The Official Arsenal Thread (Volume2)
Discussion
bobo said:
are you really naive enough to think that no AAA managers aren't eyeing AW's position? whether the board would entertain the idea is another matter.
lets get a few things straight shall we. this is afc, a very wealthy club with standing and heritage, absolute world class facilities and is the biggest club in the most important city in europe.
it also has (believe it or not) significant transfer funds.... do you honestly think some of the top European managers aren't laughing into their brioches and pretzels at breakfast when they see performances like the last two or that infamous Birmingham match?
do you honestly believe the good guys are thinking; nope i really couldn't have done it better and yup i would be making the same mistakes for nearly 8 seasons for a measly £7.5m pa with no pressure to perform at all ... there's no way i would want that job.
get real, lol! even poor old david moyes has more pressure to perform than AW ... and that's 80pc of the problem.
-would they have been if we still had of been at Highbury and unable to compete?lets get a few things straight shall we. this is afc, a very wealthy club with standing and heritage, absolute world class facilities and is the biggest club in the most important city in europe.
it also has (believe it or not) significant transfer funds.... do you honestly think some of the top European managers aren't laughing into their brioches and pretzels at breakfast when they see performances like the last two or that infamous Birmingham match?
do you honestly believe the good guys are thinking; nope i really couldn't have done it better and yup i would be making the same mistakes for nearly 8 seasons for a measly £7.5m pa with no pressure to perform at all ... there's no way i would want that job.
get real, lol! even poor old david moyes has more pressure to perform than AW ... and that's 80pc of the problem.
mylesmcd said:
So instead of giving us negatives...give us a demonstration of what you would do? Who would you bring in to replace?
Liverpool weren't happy with Benetiz, now look at them. Same for many clubs before and after them.
I am not saying I am happy with the way the club is being run completely. But, jesus, lets have a plan before we act!
Liverpool weren't happy with Benetiz, now look at them. Same for many clubs before and after them.
I am not saying I am happy with the way the club is being run completely. But, jesus, lets have a plan before we act!
-faclities largely down to current manager and previous board. Stand and Heritage mean nothing, neither does where the club is based.
-At what? The result? Or the Manager? I don't recall anyone coming out (especially top Euro Managers) and laughing at anyone tbf...all of them can see and have commented on what a job he has done, in regard to Stadium, players, the game in general etc... Failings, yes, there have been/are some for sure and even we have documented them here.
-The good guys? Like who exactly?? I am not sure of anyone who has lasted like he has, bar ole blue nose himself. Another way to look at it, is that of all the players he has bought, the expensive ones have been the worse (arshavin, reyes.....) so I am happier that he spends on smaller purchases than the likes of a Torres or a Carroll.
-I still havent seen anything positive from you as of what you would do. Not would have done, or could have done better? Give us solutions man...not problems!
Edited by mylesmcd on Thursday 25th October 22:44
lets agree to disagree. back in the real world and given the choice any manager will prefer to work in london as opposed to less significant european city - which is where most of the up and coming talent currently work - the money is better and so is the prestige which im afraid count. you can continue to argue against that until the cows come home by yourself if you want, good luck i'm out...
moving on, my point was a simple one - AW has a unique situation, extravagant pay, for an almost guaranteed tenure with no pressure and no results on the pitch. its almost the perfect job in this crazy world of changing managers every 2 seasons. other managers that have a burning desire to win will relish that environment and thrive in it. just bring back the pressure to perform - to get results. im not talking about saking the new guy after a few bad results, i just think being allowed to go 8 seasons without a trophy precisely because of the same errors is..be it a fixation with youth or not buying a bona fide finished article ~CB ....taking the piss!
im not going to discuss AW's financial achievements for the club. read the posts. i have already acknowledged them and we agree. i joined the debate on the grounds of footballing results as its a 'f o o t b a l l' club not a trading co. (be it property or players) if you recollect?
bilić , tuchel , klopp, stevens, emery. your guess is as good as mine. the footballing statistics/results say AW's time is firmly up (and its probably his opinion too which is why he will decide his future on the basis of his results at the end of this season - according to him) ... that's my only point, not picking a winner - i don't have a crystal ball, do you?
