Private schools, times a changing?
Discussion
fridaypassion said:
Ah the snow panic.
This from our primary this morning
It's not really getting resilience over to the kids.
Meanwhile today I'm travelling to the other end of the country and back via train/car. Already had a couple of problems on the way. Worked around them and cracking on. The school are always like this they are absolutely determined to close.
It’s also presuming parents aren’t working double shift in the NHS or Amazon and can easily drop everything to homeschool them on Friday. This from our primary this morning
It's not really getting resilience over to the kids.
Meanwhile today I'm travelling to the other end of the country and back via train/car. Already had a couple of problems on the way. Worked around them and cracking on. The school are always like this they are absolutely determined to close.
I’m ignoring calls from ours. Sorry in meetings all day will collect them as usual now get on with your job of teaching and let me worry about getting them home.
NDA said:
vikingaero said:
The crazy thing about Labour/private schools is that you would effectively put more pupils back into state education and make most schools harder to get into. More pupils will be displaced and there would be more travel.
This sets aside the vast cost to the state. If 30% of private school pupils relocated to state schools, it would be a financial disaster. Also I don't see more state schools being built - it's an ill thought out strategy based purely on politics.Will universities charge VAT? Or just private schools? How might that work?
If a labour government really believed in what they were doing they'd nationalise all independent schools. I'd love to see some of the legal actions from some very rich donors however. And you can guarantee that over the subsequent decade you'd see the lack of investment wreak havoc in everything they'd taken over.
BoRED S2upid said:
AstonZagato said:
A couple of considerations (for the record, I was privately educated, as were my three children):
Not anymore for oxbridge. They are bending over backwards to find intelligent kids from the rough areas to fill their quotas. - If your child is Oxbridge material, the entry requirements are very heavily stacked against them. A lot of parents will put their kids in state six form colleges so that they tick the "state school entry" box. No other university is really called out on state vs private entry, so the pressure is less elsewhere. US Ivy League colleges have no qualms - but they are expensive unless you can win a sporting scholarship (a lot of the Eton/St Pauls/Radley first VIII crews seemingly now go to US colleges).
- When you consider the cost, would you be better off just, say, buying a property for you child? 12 years of £25k+ pays a chunky mortgage, particularly if you rent it out until they graduate university. They might not have quite the education but they go have a mortgage free property to give them security.
My 3 kids all go to private schools, we certainly found it difficult covering the fees, especially during the pandemic but got there in the end.
We used private day school as they had smaller classes, more facilities and less issues with disruptive kids, plus I think it’s beneficial going to a school with usually financially successful parents from different backgrounds and careers and the kids aren’t perhaps as limited by their parents jobs and world view.
Although it’s not all about qualifications for us, I just wanted my kids to achieve their potential as I saw it, my first one got an offer from Oxford so kids from private schools are still getting in there anyway.
Edited by u-boat on Thursday 9th March 13:12
ClaphamGT3 said:
They absolutely will sadly. Dismantling the independent schools sector is an inviolate article of faith for Reeves and Phillipson. It's bad politics, its bad economics but they are 100% committed to it
I’m not sure labour generally are though. Lots of labour MPs use private school or went there themselves. Rayner made an attack on them years ago at the party conference saying labour would seize their assets and assimilate them into the state but it seemed like she was going solo and it was dropped soon after.
At the end of the day labour know that to win an election they have to still represent aspiration (and patriotism) however awkwardly they try to do it and not be seen as the party that takes stuff away from people.
We sent both kids to private secondary school. They both did well - our son became head boy at his independent.
Mrs B insisted our daughter attended an all girl school, as she had done.
As an earlier poster wrote, they gain far more than 'just' a good education. They have value and self worth. They approach the world with confidence. They are well adjusted to life - which is more than can be said of their father.
However, both went to the local primary. It had an excellent reputation. The school itself was pretty poor. But, 80% of the kids had extra curricula private tutors to help them get through the Independent exams.
As for boarding school, and to don my professional hat for a moment. Ex boarders are over represented in psychiatric and addiction units.
"We love you so much that we're sending you away from us".
This doesn't mean that boarding doesn't work for individuals. However, I've worked with quite a few clients who have struggled to cope with their perceived 'abandonment' as a child by their primary care-givers..
Mrs B insisted our daughter attended an all girl school, as she had done.
As an earlier poster wrote, they gain far more than 'just' a good education. They have value and self worth. They approach the world with confidence. They are well adjusted to life - which is more than can be said of their father.
However, both went to the local primary. It had an excellent reputation. The school itself was pretty poor. But, 80% of the kids had extra curricula private tutors to help them get through the Independent exams.
As for boarding school, and to don my professional hat for a moment. Ex boarders are over represented in psychiatric and addiction units.
"We love you so much that we're sending you away from us".
