How much Lighting energy does China use?

[deeps]

Thanks for the answers, but we still don't know for sure whether China uses more lighting energy than the UK?

[Menguin]

China uses more lighting energy than the UK - enough to take 40,000 cars off the road!

[sploosh]

........ gotta be a joke about chinese lanterns, but I can't think of one.

[Liokault]

maser_spyder said:

rocksteadyeddie said:

According to the CIA factbook

China 2.835 trillion kWh (2007)
UK 345.8 billion kWh (2007)

So not even close.

So that's, very approximatly,

5.7kWh p/p UK

2.8KWh p/p China

So, the Chinese use approximately half the amount of power per person that we do in the UK, going on these figures.

Makes us look pretty bad, I think.

Thats not the real point though is it? How would the numbers have looked 10 years ago? How will they look in 10 years time? China is in a race to be like the USA in terms of consumption.

And, no, we dont "need" the cheap products that China sells us. We buy because there cheap, not because of any real "need". 10-20 years time I predict we will be looking to Africa to give us cheap man power and products as China prices itself out and trade moves on.

[maser_spyder]

Liokault said:

maser_spyder said:

rocksteadyeddie said:

According to the CIA factbook

China 2.835 trillion kWh (2007)
UK 345.8 billion kWh (2007)

So not even close.

So that's, very approximatly,

5.7kWh p/p UK

2.8KWh p/p China

So, the Chinese use approximately half the amount of power per person that we do in the UK, going on these figures.

Makes us look pretty bad, I think.

Thats not the real point though is it? How would the numbers have looked 10 years ago? How will they look in 10 years time? China is in a race to be like the USA in terms of consumption.

And, no, we dont "need" the cheap products that China sells us. We buy because there cheap, not because of any real "need". 10-20 years time I predict we will be looking to Africa to give us cheap man power and products as China prices itself out and trade moves on.

So what are you going to do? Stop other countries becoming industrial, and ultimately more wealthy?

You'll have a heck of a job convincing a billion chinese people they'd be better off standing in a paddy field holding a rope tethered to a bullock, rather than sitting in a nice air-conditioned flat watching TV.

Chinese culture is so completely different to the US, they'll never be the high energy consumers that Americans are. Energy is relatively very expensive in China, where it's relatively very cheap in the US, that makes a huge difference to consumption.

You're absolutely right we'll be moving on to other countries to provide us with cheap goods in a few year's time. But how are you going to ask them to do it without letting them use more energy either?

Production uses energy, so whoever is producing a lot of 'stuff', is going to use a lot of energy. It's China at the moment, but will be somebody else in future.

Basically, China isn't the big bad guy using lots of energy here, they're actually relatively careful in their consumption. If you want to see what wasting resources is like, just look over the water to America...

[Jimbeaux]

maser_spyder said:

Liokault said:

maser_spyder said:

rocksteadyeddie said:

According to the CIA factbook

China 2.835 trillion kWh (2007)
UK 345.8 billion kWh (2007)

So not even close.

So that's, very approximatly,

5.7kWh p/p UK

2.8KWh p/p China

So, the Chinese use approximately half the amount of power per person that we do in the UK, going on these figures.

Makes us look pretty bad, I think.

Thats not the real point though is it? How would the numbers have looked 10 years ago? How will they look in 10 years time? China is in a race to be like the USA in terms of consumption.

And, no, we dont "need" the cheap products that China sells us. We buy because there cheap, not because of any real "need". 10-20 years time I predict we will be looking to Africa to give us cheap man power and products as China prices itself out and trade moves on.

So what are you going to do? Stop other countries becoming industrial, and ultimately more wealthy?

You'll have a heck of a job convincing a billion chinese people they'd be better off standing in a paddy field holding a rope tethered to a bullock, rather than sitting in a nice air-conditioned flat watching TV.

Chinese culture is so completely different to the US, they'll never be the high energy consumers that Americans are. Energy is relatively very expensive in China, where it's relatively very cheap in the US, that makes a huge difference to consumption.

You're absolutely right we'll be moving on to other countries to provide us with cheap goods in a few year's time. But how are you going to ask them to do it without letting them use more energy either?

Production uses energy, so whoever is producing a lot of 'stuff', is going to use a lot of energy. It's China at the moment, but will be somebody else in future.

Basically, China isn't the big bad guy using lots of energy here, they're actually relatively careful in their consumption. If you want to see what wasting resources is like, just look over the water to America...

That is three times that you say the U.S. is the major energy waster. I would agree we are the largest energy user. However, is that legitimate consumption or waste? You say "waste". Can you show evidence of that please.

[maser_spyder]

Jimbeaux said:

maser_spyder said:

Liokault said:

maser_spyder said:

rocksteadyeddie said:

According to the CIA factbook

China 2.835 trillion kWh (2007)
UK 345.8 billion kWh (2007)

So not even close.

So that's, very approximatly,

5.7kWh p/p UK

2.8KWh p/p China

So, the Chinese use approximately half the amount of power per person that we do in the UK, going on these figures.

Makes us look pretty bad, I think.

Thats not the real point though is it? How would the numbers have looked 10 years ago? How will they look in 10 years time? China is in a race to be like the USA in terms of consumption.

And, no, we dont "need" the cheap products that China sells us. We buy because there cheap, not because of any real "need". 10-20 years time I predict we will be looking to Africa to give us cheap man power and products as China prices itself out and trade moves on.

