Self-service checkouts and "use your own bag"

[Mont Blanc]

pocketspring said:

The whole barrier thing is so the shops don't have to pay out for extra security personnel. It also takes away any confrontation with security as well. Stores hate paying for the necessary evil of manned guarding hence why most middle management treat them like scum.
Milkround should have just stood there until the security gave him a direction eg please come with me to managers office etc. Then ask for the police to come so they can search. Nothing found? Off to the civil courts for a nice claim of around £2k.

I agree with all of that, especially with the bit in bold. As I suggested in my post above, the way to deal with it was passive aggressive - Politely tell the guard you are happy to stand right there and wait until the police arrive. Inform the guard he has no legal right to search you, but are more than happy for the police to do so when they arrive.

Ask to speak to the duty manager or store manger.

If the guard then does something stupid like physically tackles you or snatches you bag off you, just let him, and then proceed straight to your solicitors office for a nice payout.

I do feel sorry for Milkround. I applaud anyone that wishes to stand up for their rights and the letter of the law, but he just went about it in a deranged fashion in the heat of the moment.

[Jeremy-75qq8]

Automated checkout to me seem to follow when in a hole stop digging.

The things are flawed. The to try and get round the obvious flaws they put in more flawed processes. Picture scans , random checks , gates to exit.

Just give us a cashier.

[Cotty]

TriumphStag3.0V8 said:

What is wrong with some people?

Some people just like to watch the world burn

[Cold]

I like it that the scales can detect the weight of what it perceives to be an errant plastic carrier bag and will complain loudly about it being unexpected, but scan a lightweight item such as a sauce packet and it has no idea that the item has been bagged.

[Hol]

dontlookdown said:

Hol said:

I prefer to blame the shoplifters for such changes, as they are the cause.

The same goes with other excessive companies, like train operators, parking companies and debt collectors. If not for their resident low life’s, such measures wouldn’t be required.

But that's only partly true. Shoplifters are the proximate cause, yes, but supermarkets have knowingly created an environment where it is now much easier for shoplifters to shoplift, all in the name of saving money (savings which I bet are nothing like as large as they would like us to think). Did they really believe that criminals would just conveniently stop nicking stuff?

Their response has been equally stupid - to make the lives of their honest customers (the vast majority) a little worse every time they shop, in a vain effort to 'solve' a problem that is entirely of their own making.

So to clarify your main point it’s their fault for making it too easy for shoplifters??

The rest just sounds like sour grapes.

[Hol]

Cotty said:

gotoPzero said:

My local tesco installed these sort of scissor barriers made of very thick Perspex.

Their latest thing is to put all the alcohol in these steel mesh bags. Even £4 bottle of wine. It must have cost them tens of thousands.

Just out of interest in what area are you shopping that the supermarkets have to install these things? Im in the London Borough of Bromley and have not see anything like these exit barriers in the supermarkets I have been to.

I was wondering the same thing.

Perhaps people can quote their locations as this doesn’t appear to be a national trend (yet).

[lizardbrain]

I can almost imagine a future where posh shops operate an honesty system with no checks at all. And rougher shops use non fatal lasers to zap you if don't scan your stuff correctly. Almost!

Edited by lizardbrain on Tuesday 9th April 11:21

[xx99xx]

Cotty said:

xx99xx said:

I'm at Tesco twice a week and use the self checkout pretty much all the time. I have the 'bag approval needed' issue every time. .

'Insanity is doing the same thing over and over again and expecting different results. '

But I know that bags will need to be approved before proceeding and don't expect anything different. I use the self serve tills out of preference. It may take longer than alternatives but I'm never in such a rush that a few extra minutes in Tesco will make any difference to my life.

It's a lot more pleasant than Aldi/Lidl where (my local ones at least) don't have self serve tills, never have enough tills open and when you do eventually get your turn, they throw it through the scanner at lightening pace and tell you how much you owe, whilst you're still only half way through dismantling the mountain of scanned shopping at the end and putting it in bags. So I don't do big shops at those places.

