The Official 2018 Chinese Grand Prix Thread **SPOILERS**
Discussion
Dr Z said:
Turbojuice said:
Gad-Westy said:
SmoothCriminal said:
I still can't work out what reason Merc had for leaving Lewis out there.
No way on any prediction could I see any advantage of staying out on old tyres.
They must have seen red bull come out and even if ric stayed out he would have lost one position on track.
Why on earth would you not take a free pit Stop.
Was wondering the same thing. Although I guess he may have lost a place to Kimi as well? Can't remember exactly how it was stacked up at the time. Either way, it just seemed like Red Bull were alert and ready to react. Didn't get the impression Merc even considered it.No way on any prediction could I see any advantage of staying out on old tyres.
They must have seen red bull come out and even if ric stayed out he would have lost one position on track.
Why on earth would you not take a free pit Stop.
He had done only 12 laps on the medium tyre which was reckoned to be able to do thrice that number of laps, and going by friday long runs, there wasn't much in it between the two tyre compounds in terms of lap time. It was just too early to pit. Hamilton had another used set of Softs, which they could have used if the Merc pitwall had thought that the tyre performance will differ by that much at that time. What RB did was simply a gamble, IMO.
I was watching the race live on Sky and di Resta picked up on an aspect that could help RB, he mentioned that sometimes when the tyres cool during an SC period, it will be difficult to fire it back up once you get going. These were the tyre working ranges:
Note how the top end of the working range of the ultra soft is still at the low end of the soft and medium tyres. My hypothesis goes thus: in order to not overheat the ultra softs, the setup would have compromised a little bit and so would have relied on the driver to keep the medium tyre (which only switches on right at the top end of the ultra soft), switched on and working, through a race stint. This is more critical for the medium tyre, while the soft has more of a margin on it (as the working range has some overlap with the ultra soft).
Once the safety car came out, the medium tyres would have cooled but it is likely that as the medium running cars went through the twisty sector 2, the aero loads generated there would have fired it back up, however the long back straight in this track is known to cool the tyres, so I imagine some of the medium tyre'd cars were trapped in a vicious cycle of not-quite-hot/sliding over a lap. This can cause thermal degradation with the tyre compound never delivering the grip level it is supposed to when it's fired up properly from new and kept on the boil. Also, more tread on the tyre = better able to retain heat and thus switch on. Hence, Kimi able to switch it on and keep it working better than some others after SC as he had pitted much later than others.
That's my take on it, anyhow. I don't believe the teams were in this situation before with these new tyres.
Edited by Dr Z on Sunday 15th April 22:10
I guess another reason for Merc not switching is that they will not disadvantage one of their drivers by splitting their strategy for the other. BOT was higher in qualifying and could not switch so QED HAM was also stuck with the Medium, despite having sufficient time to make the call and no less of track position.
It always looked like RB were going to 2-stop. They just got lucky and had one for free.
rdjohn said:
I guess another reason for Merc not switching is that they will not disadvantage one of their drivers by splitting their strategy for the other. BOT was higher in qualifying and could not switch so QED HAM was also stuck with the Medium, despite having sufficient time to make the call and no less of track position.
If that's true then it's quite remarkable in shooting themselves in the foot. Such a policy might have worked when they were clearly the best team, and they usually had only themselves to beat, but it won't work when you have other teams in the mix. It effectively lumbers both cars with the worst strategy, with no flexibility to change.Thinking about it, I think some of Mercedes' weak strategy calls have come from the fact that they had three years of being so far ahead of everyone else that they didn't need to play any real strategy to beat them. They don't seem to have that killer instinct that RBR and some others have.
i've just watched the race.
mercedes are leaden with their strategy. how they missed the opportunity to pit hamilton under the safety car, i don't know.
They had a similar opportunity to undercut vettel last time when ferrari screwed their pit stop up but they didn't take that either.
they lost australia by messing up strategy too.
mercedes' car isn't working at it's best yet but they are missing out on results with poor strategic decision making.
mercedes are leaden with their strategy. how they missed the opportunity to pit hamilton under the safety car, i don't know.
