Work - enjoyment vs financial compensation
Discussion
I struggle with trying to be in a job I love and feel is actually interesting, fun and positive and earning lots of money so I can do those fun/intersting things in my spare time.
I currently work in conservation and a big part of me always wants to stay working in conservation. But...it pays almost nothing. Having been to a couple of PH meets, most notably the recent one at Cheddar Gorge, (depressingly) there were probably only 20-30 cars there that I could realistically expect to own on my current pay scale. The other 200 odd cars are just not going to be affordable any time soon unless I win the lottery.
Now I've done my degree and MSc and am fairly confident I could get a more regular job and work my way up to decent money within 5-10 years but I'd miss being outdoors, doing varied interesting things and working with likeminded people who actually care about what they do.
I am a bit jealous of people in their early 20's driving TVRs and Nobles etc but then it is balanced by the job satisfaction. Having said that if someone gave me a very well paid 9-5(ish) job now that was permanent and doable I'd take it as I'd then have far more money (and likely more holiday etc) to spend on my hobbies/passions - wildlife/cars etc.
I think it's going to be a bit of an ongoing mental struggle for me all my life as fast/sporty cars really don't fit with the kind of career I see myself having
I currently work in conservation and a big part of me always wants to stay working in conservation. But...it pays almost nothing. Having been to a couple of PH meets, most notably the recent one at Cheddar Gorge, (depressingly) there were probably only 20-30 cars there that I could realistically expect to own on my current pay scale. The other 200 odd cars are just not going to be affordable any time soon unless I win the lottery.
Now I've done my degree and MSc and am fairly confident I could get a more regular job and work my way up to decent money within 5-10 years but I'd miss being outdoors, doing varied interesting things and working with likeminded people who actually care about what they do.
I am a bit jealous of people in their early 20's driving TVRs and Nobles etc but then it is balanced by the job satisfaction. Having said that if someone gave me a very well paid 9-5(ish) job now that was permanent and doable I'd take it as I'd then have far more money (and likely more holiday etc) to spend on my hobbies/passions - wildlife/cars etc.
I think it's going to be a bit of an ongoing mental struggle for me all my life as fast/sporty cars really don't fit with the kind of career I see myself having
In my experience, everyone gets sick of the daily grind, and everyone would rather be doing something else on many/most days than going to work. Of course you do it for the money. If you get paid for a job you would happily do for free, then you are a lucky man.
But the job making you miserable is not the same as being miserable and the job not helping. Everyone goes through lulls, whether for a day, a month or a year, where they are down but come up again. It sounds like he might be in one of those ruts. Hgaving a good job/house/family and all the outward trappings of normal success while still feeling unfulfilled is a perfectly normal condition.
If for some reason a job is really making you miserable then it's time to change. You spend a long time at work, and if you don't in some sense enjoy and care about the work you are doing, then you, those around you, and the quality of your work will all suffer, hence eventually the money will stop too. But be sure it is the job that is making you miserable before throwing in a good job, and finding that this wasn't the problem at all.
My advice would be to make a plan to get out and do something else. Make the most of the money while it lasts, and set a goal to do something he will enjoy more. Whatever time frame he chooses working towards a goal will be much more rewarding than being on a seemingly endless treadmill of earning lots, spending lots and watching your life slip away day after miserable day in a job you don't like.
5 years of earning decent money and building up home equity in the UK should be enough to set you up doing almost anything, anywhere in the world (unless he wants to start an airline or a bank) so figure out where you want to be, and more importantly what you want to be doing, work out what needs to happen for that to be a reality, and then do it. My bet is the job will seem infinitely better if it is a means to an end, rather than an end in itself.
But the job making you miserable is not the same as being miserable and the job not helping. Everyone goes through lulls, whether for a day, a month or a year, where they are down but come up again. It sounds like he might be in one of those ruts. Hgaving a good job/house/family and all the outward trappings of normal success while still feeling unfulfilled is a perfectly normal condition.
If for some reason a job is really making you miserable then it's time to change. You spend a long time at work, and if you don't in some sense enjoy and care about the work you are doing, then you, those around you, and the quality of your work will all suffer, hence eventually the money will stop too. But be sure it is the job that is making you miserable before throwing in a good job, and finding that this wasn't the problem at all.
My advice would be to make a plan to get out and do something else. Make the most of the money while it lasts, and set a goal to do something he will enjoy more. Whatever time frame he chooses working towards a goal will be much more rewarding than being on a seemingly endless treadmill of earning lots, spending lots and watching your life slip away day after miserable day in a job you don't like.
5 years of earning decent money and building up home equity in the UK should be enough to set you up doing almost anything, anywhere in the world (unless he wants to start an airline or a bank) so figure out where you want to be, and more importantly what you want to be doing, work out what needs to happen for that to be a reality, and then do it. My bet is the job will seem infinitely better if it is a means to an end, rather than an end in itself.