whoever it is you take a risk, the question was; is the risk worth the potential reward and it appears that's where our pricing/appetite of risk and aspiration for the club completely differ. you are satisfied with AWs fiscal achievements for the club and are fearful that a new guy might not deliver. i think the footballing results going forward transcend that as our historical lack of results and our inability to keep the big players is now effecting the big picture of the club. i also think AW doesn't have the capacity, hunger or drive to deliver the final percentile it takes to win anymore. his youth experiment failed in a big way. that was his 'big idea' and hes a stubborn and principled man. it will have hurt him.
solutions? there is only one real solution, change the manager that has an unhealthy control/influence over the club. then rebuild the ethic within the club to foster once again natural competitive spirit.
i very much look forward to AW deciding for himself that he cant take the club further and moving on - im sure he wont manage another club - he knows real world professional football club pressure will probably kill him - and hes not going to go to manage calais FC. the shake up is precisely what the club needs to get back to winning ways, which are - when it counts - all but forgotten. the sadness is AW legacy shouldn't be a history of losing which is what its turning into, he's worth more than that.
frankly, unlike you lot i think the new managerial future looks quite exciting. im looking forward to the ups and downs.
moving on, my point was a simple one - AW has a unique situation, extravagant pay, for an almost guaranteed tenure with no pressure and no results on the pitch. its almost the perfect job in this crazy world of changing managers every 2 seasons. other managers that have a burning desire to win will relish that environment and thrive in it. just bring back the pressure to perform - to get results. im not talking about saking the new guy after a few bad results, i just think being allowed to go 8 seasons without a trophy precisely because of the same errors is..be it a fixation with youth or not buying a bona fide finished article ~CB ....taking the piss!
im not going to discuss AW's financial achievements for the club. read the posts. i have already acknowledged them and we agree. i joined the debate on the grounds of footballing results as its a 'f o o t b a l l' club not a trading co. (be it property or players) if you recollect?
bilić , tuchel , klopp, stevens, emery. your guess is as good as mine. the footballing statistics/results say AW's time is firmly up (and its probably his opinion too which is why he will decide his future on the basis of his results at the end of this season - according to him) ... that's my only point, not picking a winner - i don't have a crystal ball, do you?
whoever it is you take a risk, the question was; is the risk worth the potential reward and it appears that's where our pricing/appetite of risk and aspiration for the club completely differ. you are satisfied with AWs fiscal achievements for the club and are fearful that a new guy might not deliver. i think the footballing results going forward transcend that as our historical lack of results and our inability to keep the big players is now effecting the big picture of the club. i also think AW doesn't have the capacity, hunger or drive to deliver the final percentile it takes to win anymore. his youth experiment failed in a big way. that was his 'big idea' and hes a stubborn and principled man. it will have hurt him.
solutions? there is only one real solution, change the manager that has an unhealthy control/influence over the club. then rebuild the ethic within the club to foster once again natural competitive spirit.
i very much look forward to AW deciding for himself that he cant take the club further and moving on - im sure he wont manage another club - he knows real world professional football club pressure will probably kill him - and hes not going to go to manage calais FC. the shake up is precisely what the club needs to get back to winning ways, which are - when it counts - all but forgotten. the sadness is AW legacy shouldn't be a history of losing which is what its turning into, he's worth more than that.
frankly, unlike you lot i think the new managerial future looks quite exciting. im looking forward to the ups and downs.
mylesmcd said:
-would they have been if we still had of been at Highbury and unable to compete?
-faclities largely down to current manager and previous board. Stand and Heritage mean nothing, neither does where the club is based.
-At what? The result? Or the Manager? I don't recall anyone coming out (especially top Euro Managers) and laughing at anyone tbf...all of them can see and have commented on what a job he has done, in regard to Stadium, players, the game in general etc... Failings, yes, there have been/are some for sure and even we have documented them here.
-The good guys? Like who exactly?? I am not sure of anyone who has lasted like he has, bar ole blue nose himself. Another way to look at it, is that of all the players he has bought, the expensive ones have been the worse (arshavin, reyes.....) so I am happier that he spends on smaller purchases than the likes of a Torres or a Carroll.
-I still havent seen anything positive from you as of what you would do. Not would have done, or could have done better? Give us solutions man...not problems!