[Hol]

Mont Blanc said:

I agree with all of that, especially with the bit in bold. As I suggested in my post above, the way to deal with it was passive aggressive - Politely tell the guard you are happy to stand right there and wait until the police arrive. Inform the guard he has no legal right to search you, but are more than happy for the police to do so when they arrive.

Ask to speak to the duty manager or store manger.

If the guard then does something stupid like physically tackles you or snatches you bag off you, just let him, and then proceed straight to your solicitors office for a nice payout.

I do feel sorry for Milkround. I applaud anyone that wishes to stand up for their rights and the letter of the law, but he just went about it in a deranged fashion in the heat of the moment.

I said it on the thread concerned, but Milky acted EXACTLY the same manner as the people you see way to often who don’t buy a ticket on the trains.

Those who commute daily, will understand exactly what sort of behaviour I mean, but whose don’t will likely quote some irrelevant left field crap about people genuinely making a mistake (which is not the same thing as those people are calm and quiet and don’t get shouty and indignant)

Edited by Hol on Tuesday 9th April 11:26

[Monkeylegend]

I thought the current trend nowadays was to walk in, take what you want, and walk out without paying or being challenged by anyone.

[Mont Blanc]

In other news, Amazon have abandoning their 'Just walk out' system in their Amazon Go stores, admitting "It has never worked properly" and they are spending vast amounts of money employing over 1000 people to manually review videos of people shopping and correctly tag the items they purchased as the AI camera system just doesn't function correctly.

https://gizmodo.com/amazon-reportedly-ditches-just...

https://www.thegrocer.co.uk/technology-and-supply-...

[Mont Blanc]

Hol said:

Mont Blanc said:

I agree with all of that, especially with the bit in bold. As I suggested in my post above, the way to deal with it was passive aggressive - Politely tell the guard you are happy to stand right there and wait until the police arrive. Inform the guard he has no legal right to search you, but are more than happy for the police to do so when they arrive.

Ask to speak to the duty manager or store manger.

If the guard then does something stupid like physically tackles you or snatches you bag off you, just let him, and then proceed straight to your solicitors office for a nice payout.

I do feel sorry for Milkround. I applaud anyone that wishes to stand up for their rights and the letter of the law, but he just went about it in a deranged fashion in the heat of the moment.

I said it on the thread concerned, but Milky acted EXACTLY the same manner as the people you see way to often who don’t buy a ticket on the trains.

Those who commute daily, will understand exactly what sort of behaviour I mean, but whose don’t will likely quote some irrelevant left field crap about people genuinely making a mistake (which is not the same thing as those people are calm and quiet and don’t get shouty and indignant)

Wouldn't disagree with that. It was unfortunate for Milkround, but yes, his behaviour was similar to those who have dodged a train fare or jumped the Tube barrier. Refuse to stop, attempt to leave, keep walking, start shouting stuff like "Go away, leave me alone".

[Evanivitch]

dontlookdown said:

But that's only partly true. Shoplifters are the proximate cause, yes, but supermarkets have knowingly created an environment where it is now much easier for shoplifters to shoplift, all in the name of saving money (savings which I bet are nothing like as large as they would like us to think). Did they really believe that criminals would just conveniently stop nicking stuff?

Shop security has never been about saving money due to avoiding losses.

Losing money in shrinkage is nothing compared to compensation and legal costs. A security guard in the UK has only limited legal powers to prevent theft and detain. They have no legal basis for carrying a weapon. The costs of interventions to prevent theft can be in the millions.

Yes, you get have a go heroes and staff occasionally chase a theft of a box of cider, but the second you escalate to the norm then simply carrying a pocket knife is enough to make most People realise that £15/hr isn't worth the harm.

[Cotty]

xx99xx said:

Cotty said:

xx99xx said:

I'm at Tesco twice a week and use the self checkout pretty much all the time. I have the 'bag approval needed' issue every time. .

