ignorance of wet weather driving.
I can remember coming back from dropping a friend off at LAX in a downpour and being passed at 80+ by an old Econoline aquaplaning happily on the the freeway. The obligatory bumper sticker said "Jesus is in control".
Not of the van, He wasn't.

Little known fact, Jesus was one of the first drifters. Used to drift the family donkey cart while delivering furniture from his Dad's carpentry shop.

[Rusty Old-Banger]

Clockwork Cupcake said:

Nethybridge said:

If a car's alignment is correctly set up I fail to see the reason to correct tyre wear

Car owners in Milton Keynes regularly wear their front left far quicker than their other tyres, due to all the roundabouts. You can either more regularly replace the front left singly as required or you can balance the wear and then replace in pairs which often attracts a discount.

Is that true? I'm a road engineer, so from a technical POV regarding alignment:

If taking exit one, then it's essentially a left turn, so heavier wear on the right tyre.
If taking exit two, then it's deflect left, then right, then left again to exit. The wear should be even-ish.
If taking exit three, then it's deflect left to enter, right on the roundabout (for longer than straight ahead) and then left again to exit. So slightly more wear to the left.

So provided you are using all exits a similar amount, the wear on all tyres should be reasonably even. The asymmetric wear caused by taking exit 3 would be balanced by that caused by taking exit 1 - and if using exit 3 on the way to the shops, then you'd be using exit 1 on the way home.

ETA I know it's naughty and they used to have TV adverts advising against it, but for real drifting you want radials on the front and cross-ply on the back. I used to have a Mk1 Fiesta that I could get drift-o for days with that set up. On private land, of course.

[GasEngineer]

Strangely Brown said:

t this was in southern California where it doesn't rain that often but when it does everyone seems to just fall off the road. I wonder why.

AIUI It never rains in California
But girl, don't they warn ya?
It pours, man, it pours..

[Abbott]

Rusty Old-Banger said:

Clockwork Cupcake said:

Nethybridge said:

If a car's alignment is correctly set up I fail to see the reason to correct tyre wear

Car owners in Milton Keynes regularly wear their front left far quicker than their other tyres, due to all the roundabouts. You can either more regularly replace the front left singly as required or you can balance the wear and then replace in pairs which often attracts a discount.

Is that true? I'm a road engineer, so from a technical POV regarding alignment:

If taking exit one, then it's essentially a left turn, so heavier wear on the right tyre.
If taking exit two, then it's deflect left, then right, then left again to exit. The wear should be even-ish.
If taking exit three, then it's deflect left to enter, right on the roundabout (for longer than straight ahead) and then left again to exit. So slightly more wear to the left.

So provided you are using all exits a similar amount, the wear on all tyres should be reasonably even. The asymmetric wear caused by taking exit 3 would be balanced by that caused by taking exit 1 - and if using exit 3 on the way to the shops, then you'd be using exit 1 on the way home.

ETA I know it's naughty and they used to have TV adverts advising against it, but for real drifting you want radials on the front and cross-ply on the back. I used to have a Mk1 Fiesta that I could get drift-o for days with that set up. On private land, of course.

Sounds reasonable to me that there should be more wear on front left.
for any desired exit there is an on and off so they cancel each other out so you are left with the additional load on front left for each scenario.
I imagine if you are taking the first exit in one curve you may be not following the Highway Code

[Rusty Old-Banger]

Strangely Brown said:

I should also add that this was in southern California where it doesn't rain that often but when it does everyone seems to just fall off the road. I wonder why.

This is due to a few different reasons. It's not down to their tyres, suspension etc.

The surface of the road builds up oil deposits, which create a slick when it rains.
The macrotexture fills up with dust, which either prevents effective drainage of the road (a lot of water gets "stored" in the cracks between the aggregate), or the silt lifts up and creates a very slippery road surface, like driving on lots of tiny wet marbles.

[Pit Pony]

Halmyre said:

Pit Pony said:

Nethybridge said:

Was it ever a thing for a daughter to be bestowed her mother's
first name, or are women more pragmatic and
less concerned with such self important flim flammery ?

In our family it's usually second names that get passed down.

In Scotland it used to be grandparents' names. If you got a run of daughters, some poor girl would end up as Hectorina or Thomasina.

One of my Cousins is called Gwendolin after her gran,

[Rusty Old-Banger]

Abbott said:

Rusty Old-Banger said:

Clockwork Cupcake said:

Nethybridge said:

If a car's alignment is correctly set up I fail to see the reason to correct tyre wear

Car owners in Milton Keynes regularly wear their front left far quicker than their other tyres, due to all the roundabouts. You can either more regularly replace the front left singly as required or you can balance the wear and then replace in pairs which often attracts a discount.

Is that true? I'm a road engineer, so from a technical POV regarding alignment:

If taking exit one, then it's essentially a left turn, so heavier wear on the right tyre.
If taking exit two, then it's deflect left, then right, then left again to exit. The wear should be even-ish.
If taking exit three, then it's deflect left to enter, right on the roundabout (for longer than straight ahead) and then left again to exit. So slightly more wear to the left.

So provided you are using all exits a similar amount, the wear on all tyres should be reasonably even. The asymmetric wear caused by taking exit 3 would be balanced by that caused by taking exit 1 - and if using exit 3 on the way to the shops, then you'd be using exit 1 on the way home.

ETA I know it's naughty and they used to have TV adverts advising against it, but for real drifting you want radials on the front and cross-ply on the back. I used to have a Mk1 Fiesta that I could get drift-o for days with that set up. On private land, of course.

Sounds reasonable to me that there should be more wear on front left.
for any desired exit there is an on and off so they cancel each other out so you are left with the additional load on front left for each scenario.
I imagine if you are taking the first exit in one curve you may be not following the Highway Code

You'd think so, but I run vehicle tracking software, which shows steering values. Apart from large, motorway/trunk junctions, most roundabouts do not need any right hand steering if you are leaving at exit one, and you still remain fully compliant with road/lane markings etc. There is as much entry deflection as there is exit deflection - quite often MORE entry deflection (turning left, therefore more load on the right) to reduce entry speeds. If you want I can link the geometry requirements, but I warn you it is VERY boring stuff.

This is a typical Milton Keynes roundabout, chosen at random (as this was the original example given).
https://www.google.co.uk/maps/@52.0368021,-0.75572...

How much right hand down you think you need, leaving at exit one - on any approach?

Anyway, this is all splitting hairs - given modern anti-roll bars, the fact most cars are more loaded on the drivers (right hand) side, and the very low speeds concerned etc I would imagine the actual differential in wear is practically immeasurable. We aren't going through the 130R at 180mph.