-faclities largely down to current manager and previous board. Stand and Heritage mean nothing, neither does where the club is based.
-At what? The result? Or the Manager? I don't recall anyone coming out (especially top Euro Managers) and laughing at anyone tbf...all of them can see and have commented on what a job he has done, in regard to Stadium, players, the game in general etc... Failings, yes, there have been/are some for sure and even we have documented them here.
-The good guys? Like who exactly?? I am not sure of anyone who has lasted like he has, bar ole blue nose himself. Another way to look at it, is that of all the players he has bought, the expensive ones have been the worse (arshavin, reyes.....) so I am happier that he spends on smaller purchases than the likes of a Torres or a Carroll.
-I still havent seen anything positive from you as of what you would do. Not would have done, or could have done better? Give us solutions man...not problems!
Edited by mylesmcd on Thursday 25th October 22:44
bobo said:
lets agree to disagree. back in the real world and given the choice any manager will prefer to work in london as opposed to less significant european city - which is where most of the up and coming talent currently work - the money is better and so is the prestige which im afraid count. you can continue to argue against that until the cows come home by yourself if you want, good luck i'm out...
moving on, my point was a simple one - AW has a unique situation, extravagant pay, for an almost guaranteed tenure with no pressure and no results on the pitch. its almost the perfect job in this crazy world of changing managers every 2 seasons. other managers that have a burning desire to win will relish that environment and thrive in it. just bring back the pressure to perform - to get results. im not talking about saking the new guy after a few bad results, i just think being allowed to go 8 seasons without a trophy precisely because of the same errors is..be it a fixation with youth or not buying a bona fide finished article ~CB ....taking the piss!
im not going to discuss AW's financial achievements for the club. read the posts. i have already acknowledged them and we agree. i joined the debate on the grounds of footballing results as its a 'f o o t b a l l' club not a trading co. (be it property or players) if you recollect?
bilić , tuchel , klopp, stevens, emery. your guess is as good as mine. the footballing statistics/results say AW's time is firmly up (and its probably his opinion too which is why he will decide his future on the basis of his results at the end of this season - according to him) ... that's my only point, not picking a winner - i don't have a crystal ball, do you?
whoever it is you take a risk, the question was; is the risk worth the potential reward and it appears that's where our pricing/appetite of risk and aspiration for the club completely differ. you are satisfied with AWs fiscal achievements for the club and are fearful that a new guy might not deliver. i think the footballing results going forward transcend that as our historical lack of results and our inability to keep the big players is now effecting the big picture of the club. i also think AW doesn't have the capacity, hunger or drive to deliver the final percentile it takes to win anymore. his youth experiment failed in a big way. that was his 'big idea' and hes a stubborn and principled man. it will have hurt him.
solutions? there is only one real solution, change the manager that has an unhealthy control/influence over the club. then rebuild the ethic within the club to foster once again natural competitive spirit.
i very much look forward to AW deciding for himself that he cant take the club further and moving on - im sure he wont manage another club - he knows real world professional football club pressure will probably kill him - and hes not going to go to manage calais FC. the shake up is precisely what the club needs to get back to winning ways, which are - when it counts - all but forgotten. the sadness is AW legacy shouldn't be a history of losing which is what its turning into, he's worth more than that.
frankly, unlike you lot i think the new managerial future looks quite exciting. im looking forward to the ups and downs.
I think we agree that the next manager will have some epic talent to work with and if this is meshed with some good buys in the right areas, we could really dominate like we have before.moving on, my point was a simple one - AW has a unique situation, extravagant pay, for an almost guaranteed tenure with no pressure and no results on the pitch. its almost the perfect job in this crazy world of changing managers every 2 seasons. other managers that have a burning desire to win will relish that environment and thrive in it. just bring back the pressure to perform - to get results. im not talking about saking the new guy after a few bad results, i just think being allowed to go 8 seasons without a trophy precisely because of the same errors is..be it a fixation with youth or not buying a bona fide finished article ~CB ....taking the piss!
im not going to discuss AW's financial achievements for the club. read the posts. i have already acknowledged them and we agree. i joined the debate on the grounds of footballing results as its a 'f o o t b a l l' club not a trading co. (be it property or players) if you recollect?