'Insanity is doing the same thing over and over again and expecting different results. '

But I know that bags will need to be approved before proceeding and don't expect anything different. I use the self serve tills out of preference. It may take longer than alternatives but I'm never in such a rush that a few extra minutes in Tesco will make any difference to my life.

What I mean is scan and pay for the goods then put then bag them. I know there is no way it would accept my rucksack so don't even bother putting it on the scales.

[eldar]

Self scan with the hand held gadget seems ideal. Pick up trolley, couple of empty bags, scan and dump in the bags, wander out via the almost deserted check out, a minute, possibly two if you have booze. Had one 90 second check in the last year.

Didn't realise I was participating in some sort of conspiracy theory, I'll get extra tinfoil next shop.

[xx99xx]

Mont Blanc said:

In other news, Amazon have abandoning their 'Just walk out' system in their Amazon Go stores, admitting "It has never worked properly" and they are spending vast amounts of money employing over 1000 people to manually review videos of people shopping and correctly tag the items they purchased as the AI camera system just doesn't function correctly.

https://gizmodo.com/amazon-reportedly-ditches-just...

https://www.thegrocer.co.uk/technology-and-supply-...

Meanwhile Tesco GetGo is still going and seemingly expanding. It has worked well in my experience, even when I've tried to fool the system (out of curiosity) by picking up something, walking around a bit then putting it back again. The AI knows you've put it back. Very clever.

[Mont Blanc]

xx99xx said:

Mont Blanc said:

In other news, Amazon have abandoning their 'Just walk out' system in their Amazon Go stores, admitting "It has never worked properly" and they are spending vast amounts of money employing over 1000 people to manually review videos of people shopping and correctly tag the items they purchased as the AI camera system just doesn't function correctly.

https://gizmodo.com/amazon-reportedly-ditches-just...

https://www.thegrocer.co.uk/technology-and-supply-...

Meanwhile Tesco GetGo is still going and seemingly expanding. It has worked well in my experience, even when I've tried to fool the system (out of curiosity) by picking up something, walking around a bit then putting it back again. The AI knows you've put it back. Very clever.

That is interesting, and it makes you wonder about the difference in tech they use.

Amazon Go opened in 2018, so in theory the tech is 6 years old now (despite continuous tweaking) and we know how much AI has been improved and utilised in the past few years.

Tesco may be working with the Mk2 version of the AI shopping tech... or... maybe they are having the same issues as Amazon and just think they can continue developing the system until it works correctly.

[clockworks]

xx99xx said:

But I know that bags will need to be approved before proceeding and don't expect anything different. I use the self serve tills out of preference. It may take longer than alternatives but I'm never in such a rush that a few extra minutes in Tesco will make any difference to my life.

It's a lot more pleasant than Aldi/Lidl where (my local ones at least) don't have self serve tills, never have enough tills open and when you do eventually get your turn, they throw it through the scanner at lightening pace and tell you how much you owe, whilst you're still only half way through dismantling the mountain of scanned shopping at the end and putting it in bags. So I don't do big shops at those places.

Lidl (and, I think Aldi) are laid out so that you don't pack your bags at the till. That's why the counter area is so small. You are supposed to put it all back in the trolley/basket, then go to the long bench and pack your bags there. Faster throughput, less checkout staff needed.

Apparently this system works well in Europe, but us Brits don't like it.
When our local Lidl opened, a few people would actually use the benches. Nobody bothers now.

[Road2Ruin]

markymarkthree said:

Simple answers to all the problems on here.
Use a manned till.
Pay with cash.
Don't shop at Tesco.

Never have a problem with any of it. Are you sure it's not you?

[KP328]

I have no problem using self service checkouts and if the manned till has a queue it can be quicker but it is a bit of a hassle like a couple of weeks ago if something doesn't scan.

Tomatoes reduced to 40p wouldn't scan so the member of staff types something into the till and the price comes up at £14.500 !! so another member of staff had to come over to sort that out, meanwhile the queue that was at the manned till had disappeared.