100kg of fuel

[rdjohn]

But if the ECU decides to apply the disc brake, that energy is lost forever and not harvested.

[thiscocks]

The ecu doesn't decide to brake, the driver does

[Likes Fast Cars]

Sure, I understand the need to make the sport attractive for manufactuers, etc., etc., but I just have this nagging feeling that the "racing" will be a little artificial. As some have said, we're likely to see most of the "racing" towards the end of each race. The rules and regs seem to be getting a little too prescriptive (IMO).

[Megaflow]

thiscocks said:

The ecu doesn't decide to brake, the driver does

Yes, and no. The driver decides to brake, presses the pedal and operates the front brakes. The ECU now decides if it wants to use the brakes for the rear axle or KERS harvesting. There is no longer a direct connection between the brake pedal and rear brakes.

I think this year is going to be fantastic, people have been moaning for years that it is becoming too much of an aero formula, well it very much isn't this year. As well as all the new technology, power train development is also back. Only 20%, IIRC, of the power train os frozen, which basically amounts to the core engine structure, the rest is open, next year it goes up, the year after, etc.

[garycat]

rev-erend said:

There could be plenty of cars running out of fuel with a few laps to go.

Cant wait to hear Rob Smedley telling Philippe bady to conserve fuel and not race.

Did Smedley go to Williams?

[MartG]

Likes Fast Cars said:

Sure, I understand the need to make the sport attractive for manufactuers, etc., etc., but I just have this nagging feeling that the "racing" will be a little artificial. As some have said, we're likely to see most of the "racing" towards the end of each race. The rules and regs seem to be getting a little too prescriptive (IMO).

It could end up like those cycle races where everyone goes as slow as possible until the last two laps - BORING !

[Teppic]

garycat said:

rev-erend said:

There could be plenty of cars running out of fuel with a few laps to go.

Cant wait to hear Rob Smedley telling Philippe bady to conserve fuel and not race.

Did Smedley go to Williams?

Ted confirmed in his Testing Notebook yesterday that Smedley is going to Williams.

[rdjohn]

thiscocks said:

The ecu doesn't decide to brake, the driver does

thiscocks said:

The ecu doesn't decide to brake, the driver does

The ECU decides virtually everything, that is the point of the power train and having only 100kg of fuel.

The mandatory rear brake-by-wire decides what harvesting is required and how hard to apply disc braking. Watching the cars through the chicane which follow a very short straight it was pretty evident that
Driver lifts-off, full supply is cut, ERS-K is activated.
Driver dabs brakes to regulate entry speed
Driver presses throttle, fuel is supplied to 3 cylinders and KERS starts to deliver modest power, through the combined S of the chicane.
As driver applies more throttle all 6 cylinders fire and full KERS fire it along the next straight.
At the entry to the elbow on to the main straight driver is braking hard dropping down the box in equal steps which included electronic engine blips which seems to be the only waste of fuel. But then when the driver came off the brakes the ERS-K is still braking the car so the back wheels were locking up as virtually all downforce has disappeared.

All this is happening under full electronic control as the red light that indicates that torque is changing is flashing all the time. Every gear change it flashes and so looks like a pretty useless bit of kit.

Magnusson was pretty fast from the off. When you listened to his McLaren doing what I have just described, you would have thought that it was his first time in any sort of race car. The lack of clean engine noise between initial lift off and getting going on the straight seems to be forever.

The slow corner before the chicane the KERS comes in so quickly the back end often steps out and the driver has to catch it. Ricardo was only pottering around, but even then he nearly lost the back end so prodigious is the grunt from KERS - which now operates without any driver input, only ECU.

Programming the power train maps for the race and switchable for each corner is where these races will won, or lost.

[bagman13]

I am really worried about the fuel limit, last thing I want to see if F1 cars hyper mileing around a racetrack.

Mclaren ought to have a big advantage in the ecu area, as they make them for every F1 car.

[slipstream 1985]

just had a thought. if before the teams used to short their cars on fuel assuming a safety car period etc but then have to fuel save will having 100kg of fuel in actually be more than enough with the ammount of incidents and retirements we are expecting?

Also for that matter if the FIA got fed up of a boring processional race where everyone is saving fuel colnd for next year they not make the minimum ammount of fuel more than the cars could possibly need thus forcing them to drive flat out to use up the fuel and make the race more interesting?

[Exige77]

Does anyone know how many Kgs of Fuel the last of the previous generation monster turbo F1 cars were allowed to use ?

I remember many cars running out of fuel when the fuel qty was limited.

[Jimmm]

Exige77 said:

Does anyone know how many Kgs of Fuel the last of the previous generation monster turbo F1 cars were allowed to use ?

I remember many cars running out of fuel when the fuel qty was limited.

The MP4/4 had a 150 litre tank. Which I think works out at about 110kg for pump petrol no idea of weight of race fuel though.

Edited by Jimmm on Thursday 13th March 17:05

[rdjohn]

They typically ran about 160kgs last year, dependent on circuit. Monaco less, Monza more etc.

[Exige77]

Found it.

1988 Boost pressure further reduced to a maximum of 2.5 bars to limit the power output of the turbo engines in their final year, maximum fuel consumption of turbo cars reduced to 155 litres per race. In any design the drivers feet must not extend beyond the front wheel axle, static crash test of survival cell and fuel cell mandatory, minimum weight of cars increased to 540 kg.[

[Jimmm]

Exige77 said:

Found it.

1988 Boost pressure further reduced to a maximum of 2.5 bars to limit the power output of the turbo engines in their final year, maximum fuel consumption of turbo cars reduced to 155 litres per race. In any design the drivers feet must not extend beyond the front wheel axle, static crash test of survival cell and fuel cell mandatory, minimum weight of cars increased to 540 kg.[

The year before that they were running at 4 bar with ~200 litre tanks.

[Exige77]

1984 In race refuelling outlawed, fuel tank required to be in centre of car, between driver and engine, maximum fuel capacity allowed on cars set at 220 litres per race to try and reduce the output of turbo engines, drivers required to have FIA super licence before they can compete in F1, concrete retaining walls permitted alongside guard rails.[

That's quite a reduction from 220 Ltrs to 155 Ltrs.

no wonder so many ran out early in the season.