bilić , tuchel , klopp, stevens, emery. your guess is as good as mine. the footballing statistics/results say AW's time is firmly up (and its probably his opinion too which is why he will decide his future on the basis of his results at the end of this season - according to him) ... that's my only point, not picking a winner - i don't have a crystal ball, do you?
whoever it is you take a risk, the question was; is the risk worth the potential reward and it appears that's where our pricing/appetite of risk and aspiration for the club completely differ. you are satisfied with AWs fiscal achievements for the club and are fearful that a new guy might not deliver. i think the footballing results going forward transcend that as our historical lack of results and our inability to keep the big players is now effecting the big picture of the club. i also think AW doesn't have the capacity, hunger or drive to deliver the final percentile it takes to win anymore. his youth experiment failed in a big way. that was his 'big idea' and hes a stubborn and principled man. it will have hurt him.
solutions? there is only one real solution, change the manager that has an unhealthy control/influence over the club. then rebuild the ethic within the club to foster once again natural competitive spirit.
i very much look forward to AW deciding for himself that he cant take the club further and moving on - im sure he wont manage another club - he knows real world professional football club pressure will probably kill him - and hes not going to go to manage calais FC. the shake up is precisely what the club needs to get back to winning ways, which are - when it counts - all but forgotten. the sadness is AW legacy shouldn't be a history of losing which is what its turning into, he's worth more than that.
frankly, unlike you lot i think the new managerial future looks quite exciting. im looking forward to the ups and downs.
mylesmcd said:
-would they have been if we still had of been at Highbury and unable to compete?
-faclities largely down to current manager and previous board. Stand and Heritage mean nothing, neither does where the club is based.
-At what? The result? Or the Manager? I don't recall anyone coming out (especially top Euro Managers) and laughing at anyone tbf...all of them can see and have commented on what a job he has done, in regard to Stadium, players, the game in general etc... Failings, yes, there have been/are some for sure and even we have documented them here.
-The good guys? Like who exactly?? I am not sure of anyone who has lasted like he has, bar ole blue nose himself. Another way to look at it, is that of all the players he has bought, the expensive ones have been the worse (arshavin, reyes.....) so I am happier that he spends on smaller purchases than the likes of a Torres or a Carroll.
-I still havent seen anything positive from you as of what you would do. Not would have done, or could have done better? Give us solutions man...not problems!
-faclities largely down to current manager and previous board. Stand and Heritage mean nothing, neither does where the club is based.
-At what? The result? Or the Manager? I don't recall anyone coming out (especially top Euro Managers) and laughing at anyone tbf...all of them can see and have commented on what a job he has done, in regard to Stadium, players, the game in general etc... Failings, yes, there have been/are some for sure and even we have documented them here.
-The good guys? Like who exactly?? I am not sure of anyone who has lasted like he has, bar ole blue nose himself. Another way to look at it, is that of all the players he has bought, the expensive ones have been the worse (arshavin, reyes.....) so I am happier that he spends on smaller purchases than the likes of a Torres or a Carroll.
-I still havent seen anything positive from you as of what you would do. Not would have done, or could have done better? Give us solutions man...not problems!
Edited by mylesmcd on Thursday 25th October 22:44
Do I think Wenger has had his time? No. I would love to see him move upstairs. Bring in someone who is a tactically gifted coach, let Wenger work on Talent and Youth Development and fundamentally bring in a deal closer who can get us the targets we spot (Juan Mata springs to mind)
What I do object to is the feeling that Wenger is in it for the Salary, or the strong negative feeling towards him (AlpaHorn for a start) He HAS the best interests of the club at heart, he HAS done a fantastic job and STILL has work left to do. His hands have been tied by financial constraints that have lead this very gifted man to HAVE to steer a club through difficult times...an he has done so very well.
I think we both want the same thing here, we differ on opinion of how best to go about it!
I would like to see him move upstairs in 2 years time, with a new tactically minded manager moving in. Let AW look after player development and youth spotting and bring in someone who will back him in the transfer market. I listened to a great podcast on AW and D.Deins time at the club. It pointed out that Wenger spotted players and Dein was the slightly more cavalier deal closer who persued a little harder than AW or the current lad. I would like to see this kind of set up returning.
