Discussion
markcoznottz said:
bales said:
Steriods don't give you big 'swollen' muscles they simply allow your body to recover quicker.
Therefore you can train harder and more frequently than you could normally which is what brings about the gains.
Dont be a silly boy. Google images of bodybuilders from the 1940s, compare to images of those from the 1980s. Notice any difference? Therefore you can train harder and more frequently than you could normally which is what brings about the gains.
markcoznottz said:
bales said:
Steriods don't give you big 'swollen' muscles they simply allow your body to recover quicker.
Therefore you can train harder and more frequently than you could normally which is what brings about the gains.
Dont be a silly boy. Google images of bodybuilders from the 1940s, compare to images of those from the 1980s. Notice any difference? Therefore you can train harder and more frequently than you could normally which is what brings about the gains.
You break down the fibres and repair them stronger and larger, the main benefit of the various anabolic steriods is that they improve and quicken this process...
How else would they help to improve performance and build mass? Do they magically increase muscle mass on their own, do they magically break down the fibres and repair them?
They just improve the bodies ability/capacity to carry out its normal functions.
NoelWatson said:
markcoznottz said:
bales said:
Steriods don't give you big 'swollen' muscles they simply allow your body to recover quicker.
Therefore you can train harder and more frequently than you could normally which is what brings about the gains.
Dont be a silly boy. Google images of bodybuilders from the 1940s, compare to images of those from the 1980s. Notice any difference? Therefore you can train harder and more frequently than you could normally which is what brings about the gains.
Yes steriods help and can allow you to put on more muscle mass than through normal training but the reason they look so different is down to how they train.
Functional hypertrophy and non-functional hypertrophy? Hgh weight low reps makes your body respond very differently to a lower weight and higher reps.
When do powerlifters ever do more than 3 reps? Not very often.
I don't understand why people think that steriods are a magical substance, the main things that does give you a certain 'look' is HGH but we aren't discussing that. Its quite possible to take steriods and have a 'normal' physique it just depends how you train.
bales said:
markcoznottz said:
bales said:
Steriods don't give you big 'swollen' muscles they simply allow your body to recover quicker.
Therefore you can train harder and more frequently than you could normally which is what brings about the gains.
Dont be a silly boy. Google images of bodybuilders from the 1940s, compare to images of those from the 1980s. Notice any difference? Therefore you can train harder and more frequently than you could normally which is what brings about the gains.
You break down the fibres and repair them stronger and larger, the main benefit of the various anabolic steriods is that they improve and quicken this process...
How else would they help to improve performance and build mass? Do they magically increase muscle mass on their own, do they magically break down the fibres and repair them?
They just improve the bodies ability/capacity to carry out its normal functions.
different steroids have different and varying effects but they all work on the same principal, as bales said, they aid recovery, this is done by improving the bodies ability synthesize protein to aid in recovery, in addition to this some add allot of water to the the muscle resulting in the bloated look that sometimes can be seen in poor usage.
The main difference in look from 80s - 00s is from Human Growth Hormone & Inulin growth factor, these are not steroids (although probably sold by the same dealers)
Pvapour said:
rather than patronising people try to UNDERSTAND how they work!
different steroids have different and varying effects but they all work on the same principal, as bales said, they aid recovery, this is done by improving the bodies ability synthesize protein to aid in recovery, in addition to this some add allot of water to the the muscle resulting in the bloated look that sometimes can be seen in poor usage.
The main difference in look from 80s - 00s is from Human Growth Hormone & Inulin growth factor, these are not steroids (although probably sold by the same dealers)
You mean how I got called a silly boy and was patronised myself for simply stating the basic facts.different steroids have different and varying effects but they all work on the same principal, as bales said, they aid recovery, this is done by improving the bodies ability synthesize protein to aid in recovery, in addition to this some add allot of water to the the muscle resulting in the bloated look that sometimes can be seen in poor usage.
The main difference in look from 80s - 00s is from Human Growth Hormone & Inulin growth factor, these are not steroids (although probably sold by the same dealers)
But anyway apologies for the curt responses - its still early and I slept crap!
bales said:
Pvapour said:
rather than patronising people try to UNDERSTAND how they work!
different steroids have different and varying effects but they all work on the same principal, as bales said, they aid recovery, this is done by improving the bodies ability synthesize protein to aid in recovery, in addition to this some add allot of water to the the muscle resulting in the bloated look that sometimes can be seen in poor usage.