This doesn't mean that boarding doesn't work for individuals. However, I've worked with quite a few clients who have struggled to cope with their perceived 'abandonment' as a child by their primary care-givers..
Blib said:
We sent both kids to private secondary school. They both did well - our son became head boy at his independent.
Mrs B insisted our daughter attended an all girl school, as she had done.
As an earlier poster wrote, they gain far more than 'just' a good education. They have value and self worth. They approach the world with confidence. They are well adjusted to life - which is more than can be said of their father.
However, both went to the local primary. It had an excellent reputation. The school itself was pretty poor. But, 80% of the kids had extra curricula private tutors to help them get through the Independent exams.
As for boarding school, and to don my professional hat for a moment. Ex boarders are over represented in psychiatric and addiction units.
"We love you so much that we're sending you away from us".
This doesn't mean that boarding doesn't work for individuals. However, I've worked with quite a few clients who have struggled to cope with their perceived 'abandonment' as a child by their primary care-givers..
I went to boarding school for secondary school as I grew up in the colonies and my older brother was going a bit off the rails at the local school generally getting distracted by the exotic girls we grew up around, so tragically we both got shipped off from a frankly awesome adolescence to a boys boarding school in Scotland. Although I enjoyed many aspects of it (mainly activities which were best classed as extra curricular) I can imagine many people suffered either at school itself or afterwards psychologically. Mrs B insisted our daughter attended an all girl school, as she had done.
As an earlier poster wrote, they gain far more than 'just' a good education. They have value and self worth. They approach the world with confidence. They are well adjusted to life - which is more than can be said of their father.
However, both went to the local primary. It had an excellent reputation. The school itself was pretty poor. But, 80% of the kids had extra curricula private tutors to help them get through the Independent exams.
As for boarding school, and to don my professional hat for a moment. Ex boarders are over represented in psychiatric and addiction units.
"We love you so much that we're sending you away from us".
This doesn't mean that boarding doesn't work for individuals. However, I've worked with quite a few clients who have struggled to cope with their perceived 'abandonment' as a child by their primary care-givers..
I certainly wouldn’t send my kids to boarding school as a result of my experiences and how I perceive my kids, but I know others still thrive there.
Edited by u-boat on Thursday 9th March 13:29
Boarding is a very different experience now compared to 70’s/80’s. Flexi boarding and far better pastoral care should prevent some of the past horrors happening.
Every child is different. I hated my first two years and had a ball over the next three. None of ours will probably board, although the number of activities they do might mean that some element of flexi boarding might actually be better for them.
Every child is different. I hated my first two years and had a ball over the next three. None of ours will probably board, although the number of activities they do might mean that some element of flexi boarding might actually be better for them.
Leithen said:
Boarding is a very different experience now compared to 70’s/80’s. Flexi boarding and far better pastoral care should prevent some of the past horrors happening.
I bet they’ve banned caning the kids and you don’t have to spend your time avoiding old pervert housemasters. I tell my wife about the things that happened at my school and she’s frankly horrified. She always is shocked after a story about my school days and says (in horror) “that’s not normal” or “omg” . . . she only went to a local state school though so had a relatively healthy and less psychologically damaging upbringing.
I agree though, boarding school has changed loads for the best. It’s still not for my kids though. I don’t think they’d do well there tbh.
We put our two boys through private education all the way through as day pupils. Both are now at Russell Group Uni's. Would we do it again? Yes, most definitely but many of the points in this thread do ring true. Oxbridge is now much harder to attain for privately educated kids, and a good proportion of the ones who are offered places are from overseas (usually Chinese or HK Chinese). The proportion of overseas students in UK Private Schools is increasing and will continue to do so, probably exponentially if a Labour govt drives up the prices.
With help from our parents and some academic scholarships it was affordable for us, but full boarding would have been a real stretch. Many highly thought of boarding schools have day houses and I believe this is on the increase. This option worked well for us but we did consider moving them back to the state system and a grammar school. Our eldest aced the 11+ but we were concerned his younger brother might not do the same and we would end up giving them a different experience. Once you have experienced all that a good private school can offer it's hard to pull away from this.
With help from our parents and some academic scholarships it was affordable for us, but full boarding would have been a real stretch. Many highly thought of boarding schools have day houses and I believe this is on the increase. This option worked well for us but we did consider moving them back to the state system and a grammar school. Our eldest aced the 11+ but we were concerned his younger brother might not do the same and we would end up giving them a different experience. Once you have experienced all that a good private school can offer it's hard to pull away from this.
gregd said:
Once you have experienced all that a good private school can offer it's hard to pull away from this.
This is the point I make to friends who privately educate their kids up to the 11+ Expecting them to make grammar. Once the child has experience the private system if they don’t make the grade for grammar then I think in some cases the state system will be a bit of a shock.
gregd said:
Oxbridge is now much harder to attain for privately educated kids, and a good proportion of the ones who are offered places are from overseas (usually Chinese or HK Chinese).