Whoever follows Arsene Wenger into Arsenal will have to be a big name and a strong personality to continue his good work and unravel his mistakes.
And big name managers with strong personalities are not only a rare breed, they are also likely to want complete control over playing matters, youth developments etc. In other words, they aren't going to want Wenger hovering over their shoulder watching them like a hawk if he moved upstairs.
And big name managers with strong personalities are not only a rare breed, they are also likely to want complete control over playing matters, youth developments etc. In other words, they aren't going to want Wenger hovering over their shoulder watching them like a hawk if he moved upstairs.
that's correct, the new manager has the most excellent foundations set - its been a brilliant job by AW. it was a point i tried to convey as part of the attraction of the club to bona fide AAA talent. be it a new manager or a player.
the mistake AW made is to help create that environment but not fully capitalize on it 'because' of his beliefs that helped create it. its the typical flawed genius scenario. the idea of signing the one or two big name players that know how to win that are needed to fill the holes, stop the rot .... just doesn't come into play. its not an option. i maintain pressure beyond AW's control led to him doing last min deals on arteta and mertesacker especially when you consider the age and contract terms of the former. and these were not the types of player required that i refer to. flamini, cesc, rvp, nasri, pv4, th14 all knew how to win, some inherited that knowledge from the great double team. it filtered through. this knowledge and belief base has been dismantled by AW. its now playstation kids learning from playstation kids who probably don't even respect the senior players (poldolski excluded) as what have they won/achieved relative to the kids? counter productivity at its very best. unlike wenger i believe there has to be a strong hireachy of leadership for success. its what gets the young talent through the tough games.
the expensively assembled (expense being at the cost of pitch performance not just monetary) youth experiments that are cultured to fruition and then sold before their peak to drive AFC revenue takes priority to siging a 'mata' for example. the funds were there not to argue over what was effectively small change in the grand scheme of things.
i absolutely agree that AW is more suited to being 'upstairs'. his money management is second to none as his his use of self enforced limited resources especially as he's tactically weak. however after careful consideration i'm not sure.
AW has engineered almost complete control over how the club is run and is like most great managers (outside of football) for want of a better expression; a bit of a dictator/control freak/details junkie. i can see one a mile away as i suffer the same affliction. this, combined with total control can be very counter productive. the tunnel vision shown by AW that we have seen for at least the last 5 seasons being an example. bould should have been appointed 5 seasons ago frankly. defending is an inherent weakness of AW and he should have delegated that weakness/part of control to an expert and not interfered, which in my opinion is precisely what bould is. his appointment being more external pressure that has forced wengers hand, much like the last minute transfers mentioned above.
would he give up that influence and control and let a new guy bring in radical, expensive and potentially costly short term ideas relative to wengers philosophy? perhaps not. every successful dictator appoints their own successor, its the easiest way to retain indirect control. and AW will try and appoint his successor in his own image.
it may therefore be largely self defeating.
the biggest mistake most well run companies make is to think that key people aren't expendable/replaceable. they certainly are. history tells us as much. it all depends on the given objectives and whether the individual concerned is able to adapt. ferguson and mourinho are prime examples of managers being able to adapt to changing circumstances to survive and to win. and btw im not the type of ignorant gooner that cant appreciate ability in other teams. i can certainly respect ferguson for his frankly amazing ability to survive in real pressure. hes a marvel at that.
wenger has clearly shown over the last 7.5 seasons that he has been unable to adapt to the clubs improved status and financial clout and use that change to the clubs 'footballing' advantage. what makes you so sure at board level he would suddenly understand what it takes to win as a football club?
serious question....
the mistake AW made is to help create that environment but not fully capitalize on it 'because' of his beliefs that helped create it. its the typical flawed genius scenario. the idea of signing the one or two big name players that know how to win that are needed to fill the holes, stop the rot .... just doesn't come into play. its not an option. i maintain pressure beyond AW's control led to him doing last min deals on arteta and mertesacker especially when you consider the age and contract terms of the former. and these were not the types of player required that i refer to. flamini, cesc, rvp, nasri, pv4, th14 all knew how to win, some inherited that knowledge from the great double team. it filtered through. this knowledge and belief base has been dismantled by AW. its now playstation kids learning from playstation kids who probably don't even respect the senior players (poldolski excluded) as what have they won/achieved relative to the kids? counter productivity at its very best. unlike wenger i believe there has to be a strong hireachy of leadership for success. its what gets the young talent through the tough games.
