Truck turning circle - URGENT HELP PLEASE!
Discussion
Hi All,
Rather a long an unpleasant story behind all this that I won't bore you with but I need to calculate the kerb to kerb turning circle for a rigid body truck.
At the moment I know that it has a swept turning circle of 15.8, which I assume is like the wall to wall turning circle. It's 8m long but 2.13m wide with a wheel base of 4.35m. The only dimension I don't know is the distance from the front to the front axle centre line which seems quite crucial but for the time being I'm guessing 1.5m.
Here's a pic of what I've got so far:
Am I right to assume that the center of rotation is the rear axle axis, or am I well off?
The truck in question is an Iveco 0816 model - actually a horsebox - if anyone knows any actual data on this model that would be great as the 15.8m swept circle data is from a 0813 model apparently which has a slightly longer wheelbase as well at 4.375m.
Thanks all!!
Rob
Rather a long an unpleasant story behind all this that I won't bore you with but I need to calculate the kerb to kerb turning circle for a rigid body truck.
At the moment I know that it has a swept turning circle of 15.8, which I assume is like the wall to wall turning circle. It's 8m long but 2.13m wide with a wheel base of 4.35m. The only dimension I don't know is the distance from the front to the front axle centre line which seems quite crucial but for the time being I'm guessing 1.5m.
Here's a pic of what I've got so far:
Am I right to assume that the center of rotation is the rear axle axis, or am I well off?
The truck in question is an Iveco 0816 model - actually a horsebox - if anyone knows any actual data on this model that would be great as the 15.8m swept circle data is from a 0813 model apparently which has a slightly longer wheelbase as well at 4.375m.
Thanks all!!
Rob
Thanks guys, all good points.
Here's my problem. I need to show that this lorry could complete a 180degree manouvre in a 12m wide (kerb to kerb) space. Now I know it can because I saw it, unfortunately I don't have any data that can back this up at present.
Basically what happened is the box was being turned around on an A road making use of a layby on the opposite carriage so that the manouvre could be done in one go, an extended U turn in effect, road was 5m wide, the layby 7m deep. Unfortunately half way through the turn a motorcycle ended up crashing in to the rear passenger wheel and life has gone down hill from there. Here's in effect the sequence of events:
1: turn is started
2: as lorry reached this position motorcycle appeared and went in to rear wheel.
Police were called and a few passersby stopped.
This position can be confirmed as the rear axle was still in the left lane when the bike hit, with the lorry perpendicular to the carriage way.
3: lorry was moved forward slightly to allow vehicles to pass behind it and get on there way.
4: lorry was finally moved in to layby (facing the wrong way unfortunately).
At no stage was the lorry reversed to assist the manouvres.
So this is where it gets tricky, as to be able to complete these turns the lorry needs a turning circle of no more than 11m according to my scale drawings which just seems a bit mad. This is where not having exact details for the lorry is really causing a problem, as using the data I've got the minimum turning circle (kerb to kerb) I can get is 13.8m. We've now been able to establish that the fron axle is 94cm behind the front of the cab.
The owner is having a look in it's manual again though to see if there is any specs to help.
Is 11m even conceivable for a kerb to kerb turning circle for a lorry of this size? I figured my BMWs to be 9.6m, which matches up with my driving experience, and that's a fair bit smaller than the lorry!!
Cheers,
Rob
Here's my problem. I need to show that this lorry could complete a 180degree manouvre in a 12m wide (kerb to kerb) space. Now I know it can because I saw it, unfortunately I don't have any data that can back this up at present.
Basically what happened is the box was being turned around on an A road making use of a layby on the opposite carriage so that the manouvre could be done in one go, an extended U turn in effect, road was 5m wide, the layby 7m deep. Unfortunately half way through the turn a motorcycle ended up crashing in to the rear passenger wheel and life has gone down hill from there. Here's in effect the sequence of events:
1: turn is started
2: as lorry reached this position motorcycle appeared and went in to rear wheel.
Police were called and a few passersby stopped.
This position can be confirmed as the rear axle was still in the left lane when the bike hit, with the lorry perpendicular to the carriage way.
3: lorry was moved forward slightly to allow vehicles to pass behind it and get on there way.
4: lorry was finally moved in to layby (facing the wrong way unfortunately).
At no stage was the lorry reversed to assist the manouvres.
So this is where it gets tricky, as to be able to complete these turns the lorry needs a turning circle of no more than 11m according to my scale drawings which just seems a bit mad. This is where not having exact details for the lorry is really causing a problem, as using the data I've got the minimum turning circle (kerb to kerb) I can get is 13.8m. We've now been able to establish that the fron axle is 94cm behind the front of the cab.
The owner is having a look in it's manual again though to see if there is any specs to help.
Is 11m even conceivable for a kerb to kerb turning circle for a lorry of this size? I figured my BMWs to be 9.6m, which matches up with my driving experience, and that's a fair bit smaller than the lorry!!
Cheers,
Rob
Luckily the biker walked away as he dropped his bike about 20m away and slid under the rear of the lorry as his bike embedded itself in the rear wheel.
