Religion/beliefs
Discussion
Skeptisk said:
The word god is pretty much meaningless as it means something different to each person. If you ask a religious person to describe their god it will just be a (different) list of qualities but nothing concrete. I have heard people say in all seriousness that “god is love”. It is just meaningless words. How would you disprove the existence of something with no concrete qualities? Baffles me.
God is just a mnemonic for "don't know" or maybe "don't know, don't want to know", and has existed throughout human history. The difference is we now have far fewer gods than before. Does that coincide with improvements in education and scientific knowledge, or just the inevitable result of religious cannibalism over time.bmwmike said:
The Rotrex Kid said:
No.
The absolute audacity of humans to think that we are so damn important that there is some kind of fantastic afterlife where we get to carry on after our mortal engines give up is hilarious/baffling/bonkers. The flying spaghetti monster has just as much real world relevance and evidence.
You're born, you live, you die, your body rots/gets burnt. The world keeps on spinning and you become a tiny footnote at the bottom of a page. That's it. Enjoy it while it lasts.
Have a great day everyone. Each one you get is a bonus
Agreed but do like the way Gervais put it on one of his stand up shows. Paraphrasing but you don't exist for 14 odd billion years, then you get to live for a blink of an eye in astronomical terms of if you're lucky maybe 70 years or so, then you die never to live again for the entire age of the universe. The absolute audacity of humans to think that we are so damn important that there is some kind of fantastic afterlife where we get to carry on after our mortal engines give up is hilarious/baffling/bonkers. The flying spaghetti monster has just as much real world relevance and evidence.
You're born, you live, you die, your body rots/gets burnt. The world keeps on spinning and you become a tiny footnote at the bottom of a page. That's it. Enjoy it while it lasts.
Have a great day everyone. Each one you get is a bonus
That any of us are even here in the first place to waste our limited time on this website is fantastical in itself.
TwigtheWonderkid said:
Caddyshack said:
It is important to respect others,
No, it's important to tolerate others. If my next door neighbour is convinced there are fairies at the bottom of his garden, I shouldn't be punching him in the face for his beliefs, or making his life unpleasant because of his beliefs. But I am under no obligation to respect him. I'm entitled to think he's crackers, and to politely keep my distance. I respect peoples personal views on religion but personally I find the whole thing laughable at best.
The strangest thing for me was being at school and attending a science class, then having at RE class after. Which one were you supposed to believe?! God made the universe or was it science and the big bang.
As we evolve as a race I hope that religion will eventually burn out. To me personally it was something used to control people in the middle ages with the thought of going to 'hell' for doing something wrong, which of course could be offset with a cash donation! At best its now a social club for likeminded people, maybe giving people who feel they need it a moral compass?
To me its just another way that we are divided as a race, worst of all I see the violence that Islam causes the world over under the guise of 'the religion of peace'.
What I find the most fascinating is that don't believers wonder who's sky fairy is real? After all surely there can be only one!
The strangest thing for me was being at school and attending a science class, then having at RE class after. Which one were you supposed to believe?! God made the universe or was it science and the big bang.
As we evolve as a race I hope that religion will eventually burn out. To me personally it was something used to control people in the middle ages with the thought of going to 'hell' for doing something wrong, which of course could be offset with a cash donation! At best its now a social club for likeminded people, maybe giving people who feel they need it a moral compass?
To me its just another way that we are divided as a race, worst of all I see the violence that Islam causes the world over under the guise of 'the religion of peace'.
What I find the most fascinating is that don't believers wonder who's sky fairy is real? After all surely there can be only one!
Skeptisk said:
Slowboathome said:
Skeptisk said:
Slowboathome said:
Seems to me there are two ways of acquiring faith if you don't have a religious background:
1. You look at the evidence and conclude that the probability is that there is some kind of spiritual element at work in the universe. Or, taking it to extremes, you look at the evidence and conclude that holy book 'x' is the word of god with precise instructions on how to live your life. This is the 'rational' approach.
2. You put yourself in a position to have 'spiritual' experiences - meditation, being in nature etc. This is the 'felt sense' approach,
With respect to 1) what evidence are you referring to? 1. You look at the evidence and conclude that the probability is that there is some kind of spiritual element at work in the universe. Or, taking it to extremes, you look at the evidence and conclude that holy book 'x' is the word of god with precise instructions on how to live your life. This is the 'rational' approach.
2. You put yourself in a position to have 'spiritual' experiences - meditation, being in nature etc. This is the 'felt sense' approach,
But you can't. He's dead.
Kawasicki said:
There are plenty of modern religions available, many have a scientific bent, so it’s easier to believe.
https://churchofclimatechange.org/
Genuinely not sure if I think this kind of thing is better or worse than the established ones. https://churchofclimatechange.org/
119 said:
People can believe in whatever they like as long as it isn’t forced down my throat.
Precisely. Believe what you want as long as you're not forcing it on others, and also as long as people don't use it as a point to be crappy to each other (fat chance I know). Otherwise, if faith is what gets you through your finite time in this world and brings you joy, go for it.
Ever looked at Humanism?
For many their belief system of themselves & others is a good fit without the “Sky Fairy”
However I hade found in my experience as they increase in number & strength their emergence as a new cult is leading them to be less tolerant to those who don’t subscribe to their views. “Respect for all” sometimes lacking.
Not sure how many folk picking humanist celebrants do so out or true humanist beliefs or just because it’s a non religious “option”
For many their belief system of themselves & others is a good fit without the “Sky Fairy”
However I hade found in my experience as they increase in number & strength their emergence as a new cult is leading them to be less tolerant to those who don’t subscribe to their views. “Respect for all” sometimes lacking.