the expensively assembled (expense being at the cost of pitch performance not just monetary) youth experiments that are cultured to fruition and then sold before their peak to drive AFC revenue takes priority to siging a 'mata' for example. the funds were there not to argue over what was effectively small change in the grand scheme of things.
i absolutely agree that AW is more suited to being 'upstairs'. his money management is second to none as his his use of self enforced limited resources especially as he's tactically weak. however after careful consideration i'm not sure.
AW has engineered almost complete control over how the club is run and is like most great managers (outside of football) for want of a better expression; a bit of a dictator/control freak/details junkie. i can see one a mile away as i suffer the same affliction. this, combined with total control can be very counter productive. the tunnel vision shown by AW that we have seen for at least the last 5 seasons being an example. bould should have been appointed 5 seasons ago frankly. defending is an inherent weakness of AW and he should have delegated that weakness/part of control to an expert and not interfered, which in my opinion is precisely what bould is. his appointment being more external pressure that has forced wengers hand, much like the last minute transfers mentioned above.
would he give up that influence and control and let a new guy bring in radical, expensive and potentially costly short term ideas relative to wengers philosophy? perhaps not. every successful dictator appoints their own successor, its the easiest way to retain indirect control. and AW will try and appoint his successor in his own image.
it may therefore be largely self defeating.
the biggest mistake most well run companies make is to think that key people aren't expendable/replaceable. they certainly are. history tells us as much. it all depends on the given objectives and whether the individual concerned is able to adapt. ferguson and mourinho are prime examples of managers being able to adapt to changing circumstances to survive and to win. and btw im not the type of ignorant gooner that cant appreciate ability in other teams. i can certainly respect ferguson for his frankly amazing ability to survive in real pressure. hes a marvel at that.
wenger has clearly shown over the last 7.5 seasons that he has been unable to adapt to the clubs improved status and financial clout and use that change to the clubs 'footballing' advantage. what makes you so sure at board level he would suddenly understand what it takes to win as a football club?
serious question....
mylesmcd said:
I think we agree that the next manager will have some epic talent to work with and if this is meshed with some good buys in the right areas, we could really dominate like we have before.
Do I think Wenger has had his time? No. I would love to see him move upstairs. Bring in someone who is a tactically gifted coach, let Wenger work on Talent and Youth Development and fundamentally bring in a deal closer who can get us the targets we spot (Juan Mata springs to mind)
What I do object to is the feeling that Wenger is in it for the Salary, or the strong negative feeling towards him (AlpaHorn for a start) He HAS the best interests of the club at heart, he HAS done a fantastic job and STILL has work left to do. His hands have been tied by financial constraints that have lead this very gifted man to HAVE to steer a club through difficult times...an he has done so very well.
I think we both want the same thing here, we differ on opinion of how best to go about it!
I would like to see him move upstairs in 2 years time, with a new tactically minded manager moving in. Let AW look after player development and youth spotting and bring in someone who will back him in the transfer market. I listened to a great podcast on AW and D.Deins time at the club. It pointed out that Wenger spotted players and Dein was the slightly more cavalier deal closer who persued a little harder than AW or the current lad. I would like to see this kind of set up returning.
Do I think Wenger has had his time? No. I would love to see him move upstairs. Bring in someone who is a tactically gifted coach, let Wenger work on Talent and Youth Development and fundamentally bring in a deal closer who can get us the targets we spot (Juan Mata springs to mind)
What I do object to is the feeling that Wenger is in it for the Salary, or the strong negative feeling towards him (AlpaHorn for a start) He HAS the best interests of the club at heart, he HAS done a fantastic job and STILL has work left to do. His hands have been tied by financial constraints that have lead this very gifted man to HAVE to steer a club through difficult times...an he has done so very well.
I think we both want the same thing here, we differ on opinion of how best to go about it!
