Religion/beliefs
Discussion
tamore said:
T1547 said:
I’ve long thought I’d really like to be part of a ‘club/church’ that meets every Sunday morning in a beautiful building, sing some nice songs, have some tea/cake, maybe a drop of red wine, meet local people from the community, listen to a philosophical/moral sermon, time for reflection etc but critically, with no sky fairy involved.
There’s a lot to like about religion but I can’t buy into the ‘god’ figure and on the odd occasion I attend church I feel like a phoney.
There must be a gap in the market for this sort of thing!
that's called 'a pub' There’s a lot to like about religion but I can’t buy into the ‘god’ figure and on the odd occasion I attend church I feel like a phoney.
There must be a gap in the market for this sort of thing!
I will be a good and regular member of the congregation.Seriously though, I’d like the moral teachings/discussion of a church, but without the baggage of having to believe in something. The stand up sit down kneel palaver can be left out too..
You can believe whatever you want to believe, it's largely irrelevant as any faith/religion is nonsense anyway. By all means believe in whatever you wish, join up with others who hold the same beliefs, but never assume that your views are somehow better than others.
In short, it's all a bit of a waste of time and effort - but that's down to you.
In short, it's all a bit of a waste of time and effort - but that's down to you.
Stuart70 said:
I think we are in wholehearted agreement in substance regarding religion, I am more willing to judge adversely as a consequence.
That makes you the better person.
I have no fear of death at all. The two elements that bother me are the pain of dying and the impact my passing would have on my family; they are practical things not existential angst.
That’s fair enough.But what about after the passing, is that really the end of ends of everything we knew about consciously being alive .surely there is more as I have sensed it although can’t channel it to mainstream religion That makes you the better person.
I have no fear of death at all. The two elements that bother me are the pain of dying and the impact my passing would have on my family; they are practical things not existential angst.
Jack.77 said:
Stuart70 said:
I think we are in wholehearted agreement in substance regarding religion, I am more willing to judge adversely as a consequence.
That makes you the better person.
I have no fear of death at all. The two elements that bother me are the pain of dying and the impact my passing would have on my family; they are practical things not existential angst.
That’s fair enough.But what about after the passing, is that really the end of ends of everything we knew about consciously being alive .surely there is more as I have sensed it although can’t channel it to mainstream religion That makes you the better person.
I have no fear of death at all. The two elements that bother me are the pain of dying and the impact my passing would have on my family; they are practical things not existential angst.
Silvanus said:
Jack.77 said:
Stuart70 said:
I think we are in wholehearted agreement in substance regarding religion, I am more willing to judge adversely as a consequence.
That makes you the better person.
I have no fear of death at all. The two elements that bother me are the pain of dying and the impact my passing would have on my family; they are practical things not existential angst.
That’s fair enough.But what about after the passing, is that really the end of ends of everything we knew about consciously being alive .surely there is more as I have sensed it although can’t channel it to mainstream religion That makes you the better person.
I have no fear of death at all. The two elements that bother me are the pain of dying and the impact my passing would have on my family; they are practical things not existential angst.
If only multicellular entities have souls when and why did they appear? It isn’t something that can be explained by evolution.
If souls survive death then they can’t be made of ordinary matter yet they must interact with ordinary matter (to be connected to your body). How does that work? Why haven’t we been able to measure that interaction? I mean we (as a species) have identified and indirectly measured the particles that make up the standard model even those that can’t exist individually (quarks), we have managed to measure gravity waves, etc. Why has there never been any proof of souls?
Your conscious experience is linked indelibly to your body and relies on parts of your brain working together. We can easily switch it off with drugs. How could that consciousness carry on without a body to generate it? If it doesn’t need a body then why do you need a body to generate it when you are alive?
How does the soul have access to your memories when again you need a functioning brain to access them whilst you are alive?
I could probably carry on all morning generating contradictions and questions that show that the concept of the soul (and therefore afterlife) is nonsense.
Believers seem able to ignore such contradictions and believe anyway.
Seems to me there are two ways of acquiring faith if you don't have a religious background:
1. You look at the evidence and conclude that the probability is that there is some kind of spiritual element at work in the universe. Or, taking it to extremes, you look at the evidence and conclude that holy book 'x' is the word of god with precise instructions on how to live your life. This is the 'rational' approach.
2. You put yourself in a position to have 'spiritual' experiences - meditation, being in nature etc. This is the 'felt sense' approach,
1. You look at the evidence and conclude that the probability is that there is some kind of spiritual element at work in the universe. Or, taking it to extremes, you look at the evidence and conclude that holy book 'x' is the word of god with precise instructions on how to live your life. This is the 'rational' approach.
