30 somethings - are you going to vax?
Discussion
TypeRTim said:
Merely stating a proposition which, I feel, many share, which is that based on probability me getting the vaccine isn't going to make any difference to the community at large if I am at low risk of infection or severe infection.
You haven't really directly refuted any of the points i listed as reasons why, only attacked me by eluding i think I'm intellectually superior.
Feel sorry that you are suffering with it, little one had an infection a few weeks back that he picked up from nursery - was a right little bugger! GP determined to try and get him PCR tested for Delta variant (a 20 month old!!!) - which he showed no signs of having so I rightly denied putting him through it. It was a chest infection that cleared through antibiotics which I had to fight the GP for a prescription (not physically, but you get my drift).
If you are double vaccinated and still got it pretty rough (enough for your partner to be 'running around after you') it definitely doesn't entice me to take the vaccine, I'd get it pretty rough without the jab, so you've only really strengthened that argument for me. My immune system is naturally pretty tough and I don't succumb to things nearly as quickly as my wife does, oftentimes I don't succumb at all while she has a day in bed!
Vaccination reduces viral load and therefore transmissibility - granted. However, for that risk to be reduced I'd have to catch it. Gone a year and a half without knowingly having it and asymptomatic spread still isn't a black and white proven hypothesis. Community transmission is reducing all the time now - you just have to look at the daily 'cases' data.
My reasoning is based on the past year and a half, my current social profile/engagements and the makeup of my family and social network - I'm highly unlikely to catch it and therefore become a vector. If i do catch it, I'm not likely to get a severe case and therefore not likely to have a high enough viral load to become a spreader. If i do, my circle is all vaccinated so they are protected regardless.
If you are clinically vulnerable, are immuno-compromised, have an underlying health issue or are just plain scared of it, by all means get the vaccine. I'm not here telling anyone not to. Nowhere in my post did I say 'I'm not getting one and neither should you'. I merely said I'm not currently planning on having it, listed my reasons as to why and said that if you want it, or have had it, I respect your decision. In other words I answered the OPs question and the tile of the thread.
To give an anecdote - before Covid was officially a thing, my wife's cousin who is a midwife, in her 40s and generally fit/healthy was hospitalised for a week with flu symptoms and eventually pneumonia (had to be put on vent). Was in a very bad way. Didn't mean the whole family immediately all went and got flu shots. None of us then shyed away from them when they got out of hospital and they didn't demand we provided proof a flu shot before we went to see them.
For herd immunity to work we all need to take the vaccine (or at least 70-80% of us) and not only does it reduce the risk to others but it also stops new variants. It is why we give the MMR jab even though there are very few cases of MMR in kids; there aren't many cases because we give the jab.You haven't really directly refuted any of the points i listed as reasons why, only attacked me by eluding i think I'm intellectually superior.
Feel sorry that you are suffering with it, little one had an infection a few weeks back that he picked up from nursery - was a right little bugger! GP determined to try and get him PCR tested for Delta variant (a 20 month old!!!) - which he showed no signs of having so I rightly denied putting him through it. It was a chest infection that cleared through antibiotics which I had to fight the GP for a prescription (not physically, but you get my drift).
If you are double vaccinated and still got it pretty rough (enough for your partner to be 'running around after you') it definitely doesn't entice me to take the vaccine, I'd get it pretty rough without the jab, so you've only really strengthened that argument for me. My immune system is naturally pretty tough and I don't succumb to things nearly as quickly as my wife does, oftentimes I don't succumb at all while she has a day in bed!
Vaccination reduces viral load and therefore transmissibility - granted. However, for that risk to be reduced I'd have to catch it. Gone a year and a half without knowingly having it and asymptomatic spread still isn't a black and white proven hypothesis. Community transmission is reducing all the time now - you just have to look at the daily 'cases' data.