I would like to see him move upstairs in 2 years time, with a new tactically minded manager moving in. Let AW look after player development and youth spotting and bring in someone who will back him in the transfer market. I listened to a great podcast on AW and D.Deins time at the club. It pointed out that Wenger spotted players and Dein was the slightly more cavalier deal closer who persued a little harder than AW or the current lad. I would like to see this kind of set up returning.
Edited by bobo on Friday 26th October 10:58
- at the risk of extensive reposting, I wont quote*
It is also worth noting, that of all the players who have left in recent times, the vast majority are Darren Dein's clients....
I dont disagree with the most of what you are saying, tbf, but I do take issue with (not nessesarily by you) the hatred of a man who has the clubs interest at heart...
bobo said:
I maintain pressure beyond AW's control led to him doing last min deals on arteta and mertesacker especially when you consider the age and contract terms of the former. and these were not the types of player required that i refer to. flamini, cesc, rvp, nasri, th14 all knew how to win, some inherited that knowledge from the great double team. it filtered through. this knowledge and belief base has been dismantled by AW. its now playstation kids learning from playstation kids who probably don't even respect the senior players (poldolski excluded) as what have they won/achieved relative to the kids?
bobo said:
bould should have been appointed 5 seasons ago frankly. defending is an inherent weakness of AW and he should have delegated that weakness/part of control to an expert and not interfered, which in my opinion is precisely what bould is. his appointment being more external pressure that has forced wengers hand, much like the last minute transfers mentioned above.
I think these are two very valid points. It has been said before, but the most intelligent person is not always the one with the most knowledge, but the person who recognises their own weaknesses and knows exactly where to aquire the knowledge/outside expertise to deal with these weaknesses.
At times AW comes across as that person too stubborn to ask for help for fear of it reflecting poorly upon himself.
my mistake... i still think the same applies though.
he wouldn't go for it as lets face it, its a massive downgrade for a guy thats built up the brand himself.
he wouldn't go for it as lets face it, its a massive downgrade for a guy thats built up the brand himself.
mylesmcd said:
*at the risk of extensive reposting, I wont quote*
I think he would be better suited to a Youth Development Role, not a Chair Person role. My preference would be to remove Stan and let Uzi come in as COB, maybe bringing back Dein. (maybe)
I think he would be better suited to a Youth Development Role, not a Chair Person role. My preference would be to remove Stan and let Uzi come in as COB, maybe bringing back Dein. (maybe)
bobo said:
my mistake... i still think the same applies though.
he wouldn't go for it as lets face it, its a massive downgrade for a guy thats built up the brand himself.
No, neither do I. It would be demotion to him.he wouldn't go for it as lets face it, its a massive downgrade for a guy thats built up the brand himself.
mylesmcd said:
*at the risk of extensive reposting, I wont quote*
I think he would be better suited to a Youth Development Role, not a Chair Person role. My preference would be to remove Stan and let Uzi come in as COB, maybe bringing back Dein. (maybe)
I think he would be better suited to a Youth Development Role, not a Chair Person role. My preference would be to remove Stan and let Uzi come in as COB, maybe bringing back Dein. (maybe)
Contract negotiation is a huge issue for me. We have come too close to too many great players and missed out because of contract negotiation that it would be the first place I would start. As per a previous point, Dein was the one who did many great things on behalf of Wenger....the "a f
k it, lets go the extra million...." guy who sealed deals that Wenger otherwise wouldn't. Once he left, we stopped making the great signings we once did. Maybe it was the combination that was great, not just AW himself....People looking at outing Wenger quite simply need to look at the budget.....i.e. wages and transfers fees that Arsenal spend compared to everyone else. End of the day Arsenal's budget is that a a fourth or fifth placed which is where Wenger manages to finish every year. Has Wenger won anything ? No. Should he have won an FA Cup or League Cup in the last eight years ? Absolutely. The fact we have even had a sniff of winning the PL in that time on the budget we have is actually quite an achievement.
It's not Wenger that needs to go it's the board. The self sustaining model was thought up in times pre Chelsea and Man City....they changed the game and Arsenal didn't respond. Man U responded by building commercial revenues. Maybe FFP will make Arsenal competitive again....trouble is that the board seem to have put all their eggs in that basket.