2. You put yourself in a position to have 'spiritual' experiences - meditation, being in nature etc. This is the 'felt sense' approach,
Slowboathome said:
Seems to me there are two ways of acquiring faith if you don't have a religious background:
1. You look at the evidence and conclude that the probability is that there is some kind of spiritual element at work in the universe. Or, taking it to extremes, you look at the evidence and conclude that holy book 'x' is the word of god with precise instructions on how to live your life. This is the 'rational' approach.
2. You put yourself in a position to have 'spiritual' experiences - meditation, being in nature etc. This is the 'felt sense' approach,
With respect to 1) what evidence are you referring to? 1. You look at the evidence and conclude that the probability is that there is some kind of spiritual element at work in the universe. Or, taking it to extremes, you look at the evidence and conclude that holy book 'x' is the word of god with precise instructions on how to live your life. This is the 'rational' approach.
2. You put yourself in a position to have 'spiritual' experiences - meditation, being in nature etc. This is the 'felt sense' approach,
Skeptisk said:
Slowboathome said:
Seems to me there are two ways of acquiring faith if you don't have a religious background:
1. You look at the evidence and conclude that the probability is that there is some kind of spiritual element at work in the universe. Or, taking it to extremes, you look at the evidence and conclude that holy book 'x' is the word of god with precise instructions on how to live your life. This is the 'rational' approach.
2. You put yourself in a position to have 'spiritual' experiences - meditation, being in nature etc. This is the 'felt sense' approach,
With respect to 1) what evidence are you referring to? 1. You look at the evidence and conclude that the probability is that there is some kind of spiritual element at work in the universe. Or, taking it to extremes, you look at the evidence and conclude that holy book 'x' is the word of god with precise instructions on how to live your life. This is the 'rational' approach.
2. You put yourself in a position to have 'spiritual' experiences - meditation, being in nature etc. This is the 'felt sense' approach,
Religion has slowed and even destroyed education and scientific research at times and appears to be doing so again in many parts of the world across multiple religions.
It's therefore something I can't get on with.
If the biggest threat to your little club is educated people and scientific research, you clearly know that you're preaching rubbish.
It's therefore something I can't get on with.
If the biggest threat to your little club is educated people and scientific research, you clearly know that you're preaching rubbish.
Jack.77 said:
Caddyshack said:
You might as well allow yourself a free choice and make up whatever you want to believe as that is pretty much what all religions are.
People tend to have their religion and believe it but look at other religions and not believe a word of it…it’s odd how we find other religions laughable and unbelievable.
I used to be believe until I really thought about it.
There is some truth in that but I am respectful though of others beliefs People tend to have their religion and believe it but look at other religions and not believe a word of it…it’s odd how we find other religions laughable and unbelievable.
I used to be believe until I really thought about it.
I kind of feel that people might be interested or benefit from if I was to set up a new age religion / belief sessions .it would either be seen locally as controversial or uplifting and what some people want
Too many people killed in wars around the world in the name of religion.
Caddyshack said:
It is important to respect others,
No, it's important to tolerate others. If my next door neighbour is convinced there are fairies at the bottom of his garden, I shouldn't be punching him in the face for his beliefs, or making his life unpleasant because of his beliefs. But I am under no obligation to respect him. I'm entitled to think he's crackers, and to politely keep my distance. Skeptisk said:
Slowboathome said:
Seems to me there are two ways of acquiring faith if you don't have a religious background:
1. You look at the evidence and conclude that the probability is that there is some kind of spiritual element at work in the universe. Or, taking it to extremes, you look at the evidence and conclude that holy book 'x' is the word of god with precise instructions on how to live your life. This is the 'rational' approach.
2. You put yourself in a position to have 'spiritual' experiences - meditation, being in nature etc. This is the 'felt sense' approach,
With respect to 1) what evidence are you referring to? 1. You look at the evidence and conclude that the probability is that there is some kind of spiritual element at work in the universe. Or, taking it to extremes, you look at the evidence and conclude that holy book 'x' is the word of god with precise instructions on how to live your life. This is the 'rational' approach.
2. You put yourself in a position to have 'spiritual' experiences - meditation, being in nature etc. This is the 'felt sense' approach,
I'm not particularly religious but I don't see any harm in it if used for comfort or a guide to trying to be a good person.
One of my closest friends is deeply religious, he was in the army before I knew him did several tours to either Iraq or Afghanistan not entirely sure. Then joined the police ending up in armed side of the Met. He very rarely talks about the things he has seen or done. But he has opened up once or twice after a few drinks it was quite eye opening. Kind of things that I imagine change you or make you question life.
I think he needs his religion to help him deal with those experiences and his decisions. He openly jokes about being part of the "god squad" so he's pretty self aware that its has own choice and no one else has to join him. That's a healthy level of faith in mind.
One of my closest friends is deeply religious, he was in the army before I knew him did several tours to either Iraq or Afghanistan not entirely sure. Then joined the police ending up in armed side of the Met. He very rarely talks about the things he has seen or done. But he has opened up once or twice after a few drinks it was quite eye opening. Kind of things that I imagine change you or make you question life.