I agree. I think there's a lot to be said now for educating privately up to GCSE and then moving to a good state school (supplemented by private tutors) for A-levels, so that any university application isn't from an independent school. I know several families that have done this in recent years.Cheaper and more chance of being accepted by one's preferred university, as there seems to be an increasing prejudice amongst admissions departments against privately educated applicants.
Edited by chemistry on Thursday 9th March 14:24
ChocolateFrog said:
Most of you have clearly never been anywhere near an average or below state school.
It just wouldn't be a debate if you could remotely afford it.
The local primary school I went to got shut down by OFSTED, add to that I couldn't read/write a single word of English aged 9, I ended doing fine. My wife was fully state school educated with no issues. It just wouldn't be a debate if you could remotely afford it.
We are lucky enough to now be able to easily afford private education, our daughter goes to the local state run primary school.
GT3Manthey said:
gregd said:
Once you have experienced all that a good private school can offer it's hard to pull away from this.
This is the point I make to friends who privately educate their kids up to the 11+ Expecting them to make grammar. Once the child has experience the private system if they don’t make the grade for grammar then I think in some cases the state system will be a bit of a shock.
u-boat said:
BoRED S2upid said:
AstonZagato said:
A couple of considerations (for the record, I was privately educated, as were my three children):
Not anymore for oxbridge. They are bending over backwards to find intelligent kids from the rough areas to fill their quotas. - If your child is Oxbridge material, the entry requirements are very heavily stacked against them. A lot of parents will put their kids in state six form colleges so that they tick the "state school entry" box. No other university is really called out on state vs private entry, so the pressure is less elsewhere. US Ivy League colleges have no qualms - but they are expensive unless you can win a sporting scholarship (a lot of the Eton/St Pauls/Radley first VIII crews seemingly now go to US colleges).
- When you consider the cost, would you be better off just, say, buying a property for you child? 12 years of £25k+ pays a chunky mortgage, particularly if you rent it out until they graduate university. They might not have quite the education but they go have a mortgage free property to give them security.
Tom8 said:
Horses for courses, but I wouldn't change it. If/when labour get into power I'd be amazed if they pursued private schools agenda but they are mad so who knows. If they added VAT it would be a real struggle but I would find a way.
The VAT on private school fees won't equate to a straight 20% addition to the existing fees in practice (assuming it happens, and happens at the current VAT rate). All private schools are looking at this and the reality will be a low single digit % increase in day fees, and less again for boarding fees. There are various reasons for this, notably that you can separate out the education from the residential costs and also that VAT can then be reclaimed on capital projects. Edited by Tom8 on Thursday 9th March 10:28
So whilst it's obviously not good news (not to mention a terrible idea), it won't have anything like the worst-case impact that some people think.
Arnold Cunningham said:
I've never given a damn about oxbridge. Both my brothers in law went to oxford. Both can barely tie their shoelaces, let alone drive a car, despite "on paper" being highy intelligent.
Presumably they are actually highly intelligent just that their intelligence might be exhibited in a a different way to yours? My son didn’t have any academic scholarships at school and was never top of his classes, he decided he wanted to go to Oxford and did really well in their aptitude tests etc. and got an offer, he’s obviously quite academic in some way and hopefully he’ll find a rewarding career that’s suits his ability.
It’s easy to look at oxbridge and scoff but there’s a lot of respected organisations recruiting from there. They can all be wrong can they?
easytiger123 said:
Tom8 said:
Horses for courses, but I wouldn't change it. If/when labour get into power I'd be amazed if they pursued private schools agenda but they are mad so who knows. If they added VAT it would be a real struggle but I would find a way.
The VAT on private school fees won't equate to a straight 20% addition to the existing fees in practice (assuming it happens, and happens at the current VAT rate). All private schools are looking at this and the reality will be a low single digit % increase in day fees, and less again for boarding fees. There are various reasons for this, notably that you can separate out the education from the residential costs and also that VAT can then be reclaimed on capital projects. Edited by Tom8 on Thursday 9th March 10:28
So whilst it's obviously not good news (not to mention a terrible idea), it won't have anything like the worst-case impact that some people think.
gangzoom said:
The local primary school I went to got shut down by OFSTED, add to that I couldn't read/write a single word of English aged 9, I ended doing fine. My wife was fully state school educated with no issues.
We are lucky enough to now be able to easily afford private education, our daughter goes to the local state run primary school.
Each to their own but I just tried to give the best opportunities to my kids and for us that was always the private option. We are lucky enough to now be able to easily afford private education, our daughter goes to the local state run primary school.
Sure you’ve made a lot of money and could (easily) afford private education but do you think your kids will have the best chances to fulfil their potential (however you define that) at local state or private school?
Will you continue to keep your kids at state school as they get older? Have you done anything alternatively like moved to a catchment area for the top state schools?
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