My reasoning is based on the past year and a half, my current social profile/engagements and the makeup of my family and social network - I'm highly unlikely to catch it and therefore become a vector. If i do catch it, I'm not likely to get a severe case and therefore not likely to have a high enough viral load to become a spreader. If i do, my circle is all vaccinated so they are protected regardless.
If you are clinically vulnerable, are immuno-compromised, have an underlying health issue or are just plain scared of it, by all means get the vaccine. I'm not here telling anyone not to. Nowhere in my post did I say 'I'm not getting one and neither should you'. I merely said I'm not currently planning on having it, listed my reasons as to why and said that if you want it, or have had it, I respect your decision. In other words I answered the OPs question and the tile of the thread.
To give an anecdote - before Covid was officially a thing, my wife's cousin who is a midwife, in her 40s and generally fit/healthy was hospitalised for a week with flu symptoms and eventually pneumonia (had to be put on vent). Was in a very bad way. Didn't mean the whole family immediately all went and got flu shots. None of us then shyed away from them when they got out of hospital and they didn't demand we provided proof a flu shot before we went to see them.
The daily stats should be enough to convince anyone to take it. Loads of infections but very few deaths.
Prof Prolapse said:
hyphen said:
Prof Prolapse said:
The gas plumber who was due to sort out my dad's boiler said similar last week having allegedly been completely bed bound for three days and now let down several customers. He's self-employed as well, so that would seem to be somewhat of an expensive mistake, and of course, crossing fingers he didn't spread it to anyone vulnerable when entering people's homes as well.
When he recovers I wonder if he'll still be an expert in vaccines as well as plumbing,
Fit and healthy?When he recovers I wonder if he'll still be an expert in vaccines as well as plumbing,
Slagathore said:
As for Prof Prolapse's anecdote, it sounds like your plumber's done alright. 3 days of illness and now most likely has long lasting immunity and protection against re-infection.
Of course, I'll await you to add that he's now actually only got 7% lung capacity and doesn't have the strength to carry his toolbox any more.
As I said, the gentleman himself regrets the decision, it's not my annotations that matter.Of course, I'll await you to add that he's now actually only got 7% lung capacity and doesn't have the strength to carry his toolbox any more.
He was on day three when he sounded f
king terrible. He hadn't finished, in the mean time he's not working, and repeat business is unlikely. As I say there's also the risk he's contributed to the spread of the illness as he enteres people's homes for a living, so has failed his social responsibilities there somewhat.If I hear he's at deaths door it may further the anecdote but I simply don't care enough to follow up, I thought the same as everyone else, "you pay your money, you make your choice", and he will probably be alright.
Then you go on to say this is a story you heard?
just wow. A fairy tale.Your last "point" - even if he was vaccinated he could still have passed on Covid as a vaccination does not stop you getting it or transmitting it so it makes no difference to the people he visited.....if he even existed.
Edited by anonymous-user on Wednesday 28th July 04:56
Prof Prolapse said:
Get well soon mate. I think we all roll the dice with Covid as clearly it can be quite severe, but thankfully if you've had one jab and are otherwise fit and heathy, it is very unlikely to be serious.
When I got it (after two jabs!) I spent the whole time wondering how bad I would have been if I'd not been vaccinated.
thank you When I got it (after two jabs!) I spent the whole time wondering how bad I would have been if I'd not been vaccinated.
its like a bad flu... so i guess could be worse...Prof Prolapse said:
I think you might find my answers to this unsatisfying. I don't hold such strong opinions here.
Personally I would give over 12s the option of the vaccine, yes. It is very safe and in the case of the Pfizer vaccine even licensed, but it in Scotland at least, the right to decide treatment is at twelve, so a national roll out of that age group would be troublesome to say the least. It would be a national failure, which is one of the many reasons I suspect Nicola Sturgeon will endorse the JCVI position in the coming weeks, but over 12s may be offered a vaccine on a more relaxed, voluntary, basis. That seems a good balance to me.