The main difference in look from 80s - 00s is from Human Growth Hormone & Inulin growth factor, these are not steroids (although probably sold by the same dealers)
You mean how I got called a silly boy and was patronised myself for simply stating the basic facts.different steroids have different and varying effects but they all work on the same principal, as bales said, they aid recovery, this is done by improving the bodies ability synthesize protein to aid in recovery, in addition to this some add allot of water to the the muscle resulting in the bloated look that sometimes can be seen in poor usage.
The main difference in look from 80s - 00s is from Human Growth Hormone & Inulin growth factor, these are not steroids (although probably sold by the same dealers)
But anyway apologies for the curt responses - its still early and I slept crap!
Steroids help recover and help the body make more proteins.
"The effect of anabolic steroids on muscle mass is caused in at least two ways:[23] first, they increase the production of proteins; second, they reduce recovery time by blocking the effects of stress hormone cortisol on muscle tissue, so that catabolism of muscle is greatly reduced. It has been hypothesized that this reduction in muscle breakdown may occur through anabolic steroids inhibiting the action of other steroid hormones called glucocorticoids that promote the breakdown of muscles.[24] Anabolic steroids also affect the number of cells that develop into fat-storage cells, by favouring cellular differentiation into muscle cells instead.[25] Anabolic steroids can also decrease fat by increasing basal metabolic rate (BMR), since an increase in muscle mass increases BMR."
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Anabolic_steroids#Mec...
Powerlifters and strongmen do have massive muscles, their muscles just look different since they go for maximal/static strength and/or explosive/dynamic strength over the pump.
Some over the counter products I have read contain illegal substances, hence the reason why some of them work. I have mates who say creatine works but I don't know.
Steroids are not just used by bodybuilders for the pump, but also wrestlers, baseball players, MMA figheters, boxers, Rugby layrs, just aboot any sport in the USA
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Use_of_performance-en...
"The effect of anabolic steroids on muscle mass is caused in at least two ways:[23] first, they increase the production of proteins; second, they reduce recovery time by blocking the effects of stress hormone cortisol on muscle tissue, so that catabolism of muscle is greatly reduced. It has been hypothesized that this reduction in muscle breakdown may occur through anabolic steroids inhibiting the action of other steroid hormones called glucocorticoids that promote the breakdown of muscles.[24] Anabolic steroids also affect the number of cells that develop into fat-storage cells, by favouring cellular differentiation into muscle cells instead.[25] Anabolic steroids can also decrease fat by increasing basal metabolic rate (BMR), since an increase in muscle mass increases BMR."
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Anabolic_steroids#Mec...
Powerlifters and strongmen do have massive muscles, their muscles just look different since they go for maximal/static strength and/or explosive/dynamic strength over the pump.
Some over the counter products I have read contain illegal substances, hence the reason why some of them work. I have mates who say creatine works but I don't know.
Steroids are not just used by bodybuilders for the pump, but also wrestlers, baseball players, MMA figheters, boxers, Rugby layrs, just aboot any sport in the USA
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Use_of_performance-en...
speed_monkey said:
Are they truly that effective when coupled with an aggressive work out regime?
Simply, yes. As mentioned somewhere else, compare the physical size of bodybuilders from the 40's to those now.
speed_monkey said:
What exactly does it do?
(Excluding the scientific part) - Take steroids, eat (properly) like a maniac, train hard and you'll see gains equivlent to atleast 3 or 4 (or maybe even 6) times that which you would get without the steroids. You 'could' work like a mule for 3 months and see atleast the equivlant of a years hard graft in the gym (pretty tempting huh?). Faster gain in muscle size and faster gains in strength.. but not without the work.
Taken alone, steroids will do nothing of any positive value.
You say you don't want to be lectured about 'roid rage', shrunken testes etc but there are definatley cons' that might outweigh the apparent pros' that steroids appear to offer over a 'natural' training regime.
Edited by UncleRic on Friday 9th July 10:03
NoelWatson said:
Halb said:
Powerlifters and strongmen do have massive muscles, their muscles just look different since they go for maximal/static strength and/or explosive/dynamic strength over the pump.