I'm going into my 3rd year of an engineering degree, while working part-time as a Barista. I've worked as a Barista for 2 and a half years now and honestly have no drive for working in engineering anymore because of it, despite the fact that I am probably on one of the best engineering courses in the country in terms of "fun". If I can live comfortably on a job that I love, why would I take a job that I love less just to earn a bit more money? Would you honestly choose being miserable over being happy for a pound or two per hour?
mchammer89 said:
I'm going into my 3rd year of an engineering degree, while working part-time as a Barista. I've worked as a Barista for 2 and a half years now and honestly have no drive for working in engineering anymore because of it, despite the fact that I am probably on one of the best engineering courses in the country in terms of "fun". If I can live comfortably on a job that I love, why would I take a job that I love less just to earn a bit more money? Would you honestly choose being miserable over being happy for a pound or two per hour?
Blimey. The recession has bitten deep if Chartered Engineers are only making a pound or two an hour more than clearing tables in a coffee shop.G-Rich said:
with a family it's about providing, not being selfish.
Which is fine, but you also need some personal payback. I'm in the same position as the OPs friend, earn several multiples of national average but it all goes on the house and family and very little on me and I don't get any time to persue my own hobbies and interests. Yet. But kids doing great at school and happy and mainly healthy, so given other thread about little Oliver, I guess it ain't too bad!Jasandjules said:
G-Rich said:
with a family it's about providing, not being selfish.
Which is fine until the divorce comes through because you never saw your family as you were at work. The trouble is it can easily become a cycle where you come home late and stressed, never see your family and become a stranger in your home. Your family get used to you not being around and you end up working even harder as home life becomes poor and work pressure increases.
If you spend all your time at work and come home stressed and don't see your kids much i'm not sure how that's providing. It might be bringing in money but there's much more to being a spouse/parent/partner than making as much cash as possible.
Doing a job you hate is the definition of insanity!
I quit my job in the City two years ago. It made me so stressed I was ill through it, developed a tidy drink problem as well.
I'm now a househusband, and although it has it's stressy moments, it's much more rewarding, wouldn't swap the toddlers group for the office anyday.
Money is tight, but it does give you a sense of importance in things, we used to not think twice about spending it like water, now we slow cook cheap joins of meat and drive two snotters. ( However I have managed to keep the Z3MC, albeit SORNed and in the garage!)
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Xu8OZV25Ego
HTH
I quit my job in the City two years ago. It made me so stressed I was ill through it, developed a tidy drink problem as well.
I'm now a househusband, and although it has it's stressy moments, it's much more rewarding, wouldn't swap the toddlers group for the office anyday.
Money is tight, but it does give you a sense of importance in things, we used to not think twice about spending it like water, now we slow cook cheap joins of meat and drive two snotters. ( However I have managed to keep the Z3MC, albeit SORNed and in the garage!)
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Xu8OZV25Ego
HTH
V8mate said:
mchammer89 said:
I'm going into my 3rd year of an engineering degree, while working part-time as a Barista. I've worked as a Barista for 2 and a half years now and honestly have no drive for working in engineering anymore because of it, despite the fact that I am probably on one of the best engineering courses in the country in terms of "fun". If I can live comfortably on a job that I love, why would I take a job that I love less just to earn a bit more money? Would you honestly choose being miserable over being happy for a pound or two per hour?
Blimey. The recession has bitten deep if Chartered Engineers are only making a pound or two an hour more than clearing tables in a coffee shop.I consider the following when thinking about leaving or moving to a new job.
1) Am I enjoying the hours I spend in work / travelling to work as much as I can (factors will include things like is the work technically interesting, are the people pleasant to work with, do I need to commute on the underground in the rush hour)?
2) Am I enjoying the hours out of work as much as I can (factors include does the job pay enough that I can provide for my family without worrying about money, are the hours sensible that I can spend time with them and flexible in the case of an emergency and can I spend time on hobbies)?
3) Are the prospects for both of these for the future positive (e.g. is the company profitable and hence not likely to make me redundant, does it provide training, are there prospects for pay rises in future, are my skills transferrable to another employer should the need arise)?
Everyone will have a different idea about how to balance these which will depend on their family status and how far advanced they are in their career.
1) Am I enjoying the hours I spend in work / travelling to work as much as I can (factors will include things like is the work technically interesting, are the people pleasant to work with, do I need to commute on the underground in the rush hour)?
2) Am I enjoying the hours out of work as much as I can (factors include does the job pay enough that I can provide for my family without worrying about money, are the hours sensible that I can spend time with them and flexible in the case of an emergency and can I spend time on hobbies)?
3) Are the prospects for both of these for the future positive (e.g. is the company profitable and hence not likely to make me redundant, does it provide training, are there prospects for pay rises in future, are my skills transferrable to another employer should the need arise)?