One man's coercion isn't another man's "duty of care" I suppose. I support someone's "right" to decline the vaccine (but not the act itself) but individual freedoms must be balanced against social responsibilities. I don't see what option employers and organisations have but to continue to have some sort of workable restrictions in place to protect themselves legally (and morally) and a vaccination status lets them do this in a relatively easy manner.
I said this a long time ago, but if individuals aren't vaccinated who work for me, I personally will push to have them reallocated or let go entirely from the company. It's nothing personal, but I cannot have them increasing the risk of vulnerable people who they may work in the vicinity of, I won't however lose any sleep over it.
You're free to make your own choices, but it's not up to the rest of to bend over to accommodate them is how I see it, not so much coercion as more you made your bed, you lie in it
Personally I would give over 12s the option of the vaccine, yes. It is very safe and in the case of the Pfizer vaccine even licensed, but it in Scotland at least, the right to decide treatment is at twelve, so a national roll out of that age group would be troublesome to say the least. It would be a national failure, which is one of the many reasons I suspect Nicola Sturgeon will endorse the JCVI position in the coming weeks, but over 12s may be offered a vaccine on a more relaxed, voluntary, basis. That seems a good balance to me.
One man's coercion isn't another man's "duty of care" I suppose. I support someone's "right" to decline the vaccine (but not the act itself) but individual freedoms must be balanced against social responsibilities. I don't see what option employers and organisations have but to continue to have some sort of workable restrictions in place to protect themselves legally (and morally) and a vaccination status lets them do this in a relatively easy manner.
I said this a long time ago, but if individuals aren't vaccinated who work for me, I personally will push to have them reallocated or let go entirely from the company. It's nothing personal, but I cannot have them increasing the risk of vulnerable people who they may work in the vicinity of, I won't however lose any sleep over it.
You're free to make your own choices, but it's not up to the rest of to bend over to accommodate them is how I see it, not so much coercion as more you made your bed, you lie in it
You may as well ask to see everyones papers and setup concentration camps.You would sack people for bot having an untested (over any decent time period) "vaccine" because they may have 15% more likelyhood to transmitting the virus to your supposedly immune vaccinated self?
Wow. Social responsibility? That trumps not wanting adverse affects from something rushed through in a few months rather than 10 years does it?
You really should have a good think about that. So many people have rushed headling into this that they haven't really thought about it at all and as they did so now desperately expect everyone tonfollow suit.
If these "vaccines" had been tried and tested for several years you might have a point but basically putting all your trust into these corporations that have been absolved of any legal responsibility (and requested that before releasing it) to me is bordering on madness. No vaccines are made thia quickly and making yourself a guinea pig is one thing but puahing it onto others and children is literally unbelievable.
You and nobody else know if the long terms affects and nil, negligable, dibilitating or deadly in 10-20 years time
Any company or person that forces this on people should (and hopefully will) be made to deal with the huge compensation claims of any consequences resulting from these experimental jabs.
simoid said:
sutoka said:
Still not getting it, nobody knows the long term effects and nobody has yet convinced me otherwise. In fact a close friend is currently in hospital with serious side effects only a few days after her second jab.
Hope your friend recovers. I find the anti covid vax logic warped: faced between the choice of letting everyone get the virus, or letting everyone get the vaccine, you’d choose the former? 4bn have had the vaccine. If it was 4bn who’d had the virus…
If I’ve got 1,000,000 friends I’d rather they got the vaccine rather than the virus. Surely everyone is the same.
4billion may have had a "vaccine".....lets hope that there are not long term effects for those people as the planet could be very different in 10 years time if so. Nobody knows as there has been no long term testing of this rushed through "vaccine".
RipTrip1 said:
Well, don't have lockdowns. Just apply herd immunity. Where did you get 1% from its 0.02%, classic winter flu kills almost as much as that (likely more since flu deaths are recorded as covid deaths) and we don't have lockdowns for that either. You seem to think humans will slowly just be wiped out by covid if no intervention is made lol? Even if it somehow does kill 1% of Earths population you can make up for, and save, well over that many lives by simply banning cigarettes.