Even drug free powerlifters and strongmen? (all in relation to the body frame, on a big frame big muscles need to be immense to look 'big'), or to put it another way, I know I don't look good next to many in my gym, but I know my muscles are bigger than most in there.Human Growth Hormone is an alternative or addition to steroids. Carefully controlled doses will help prevent aging, reduce fat and increase muscle tone. If you can afford it then you certain private doctors will prescribe it legally and keep your usage monitored. Side effects are similar to steroids, but if you take a small enough dose you'll reduce the risk. Lots of cheap, rubbish, growth hormone out there that I wouldn't touch.
Halb said:
NoelWatson said:
Halb said:
Powerlifters and strongmen do have massive muscles, their muscles just look different since they go for maximal/static strength and/or explosive/dynamic strength over the pump.
Even drug free powerlifters and strongmen? (all in relation to the body frame, on a big frame big muscles need to be immense to look 'big'), or to put it another way, I know I don't look good next to many in my gym, but I know my muscles are bigger than most in there.They wouldn't follow the same schedule as the one on steroids would more than likely make quicker gains so move up the weights quicker.
I don't really follow what your point is, I can see that you are trying to imply that the one taking the steriods would 'look' different bit I think you are trying to oversimplify the matter.
You don't 'look' a certain way due to taking steroids, you look a certain way due to the type of training that you do. It means that with steroids you can go further with that type of training than someone 'natural' would and therefore be stronger/bigger.
The case with bodybuilders is that they train for hypertrophy by doing specific reps and percentages designed to increase muscle density/mass more so than that of a powerlifters muscles.
The difference is that you can take that 'hypertrophy' training further when on PED's due to the ability to train harder and recover quicker. The size is a function of the training not of the steroids, it just so happens that steroids allow you to do that training.
I don't really follow what your point is, I can see that you are trying to imply that the one taking the steriods would 'look' different bit I think you are trying to oversimplify the matter.
You don't 'look' a certain way due to taking steroids, you look a certain way due to the type of training that you do. It means that with steroids you can go further with that type of training than someone 'natural' would and therefore be stronger/bigger.
The case with bodybuilders is that they train for hypertrophy by doing specific reps and percentages designed to increase muscle density/mass more so than that of a powerlifters muscles.
The difference is that you can take that 'hypertrophy' training further when on PED's due to the ability to train harder and recover quicker. The size is a function of the training not of the steroids, it just so happens that steroids allow you to do that training.
Crikey, chill out guys 
I'd say most strongman, are on the gear, its just that most have a much higher fat percentage than a bodybuilder, Look at Pudzianowski - He's had more chemicals inside him than an illiegal rave.
The truth is if you want to get big (and i mean big) then you need to train your ass off, eat loads of protein and take the gear. I've met kids who have juiced up and not followed a dedicated routine and ate crap and they wonder why they dont put much size on.
I dont judge anyone who takes gear that is their choice, but for me the downsides in the long term are not worth it, just dont believe everything you read.
I'd say most strongman, are on the gear, its just that most have a much higher fat percentage than a bodybuilder, Look at Pudzianowski - He's had more chemicals inside him than an illiegal rave.
The truth is if you want to get big (and i mean big) then you need to train your ass off, eat loads of protein and take the gear. I've met kids who have juiced up and not followed a dedicated routine and ate crap and they wonder why they dont put much size on.
I dont judge anyone who takes gear that is their choice, but for me the downsides in the long term are not worth it, just dont believe everything you read.
bales said:
They wouldn't follow the same schedule as the one on steroids would more than likely make quicker gains so move up the weights quicker.
I don't really follow what your point is, I can see that you are trying to imply that the one taking the steriods would 'look' different bit I think you are trying to oversimplify the matter.
My point is that the juicers I see in the gym have big muscles but most certainly haven't moved up the weights quicker. Back to my point about the twins - if they stuck to the same regime and followed the non-juicer's progress, would they appear identical?I don't really follow what your point is, I can see that you are trying to imply that the one taking the steriods would 'look' different bit I think you are trying to oversimplify the matter.
shakotan said:
bales said:
Pvapour said:
rather than patronising people try to UNDERSTAND how they work!
different steroids have different and varying effects but they all work on the same principal, as bales said, they aid recovery, this is done by improving the bodies ability synthesize protein to aid in recovery, in addition to this some add allot of water to the the muscle resulting in the bloated look that sometimes can be seen in poor usage.