It's not Wenger that needs to go it's the board. The self sustaining model was thought up in times pre Chelsea and Man City....they changed the game and Arsenal didn't respond. Man U responded by building commercial revenues. Maybe FFP will make Arsenal competitive again....trouble is that the board seem to have put all their eggs in that basket.
Cheib said:
People looking at outing Wenger quite simply need to look at the budget.....i.e. wages and transfers fees that Arsenal spend compared to everyone else. End of the day Arsenal's budget is that a a fourth or fifth placed which is where Wenger manages to finish every year. Has Wenger won anything ? No. Should he have won an FA Cup or League Cup in the last eight years ? Absolutely. The fact we have even had a sniff of winning the PL in that time on the budget we have is actually quite an achievement.
It's not Wenger that needs to go it's the board. The self sustaining model was thought up in times pre Chelsea and Man City....they changed the game and Arsenal didn't respond. Man U responded by building commercial revenues. Maybe FFP will make Arsenal competitive again....trouble is that the board seem to have put all their eggs in that basket.
I agree. It is a good point about Man U and Chelsea changing the game also.It's not Wenger that needs to go it's the board. The self sustaining model was thought up in times pre Chelsea and Man City....they changed the game and Arsenal didn't respond. Man U responded by building commercial revenues. Maybe FFP will make Arsenal competitive again....trouble is that the board seem to have put all their eggs in that basket.
the board? so why is it that when the board announce that there are significant transfer fees available wenger doesn't go out and spend every penny to reinforce the club?
Cheib said:
People looking at outing Wenger quite simply need to look at the budget.....i.e. wages and transfers fees that Arsenal spend compared to everyone else. End of the day Arsenal's budget is that a a fourth or fifth placed which is where Wenger manages to finish every year. Has Wenger won anything ? No. Should he have won an FA Cup or League Cup in the last eight years ? Absolutely. The fact we have even had a sniff of winning the PL in that time on the budget we have is actually quite an achievement.
It's not Wenger that needs to go it's the board. The self sustaining model was thought up in times pre Chelsea and Man City....they changed the game and Arsenal didn't respond. Man U responded by building commercial revenues. Maybe FFP will make Arsenal competitive again....trouble is that the board seem to have put all their eggs in that basket.
It's not Wenger that needs to go it's the board. The self sustaining model was thought up in times pre Chelsea and Man City....they changed the game and Arsenal didn't respond. Man U responded by building commercial revenues. Maybe FFP will make Arsenal competitive again....trouble is that the board seem to have put all their eggs in that basket.
bobo said:
the board? so why is it that when the board announce that there are significant transfer fees available wenger doesn't go out and spend every penny to reinforce the club?
I see it as a smoke screen. I heard at one stage there was 91m in the short term account.Cheib said:
People looking at outing Wenger quite simply need to look at the budget.....i.e. wages and transfers fees that Arsenal spend compared to everyone else. End of the day Arsenal's budget is that a a fourth or fifth placed which is where Wenger manages to finish every year. Has Wenger won anything ? No. Should he have won an FA Cup or League Cup in the last eight years ? Absolutely. The fact we have even had a sniff of winning the PL in that time on the budget we have is actually quite an achievement.
It's not Wenger that needs to go it's the board. The self sustaining model was thought up in times pre Chelsea and Man City....they changed the game and Arsenal didn't respond. Man U responded by building commercial revenues. Maybe FFP will make Arsenal competitive again....trouble is that the board seem to have put all their eggs in that basket.
It's not Wenger that needs to go it's the board. The self sustaining model was thought up in times pre Chelsea and Man City....they changed the game and Arsenal didn't respond. Man U responded by building commercial revenues. Maybe FFP will make Arsenal competitive again....trouble is that the board seem to have put all their eggs in that basket.
91m......Erickson, van der Weil, llorente....and neymar.
Sorry, it's been a long day.
bobo said:
the board? so why is it that when the board announce that there are significant transfer fees available wenger doesn't go out and spend every penny to reinforce the club?
Because they are lying? It is a lot easier for them to say that there are 'Significant' funds available to the press and fans and then to tell Wenger the real budget. Which as we know from previous spend windows is to break even or make profit on transfers.
Gassing Station | Football | Top of Page | What's New | My Stuff