Everyone will have a different idea about how to balance these which will depend on their family status and how far advanced they are in their career.
My wife is one of those type of person who needs to work to fulfil her self worth, if she isn't being challenged by her job she gets bored then depressed by her situation. If you are like that, and I work with more than a few people who are, then work will nearly always come first as it is very hard to switch off.
I can take or leave work, it isn't what defines me, what I do outside of work defines me. I work long hours for good money but it has always been with the goal of retiring in my early fifties. I've stacked up my pension with as much of the extra as I can and I should have my mortgage paid off by the time I'm forty (I'm thirty five in a few weeks). Once the mortgage is paid off we can exist on just the wife's wages without a major drop in lifestyle, I can then switch to freelance and pick and choose when and who I want to work for.
So do you work to live or live to work?
I can take or leave work, it isn't what defines me, what I do outside of work defines me. I work long hours for good money but it has always been with the goal of retiring in my early fifties. I've stacked up my pension with as much of the extra as I can and I should have my mortgage paid off by the time I'm forty (I'm thirty five in a few weeks). Once the mortgage is paid off we can exist on just the wife's wages without a major drop in lifestyle, I can then switch to freelance and pick and choose when and who I want to work for.
So do you work to live or live to work?
Landlord said:
miniman said:
if I could maintain my quality of life running a pub or a garage
Serious question: What do you term to be "your quality of life"?In "lifestyle" terms the pub thing is the old "cheery landlord being sociable" vision. Having worked in pubs (the start at 7am, let the cleaners in, bottle up, clean the lines, open up, work through until closing, do the paperwork, do the accounts version) I know this is only possible if someone else does the hard work for you. Hence for me it would need a lottery win so is really a silly pipedream.
If your job provides you with enough money to live on plus a little extra each month and you enjoy it, then I'd say hang onto it for dear life.
I left a job where I was on little money, but got on well with everyone and was happy, into an IT management job because thats what I was qualified to do and could make most money at, 3 years later I realise taking this job is the biggest mistake I've ever made.
I left a job where I was on little money, but got on well with everyone and was happy, into an IT management job because thats what I was qualified to do and could make most money at, 3 years later I realise taking this job is the biggest mistake I've ever made.
patmahe said:
3 years later I realise taking this job is the biggest mistake I've ever made.
Hmmmmm rings a bell. In my defence, I always realised that Ron Dennis or Malcolm Wilson were never going to spot me hooning and say "Hold on, this guy should be driving for us you know" so instead, I thought i would just work hard enough to pay to race my own car, do track days etc.... not....quite.....there.....yet...... I love cars and bikes, have done for as long as I could crawl (according to the baby photos) and always will. Oh and if I win the lottery, I'll have one of these in Lotus colours please. http://www.f1-67.com/V8mate said:
mchammer89 said:
I'm going into my 3rd year of an engineering degree, while working part-time as a Barista. I've worked as a Barista for 2 and a half years now and honestly have no drive for working in engineering anymore because of it, despite the fact that I am probably on one of the best engineering courses in the country in terms of "fun". If I can live comfortably on a job that I love, why would I take a job that I love less just to earn a bit more money? Would you honestly choose being miserable over being happy for a pound or two per hour?
Blimey. The recession has bitten deep if Chartered Engineers are only making a pound or two an hour more than clearing tables in a coffee shop.mchammer89 said:
I'm going into my 3rd year of an engineering degree, while working part-time as a Barista. I've worked as a Barista for 2 and a half years now and honestly have no drive for working in engineering anymore because of it, despite the fact that I am probably on one of the best engineering courses in the country in terms of "fun". If I can live comfortably on a job that I love, why would I take a job that I love less just to earn a bit more money? Would you honestly choose being miserable over being happy for a pound or two per hour?
Doesn't being a barista pay better than Engineering?NoelWatson said:
mchammer89 said:
I'm going into my 3rd year of an engineering degree, while working part-time as a Barista. I've worked as a Barista for 2 and a half years now and honestly have no drive for working in engineering anymore because of it, despite the fact that I am probably on one of the best engineering courses in the country in terms of "fun". If I can live comfortably on a job that I love, why would I take a job that I love less just to earn a bit more money? Would you honestly choose being miserable over being happy for a pound or two per hour?
Doesn't being a barista pay better than Engineering?
I have always put enjoyment on the job first, which probably explains why I've had so many of them 
However I fully admit I am a sufferer of the 'grass is always greener' syndrome, so although I enjoy the jobs I still think I can have more money and fun at another place.
Current job really is pretty good, still wouldn't stop me leaving tomorrow if I found another one I liked the look of. Strange really.
However I fully admit I am a sufferer of the 'grass is always greener' syndrome, so although I enjoy the jobs I still think I can have more money and fun at another place.
Current job really is pretty good, still wouldn't stop me leaving tomorrow if I found another one I liked the look of. Strange really.
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