The main difference in look from 80s - 00s is from Human Growth Hormone & Inulin growth factor, these are not steroids (although probably sold by the same dealers)
You mean how I got called a silly boy and was patronised myself for simply stating the basic facts.different steroids have different and varying effects but they all work on the same principal, as bales said, they aid recovery, this is done by improving the bodies ability synthesize protein to aid in recovery, in addition to this some add allot of water to the the muscle resulting in the bloated look that sometimes can be seen in poor usage.
The main difference in look from 80s - 00s is from Human Growth Hormone & Inulin growth factor, these are not steroids (although probably sold by the same dealers)
But anyway apologies for the curt responses - its still early and I slept crap!
bales said:
The difference is that you can take that 'hypertrophy' training further when on PED's due to the ability to train harder and recover quicker. The size is a function of the training not of the steroids, it just so happens that steroids allow you to do that training.
...and train at that level for longer periods of time. Also, what about the psychological effect of being on the gear? "My training's going well, my diet is perfect and now I've got some magic juice to go with it - I'm unstoppable!" The mental aspect of training is prob. enhanced (as long as training is going well).One thing that hasn't been mentioned is that an apparent common side-effect of PEDs is that because the right usage can result in very rapid muscle growth (as opposed to tendon/ligament strengthening, which occurs at a much slower rate) the supporting tendons, etc are much weaker and tears are more common than amongst natural trainers.
NoelWatson said:
bales said:
They wouldn't follow the same schedule as the one on steroids would more than likely make quicker gains so move up the weights quicker.
I don't really follow what your point is, I can see that you are trying to imply that the one taking the steriods would 'look' different bit I think you are trying to oversimplify the matter.
My point is that the juicers I see in the gym have big muscles but most certainly haven't moved up the weights quicker. Back to my point about the twins - if they stuck to the same regime and followed the non-juicer's progress, would they appear identical?I don't really follow what your point is, I can see that you are trying to imply that the one taking the steriods would 'look' different bit I think you are trying to oversimplify the matter.
A big muscle isn't necessarily a strong muscle!
I am positive if the 'juicers' applied their training correctly to develop maximum strength and not size then they would be stronger but smaller.
The only small point I will concede is that incorrect dosage can pull fluid into the muscle - much like creatine - which can give the appearance of size.
To answer your question if both the twins trained identically, with identical weights, identical reps, identical diet etc etc....yes I think they would look the same. However the one on steriods would probably find it easier and not be as sore and therefore want to train harder heavier.
Animal said:
bales said:
The difference is that you can take that 'hypertrophy' training further when on PED's due to the ability to train harder and recover quicker. The size is a function of the training not of the steroids, it just so happens that steroids allow you to do that training.
...and train at that level for longer periods of time. Also, what about the psychological effect of being on the gear? "My training's going well, my diet is perfect and now I've got some magic juice to go with it - I'm unstoppable!" The mental aspect of training is prob. enhanced (as long as training is going well).One thing that hasn't been mentioned is that an apparent common side-effect of PEDs is that because the right usage can result in very rapid muscle growth (as opposed to tendon/ligament strengthening, which occurs at a much slower rate) the supporting tendons, etc are much weaker and tears are more common than amongst natural trainers.
If you read Dwain Chambers book he had to drink loads of water and was forever cramping up due to this very reason.
Though I think your point on the pyschological view on things is perhaps one of the biggest factors - its like in the gym when you have one of those sessions where you are so up for it and you just keep going and going and feel invincible!!
Absolutely agree that size doesn't equal strength. I know a joiner who's about 67 and 5'0" if he's on tip toes. Can't be more than 8 stone. This wee bugger can lift a 5 foot granite lintel on his own without much effort.
A lifetime of hard labour. He doesn't have large muscles but, by f
k, he is very, very strong. 
A lifetime of hard labour. He doesn't have large muscles but, by f
k, he is very, very strong. Gassing Station | Health Matters | Top of Page | What's New | My Stuff