I think he needs his religion to help him deal with those experiences and his decisions. He openly jokes about being part of the "god squad" so he's pretty self aware that its has own choice and no one else has to join him. That's a healthy level of faith in mind.
Slowboathome said:
Skeptisk said:
Slowboathome said:
Seems to me there are two ways of acquiring faith if you don't have a religious background:
1. You look at the evidence and conclude that the probability is that there is some kind of spiritual element at work in the universe. Or, taking it to extremes, you look at the evidence and conclude that holy book 'x' is the word of god with precise instructions on how to live your life. This is the 'rational' approach.
2. You put yourself in a position to have 'spiritual' experiences - meditation, being in nature etc. This is the 'felt sense' approach,
With respect to 1) what evidence are you referring to? 1. You look at the evidence and conclude that the probability is that there is some kind of spiritual element at work in the universe. Or, taking it to extremes, you look at the evidence and conclude that holy book 'x' is the word of god with precise instructions on how to live your life. This is the 'rational' approach.
2. You put yourself in a position to have 'spiritual' experiences - meditation, being in nature etc. This is the 'felt sense' approach,
Skeptisk said:
Slowboathome said:
Skeptisk said:
Slowboathome said:
Seems to me there are two ways of acquiring faith if you don't have a religious background:
1. You look at the evidence and conclude that the probability is that there is some kind of spiritual element at work in the universe. Or, taking it to extremes, you look at the evidence and conclude that holy book 'x' is the word of god with precise instructions on how to live your life. This is the 'rational' approach.
2. You put yourself in a position to have 'spiritual' experiences - meditation, being in nature etc. This is the 'felt sense' approach,
With respect to 1) what evidence are you referring to? 1. You look at the evidence and conclude that the probability is that there is some kind of spiritual element at work in the universe. Or, taking it to extremes, you look at the evidence and conclude that holy book 'x' is the word of god with precise instructions on how to live your life. This is the 'rational' approach.
2. You put yourself in a position to have 'spiritual' experiences - meditation, being in nature etc. This is the 'felt sense' approach,
Jack.77 said:
That’s fair enough.But what about after the passing, is that really the end
YesJack.77 said:
surely there is more as I have sensed it
No.The absolute audacity of humans to think that we are so damn important that there is some kind of fantastic afterlife where we get to carry on after our mortal engines give up is hilarious/baffling/bonkers. The flying spaghetti monster has just as much real world relevance and evidence.
You're born, you live, you die, your body rots/gets burnt. The world keeps on spinning and you become a tiny footnote at the bottom of a page. That's it. Enjoy it while it lasts.
Have a great day everyone. Each one you get is a bonus
Silvanus said:
Skeptisk said:
Slowboathome said:
Skeptisk said:
Slowboathome said:
Seems to me there are two ways of acquiring faith if you don't have a religious background:
1. You look at the evidence and conclude that the probability is that there is some kind of spiritual element at work in the universe. Or, taking it to extremes, you look at the evidence and conclude that holy book 'x' is the word of god with precise instructions on how to live your life. This is the 'rational' approach.
2. You put yourself in a position to have 'spiritual' experiences - meditation, being in nature etc. This is the 'felt sense' approach,
With respect to 1) what evidence are you referring to? 1. You look at the evidence and conclude that the probability is that there is some kind of spiritual element at work in the universe. Or, taking it to extremes, you look at the evidence and conclude that holy book 'x' is the word of god with precise instructions on how to live your life. This is the 'rational' approach.
2. You put yourself in a position to have 'spiritual' experiences - meditation, being in nature etc. This is the 'felt sense' approach,
The Rotrex Kid said:
No.
The absolute audacity of humans to think that we are so damn important that there is some kind of fantastic afterlife where we get to carry on after our mortal engines give up is hilarious/baffling/bonkers. The flying spaghetti monster has just as much real world relevance and evidence.
You're born, you live, you die, your body rots/gets burnt. The world keeps on spinning and you become a tiny footnote at the bottom of a page. That's it. Enjoy it while it lasts.
Have a great day everyone. Each one you get is a bonus
Agreed but do like the way Gervais put it on one of his stand up shows. Paraphrasing but you don't exist for 14 odd billion years, then you get to live for a blink of an eye in astronomical terms of if you're lucky maybe 70 years or so, then you die never to live again for the entire age of the universe. The absolute audacity of humans to think that we are so damn important that there is some kind of fantastic afterlife where we get to carry on after our mortal engines give up is hilarious/baffling/bonkers. The flying spaghetti monster has just as much real world relevance and evidence.
You're born, you live, you die, your body rots/gets burnt. The world keeps on spinning and you become a tiny footnote at the bottom of a page. That's it. Enjoy it while it lasts.
Have a great day everyone. Each one you get is a bonus
That any of us are even here in the first place to waste our limited time on this website is fantastical in itself.
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