So what are you going to do? Stop other countries becoming industrial, and ultimately more wealthy?

You'll have a heck of a job convincing a billion chinese people they'd be better off standing in a paddy field holding a rope tethered to a bullock, rather than sitting in a nice air-conditioned flat watching TV.

Chinese culture is so completely different to the US, they'll never be the high energy consumers that Americans are. Energy is relatively very expensive in China, where it's relatively very cheap in the US, that makes a huge difference to consumption.

You're absolutely right we'll be moving on to other countries to provide us with cheap goods in a few year's time. But how are you going to ask them to do it without letting them use more energy either?

Production uses energy, so whoever is producing a lot of 'stuff', is going to use a lot of energy. It's China at the moment, but will be somebody else in future.

Basically, China isn't the big bad guy using lots of energy here, they're actually relatively careful in their consumption. If you want to see what wasting resources is like, just look over the water to America...

That is three times that you say the U.S. is the major energy waster. I would agree we are the largest energy user. However, is that legitimate consumption or waste? You say "waste". Can you show evidence of that please.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/World_energy_resources_and_consumption

wiki said:

Energy consumption is loosely correlated with gross national product, but there is a large difference even between the most highly developed countries, such as Japan and Germany with 6 kW per person and United States with 11.4 kW per person.

(China's) population of 1.3 billion people (20% of the world population) is consuming energy at a rate of 1.6 kW per person.

The average Chinese person uses approximate 1/7 of the energy of an American.

If you're not wasting it, what the heck are you doing? Germany and Japan manage to be at least as productive as the US, yet use half the energy. China is actually not actually that productive, but uses only 1/7 of the energy of an American to achieve it.

The numbers from the US consumption stats are not pretty reading!

[Jimbeaux]

maser_spyder said:

Jimbeaux said:

maser_spyder said:

Liokault said:

maser_spyder said:

rocksteadyeddie said:

According to the CIA factbook

China 2.835 trillion kWh (2007)
UK 345.8 billion kWh (2007)

So not even close.

So that's, very approximatly,

5.7kWh p/p UK

2.8KWh p/p China

So, the Chinese use approximately half the amount of power per person that we do in the UK, going on these figures.

Makes us look pretty bad, I think.

Thats not the real point though is it? How would the numbers have looked 10 years ago? How will they look in 10 years time? China is in a race to be like the USA in terms of consumption.

And, no, we dont "need" the cheap products that China sells us. We buy because there cheap, not because of any real "need". 10-20 years time I predict we will be looking to Africa to give us cheap man power and products as China prices itself out and trade moves on.

So what are you going to do? Stop other countries becoming industrial, and ultimately more wealthy?

You'll have a heck of a job convincing a billion chinese people they'd be better off standing in a paddy field holding a rope tethered to a bullock, rather than sitting in a nice air-conditioned flat watching TV.

Chinese culture is so completely different to the US, they'll never be the high energy consumers that Americans are. Energy is relatively very expensive in China, where it's relatively very cheap in the US, that makes a huge difference to consumption.

You're absolutely right we'll be moving on to other countries to provide us with cheap goods in a few year's time. But how are you going to ask them to do it without letting them use more energy either?

Production uses energy, so whoever is producing a lot of 'stuff', is going to use a lot of energy. It's China at the moment, but will be somebody else in future.

Basically, China isn't the big bad guy using lots of energy here, they're actually relatively careful in their consumption. If you want to see what wasting resources is like, just look over the water to America...

That is three times that you say the U.S. is the major energy waster. I would agree we are the largest energy user. However, is that legitimate consumption or waste? You say "waste". Can you show evidence of that please.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/World_energy_resources_and_consumption

wiki said:

Energy consumption is loosely correlated with gross national product, but there is a large difference even between the most highly developed countries, such as Japan and Germany with 6 kW per person and United States with 11.4 kW per person.

(China's) population of 1.3 billion people (20% of the world population) is consuming energy at a rate of 1.6 kW per person.

The average Chinese person uses approximate 1/7 of the energy of an American.

If you're not wasting it, what the heck are you doing? Germany and Japan manage to be at least as productive as the US, yet use half the energy. China is actually not actually that productive, but uses only 1/7 of the energy of an American to achieve it.

The numbers from the US consumption stats are not pretty reading!

First, one must take into account that many Chinese have little or no electricity at all or have it severly rationed by the central government. If the government rations it, I suppose keeping its use in check is very understandable. I am speaking of all of China, not just the major cities most weterners visit. You just answered much of your own question by stating that "China is not very productive and uses less lectricity". That stands to reason does it not? When they are more productive, they will use more.
Next, the vast majority of our electrical power stations are fueled by either coal, natural gas, hydro-means or other domestic sources. Very little electricity is generated by non-domestic fuel; therefore, is really is no skin off your nose IMO.
I thank you for your figures, however, I am not convinced as to their "spin" or your apparent bias on certain energy consumers.

Edited by Jimbeaux on Monday 16th November 02:40

[mybrainhurts]

deevlash said:

Bet those Aussies keep bumping into things...

[Jimbeaux]

mybrainhurts said:

deevlash said:

Bet those Aussies keep bumping into things...

Maybe they are just using black lights.

[JamesM]

Or dark bulbs to counteract how bright it is there.