It’s not easy to calculate accurately but certainly over 1% of cases. Average 2% worldwide stated but that ignores untested, and we are worse than average at 2.16%. That’s across all ages too of course. You aren’t confusing 2% with it’s decimal ?
ORD said:
Depends on the population. 1% seems realistic for the U.K. Vastly lower in younger and healthier populations.
It’s number of cases not population (although related!). I think it’s realistic to bring in population size when it’s all over (if ever) but ‘during’ the only parameter that’s tangible is ‘if I get it what are my chances? - currently 97.8% AVERAGE across the board and rising due to the vax and better treatment. 
petery27 said:
I'm 35 pretty healthy, never take any form of pill or medicine, never have done. never felt i needed too. not so much as an asprin. I have had all my childhood vaccines etc. but i'm questioning this 'vaccine'.
I don't want to have it as i see no need for myself and happy to take that risk but it is being forced for travel which i may have to do for work.
I'd be all for it if it was a true vaccine, stopped you getting it etc. but i see very little benefit for people like myself when it makes very little difference to how we have to carry on with isolating and ongoing issues with travel and tests etc.
i know very few people that have even had covid, could count on one hand, and none have needed hospital treatment or even more that a few days at home.
so i'm currently deciding with the NHS letter in front of me whether i have to have this 'jab' to make travel easier or if i ignore it and pay other guys to do the work abroad for the time being and i remain unvaccinated.
You’re not just doing it for yourself, start reading from page 1 it’s been covered a few times! I don't want to have it as i see no need for myself and happy to take that risk but it is being forced for travel which i may have to do for work.
I'd be all for it if it was a true vaccine, stopped you getting it etc. but i see very little benefit for people like myself when it makes very little difference to how we have to carry on with isolating and ongoing issues with travel and tests etc.
i know very few people that have even had covid, could count on one hand, and none have needed hospital treatment or even more that a few days at home.
so i'm currently deciding with the NHS letter in front of me whether i have to have this 'jab' to make travel easier or if i ignore it and pay other guys to do the work abroad for the time being and i remain unvaccinated.
petery27 said:
because as this statement taken from first line of wikipedia state a vaccine gives you immunity this vaccine does not so is not a true vaccine by definition
'A vaccine is a biological preparation that provides active acquired immunity to a particular infectious disease'
No vaccine is guaranteed to give full immunity.'A vaccine is a biological preparation that provides active acquired immunity to a particular infectious disease'
However you’re trolling so I’ll leave it there.
ORD said:
It’s not a good look to say you won’t respect someone’s personal assessment of risk because you disagree with it.
Imagine a person who is comfortable with known risks (like those posed to them by a respiratory virus) and uncomfortable with unknown risks (like any long term effects from a vaccine). What’s so hard about respecting their decision to go with the known risks over the unknown risks?
I personally was content to take the vaccine, but I perceive very little benefit in it to me or anyone else.
Covid isn’t a known risk, no one knows how they will be affected short it long term? Imagine a person who is comfortable with known risks (like those posed to them by a respiratory virus) and uncomfortable with unknown risks (like any long term effects from a vaccine). What’s so hard about respecting their decision to go with the known risks over the unknown risks?
I personally was content to take the vaccine, but I perceive very little benefit in it to me or anyone else.
The fact that you see no benefit doesn’t make your opinion correct as far as others see it either.
superlightr said:
7-10% of all the population of ALL standards of education dont want the vaccine? and you use that as an example of a big difference in education levels? grasping at straws there.
Except he was correct. 10% is 143% more than 7% so for every 143 educated that were vaccinated only 100 uneducated did. Quite a big difference.
Or alternatively: educated are nearly 50% more likely to be vaccinated.
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