The biker was on the right carriage way, travelling down the page so to speak. I kinda doubt the bike would've made any difference to the location of the lorry though, 7.5tons plus 0.5ton horse plus junk in back versus not very heavy bike?
Cheers,
Rob
The biker was on the right carriage way, travelling down the page so to speak. I kinda doubt the bike would've made any difference to the location of the lorry though, 7.5tons plus 0.5ton horse plus junk in back versus not very heavy bike?
Cheers,
Rob
Yep, and there in lies the mystery as I saw it complete the manouvres without the lorry leaving the tarmac at any stage, it's a toughy isn't it 
The owners have agreed to take it out tomorrow though and photograph it doing some turns which will hopefully clear some things up.
Cheers,
Rob
The owners have agreed to take it out tomorrow though and photograph it doing some turns which will hopefully clear some things up.
Cheers,
Rob
The reason to get all hung up about whether the turn could be made between the curbs is the Police are insisting that it wouldn't be possible, it would have to be a 3 or 5 point turn. This is despite them being present when the lorry was moved fully in to the layby as in diagram 4.
As for the speed of the bike, well we're talking 11pm on a Sunday, clear country A road. Speed limit of 50mph and a 1000cc bike, read in to that what you will but I can guarantee it wasn't 50mph. The road was pretty straight from his direction, unfortunately the lorry is dark green, although with a large yellow strip along its side, so the headlamps and hazards would not be that visible at the time he arrived and the lorry was perpendicular to the road.
The driver is being prosecuted for dangerous driving (trial on Monday so we're slightly up against it!!). The DD charge is not because of the biker hitting the lorry but because of a slight hill and bend in the road in the direction the lorry was travelling - opposite to the motorcycles path. Strangely though no one else crashed in to the lorry, while it was still across the road and we were waiting for the police to arrive, from either direction.
It's debatable as to whether being able to prove the lorry was capable of completing the turn in one go will make any difference if the focus is really placed on the location of the manouvre. We shall see I guess.
Cheers,
Rob
As for the speed of the bike, well we're talking 11pm on a Sunday, clear country A road. Speed limit of 50mph and a 1000cc bike, read in to that what you will but I can guarantee it wasn't 50mph. The road was pretty straight from his direction, unfortunately the lorry is dark green, although with a large yellow strip along its side, so the headlamps and hazards would not be that visible at the time he arrived and the lorry was perpendicular to the road.
The driver is being prosecuted for dangerous driving (trial on Monday so we're slightly up against it!!). The DD charge is not because of the biker hitting the lorry but because of a slight hill and bend in the road in the direction the lorry was travelling - opposite to the motorcycles path. Strangely though no one else crashed in to the lorry, while it was still across the road and we were waiting for the police to arrive, from either direction.
It's debatable as to whether being able to prove the lorry was capable of completing the turn in one go will make any difference if the focus is really placed on the location of the manouvre. We shall see I guess.
Cheers,
Rob
Yep, I have to say I agree with you all. Barring any amazing discoveries today by the lorry owners as they do some test turns and take pics, I think I will not bother presenting this turning circle as evidence and leave it to the jury to decide.
The horse was fine as well, in fact she was happy as Larry the whole journey and only got a bit annoyed when the police car arrived with it's blues flashing. She was even fine when the lorry had to be jacked up to replace the damaged rear tyre. And this is a young ex-race thorugh bred mare who was normally a bit scatty
Thanks all!
Rob
>> Edited by B19GRR on Sunday 24th April 12:00
The horse was fine as well, in fact she was happy as Larry the whole journey and only got a bit annoyed when the police car arrived with it's blues flashing. She was even fine when the lorry had to be jacked up to replace the damaged rear tyre. And this is a young ex-race thorugh bred mare who was normally a bit scatty
Thanks all!
Rob
>> Edited by B19GRR on Sunday 24th April 12:00
Ah well, the result is in already. The first thing the judge said was "why is this a DD charge as according to both prosecution and defence statements, visibility was at least 150yds in both directions which is more than adequate." He then told the prosecution to go and reconsider the charge as careless which the driver had always offered.
Upshot was a guilty plea to careless, 8pts and £850 fine/costs. It was accepted by both sides that the lorry couldn't have made the turn so as I suspected figuring the turning circle never really came in to play. Got to say the driver was incredibly lucky to have got away without a disqualification.
Of interest though is the lorry owners did do some test turns and did get the lorry to do a 180degree turn in a 13.15m space, cunningly confounding all my calculations.
Anyway, thanks for all you help/thoughts, glad it's all over now!
Cheers,
Rob
Upshot was a guilty plea to careless, 8pts and £850 fine/costs. It was accepted by both sides that the lorry couldn't have made the turn so as I suspected figuring the turning circle never really came in to play. Got to say the driver was incredibly lucky to have got away without a disqualification.
Of interest though is the lorry owners did do some test turns and did get the lorry to do a 180degree turn in a 13.15m space, cunningly confounding all my calculations.
Anyway, thanks for all you help/thoughts, glad it's all over now!
Cheers,
Rob
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