Not sure how many folk picking humanist celebrants do so out or true humanist beliefs or just because it’s a non religious “option”
There is no god.
Anyone who believes there is demonstrates they are unable to think in a critical and analytical manner.
If there was an omnipresent, omniscient, and omnipotent being (which in itself is a ridiculous concept), they must truly be a cruel, spiteful, and fickle creature to allow what they do, or we are simply of no interest to them.
Live a good life; be kind, leave the world a better place and leave others with regard and fond feelings towards you. You don't need a religion, a church, or a dogma to tell you to do that.
Anyone who believes there is demonstrates they are unable to think in a critical and analytical manner.
If there was an omnipresent, omniscient, and omnipotent being (which in itself is a ridiculous concept), they must truly be a cruel, spiteful, and fickle creature to allow what they do, or we are simply of no interest to them.
Live a good life; be kind, leave the world a better place and leave others with regard and fond feelings towards you. You don't need a religion, a church, or a dogma to tell you to do that.
Stephen Fry nails it too https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-suvkwNYSQo
Love Gay Byrne's reactions.
Love Gay Byrne's reactions.
Edited by bmwmike on Thursday 19th October 12:33
dirky dirk said:
ive no time for it,
i cant think of guide book from 3500 years ago i refer to, i also think somuch got lost in translation and is all irrelevenay,
best mind set is if youcan help you should dont be a nob,
but each to their own
I wonder how many of the things that would be morally wrong to us would not be seen that way if we did not have religions. I totally agree with "don't be a nob"i cant think of guide book from 3500 years ago i refer to, i also think somuch got lost in translation and is all irrelevenay,
best mind set is if youcan help you should dont be a nob,
but each to their own
Maybe there is no real right or wrong - maybe we could just steal what we want or kill the annoying neighbour?
As an accountant, I have come across quite a lot of religious individuals running businesses. Luckily our bad debts are relatively few, but many of those debts related to religious characters 'doing a runner'. No apology, nothing. After years of 'God blessing' me every time I spoke to them.
Their propensity to bend the rules is also higher than average. Not the biggest dataset admittedly, but I think valid.
Their propensity to bend the rules is also higher than average. Not the biggest dataset admittedly, but I think valid.
Caddyshack said:
dirky dirk said:
ive no time for it,
i cant think of guide book from 3500 years ago i refer to, i also think somuch got lost in translation and is all irrelevenay,
best mind set is if youcan help you should dont be a nob,
but each to their own
I wonder how many of the things that would be morally wrong to us would not be seen that way if we did not have religions. I totally agree with "don't be a nob"i cant think of guide book from 3500 years ago i refer to, i also think somuch got lost in translation and is all irrelevenay,
best mind set is if youcan help you should dont be a nob,
but each to their own
Maybe there is no real right or wrong - maybe we could just steal what we want or kill the annoying neighbour?
MaxFromage said:
As an accountant, I have come across quite a lot of religious individuals running businesses. Luckily our bad debts are relatively few, but many of those debts related to religious characters 'doing a runner'. No apology, nothing. After years of 'God blessing' me every time I spoke to them.
Their propensity to bend the rules is also higher than average. Not the biggest dataset admittedly, but I think valid.
"Thou shalt not get caught..."Their propensity to bend the rules is also higher than average. Not the biggest dataset admittedly, but I think valid.
Organised religion is about power, control, and money. Mostly started out as "cults", or breakaway factions because the existing "cult" was heading in the "wrong" direction.
Ego/power trip for the founder and original members, blossoming into a money-making or labour-avoiding scam for the subsequent leaders.
A means of avoiding personal responsibility for the followers.
A personal belief in an unknowable "greater power" I can accept.
Organised religion - no way.
For context, I'm agnostic, have been for 40+ years. There might be something out there, there might not. I have no idea, but I won't reject it out of hand.
I was raised a jehova's witness. A cult, if ever there was one. Basically a very rich publishing house, run by hypocrites, conning the gullible into "doing god's work" (flogging books) and taking a cut of their wages.
Ego/power trip for the founder and original members, blossoming into a money-making or labour-avoiding scam for the subsequent leaders.
A means of avoiding personal responsibility for the followers.
A personal belief in an unknowable "greater power" I can accept.
Organised religion - no way.
For context, I'm agnostic, have been for 40+ years. There might be something out there, there might not. I have no idea, but I won't reject it out of hand.
I was raised a jehova's witness. A cult, if ever there was one. Basically a very rich publishing house, run by hypocrites, conning the gullible into "doing god's work" (flogging books) and taking a cut of their wages.
Caddyshack said:
I wonder how many of the things that would be morally wrong to us would not be seen that way if we did not have religions. I totally agree with "don't be a nob"
Maybe there is no real right or wrong - maybe we could just steal what we want or kill the annoying neighbour?
The correlation between religious people, and what we would characterise as moral behaviour, is tenuous at best.Maybe there is no real right or wrong - maybe we could just steal what we want or kill the annoying neighbour?
I would however posit the opposite: much (not all) of the worst behaviour ever recorded in history was justified at the time by reference to religion.
Four Litre said:
The strangest thing for me was being at school and attending a science class, then having at RE class after. Which one were you supposed to believe?! God made the universe or was it science and the big bang.
Just this week my ten year old was taught about the Big Bang Theory. In an RE lesson.
And pitched as “The Humanist Creation Story”.
I’m quite looking forward to parents’ evening next week and asking why a scientific theory is being taught in the context of religion. While I have no belief myself, I’ve no particular axe to grind against any religion but I have a problem when it’s taught to school children as an equal to actual science.
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