They had a similar opportunity to undercut vettel last time when ferrari screwed their pit stop up but they didn't take that either.
they lost australia by messing up strategy too.
mercedes' car isn't working at it's best yet but they are missing out on results with poor strategic decision making.
sirtyro said:
Gary29 said:
Lewis to retire at the end of the season and Danny Ric to take his seat.
I dont think so. I think Danny Ric will take Bottas seat and become the Merc number 1 once Lewis does retire, which I think will be in 3 seasons time.I'd be very surprised if Lewis keeps going for another three years. He's already been talking about the things he wants to do when he retires, and several other past drivers have said that as soon as you start to think about life after F1 it's hard to keep focussed and you're basically done, as F1 demands 100% of your attention. He may want to try to get a fifth title, and if he gets it this year he could quit while on top. Equally, if he doesn't win it and if Mercedes start to slip clearly behind Ferrari and RBR then that might be enough for him to quit sooner rather than later. It just depends how hungry he is, and he doesn't look particularly hungry at the moment.
thegreenhell said:
rdjohn said:
I guess another reason for Merc not switching is that they will not disadvantage one of their drivers by splitting their strategy for the other. BOT was higher in qualifying and could not switch so QED HAM was also stuck with the Medium, despite having sufficient time to make the call and no less of track position.
If that's true then it's quite remarkable in shooting themselves in the foot. Such a policy might have worked when they were clearly the best team, and they usually had only themselves to beat, but it won't work when you have other teams in the mix. It effectively lumbers both cars with the worst strategy, with no flexibility to change.Thinking about it, I think some of Mercedes' weak strategy calls have come from the fact that they had three years of being so far ahead of everyone else that they didn't need to play any real strategy to beat them. They don't seem to have that killer instinct that RBR and some others have.
If Merc/Ferrari had done something and come off worse, they'd be hammered left/right/centre.
thegreenhell said:
Ric isn't going to move to a team where he isn't at least on equal status with the other driver, not at this stage of his career. Merc don't operate a clear number 1-2 policy, so this might suit him, and I don't think he'd fear being directly up against Hamilton. This is the main reason why I don't think he'll go to Ferrari, especially after the way they left Kimi out to dry in this race. As long as Vettel is there he will be top dog in the team, and no other ambitious driver will go there.
I'd be very surprised if Lewis keeps going for another three years. He's already been talking about the things he wants to do when he retires, and several other past drivers have said that as soon as you start to think about life after F1 it's hard to keep focussed and you're basically done, as F1 demands 100% of your attention. He may want to try to get a fifth title, and if he gets it this year he could quit while on top. Equally, if he doesn't win it and if Mercedes start to slip clearly behind Ferrari and RBR then that might be enough for him to quit sooner rather than later. It just depends how hungry he is, and he doesn't look particularly hungry at the moment.
That's my reading of it. He looks like he did in 2011 - out of sorts.I'd be very surprised if Lewis keeps going for another three years. He's already been talking about the things he wants to do when he retires, and several other past drivers have said that as soon as you start to think about life after F1 it's hard to keep focussed and you're basically done, as F1 demands 100% of your attention. He may want to try to get a fifth title, and if he gets it this year he could quit while on top. Equally, if he doesn't win it and if Mercedes start to slip clearly behind Ferrari and RBR then that might be enough for him to quit sooner rather than later. It just depends how hungry he is, and he doesn't look particularly hungry at the moment.
You lot need to look back at Hamilton's form during previous seasons, he has some iffy weekends at the start while he gels with the car and then when a competitor begins to build a championship points advantage, bang! focussed and determined Hamilton shows up. Bottas out-perfomed Hamilton at the beginning of 2017 to a similar degree (yes I am aware that due to a very poor Australia Bottas is behind Hamilton in the standings)
HustleRussell said:
Is anybody else becoming suspicious on account of the Hamilton / Vettel love-in?
Vaud said:
No. Vettel has learned in the last year.
glazbagun said:
A conspiriacy against Max you mean?
I don't see it. Seb has always had trouble handling Max (and said a lot worse than calling someone a d
head!) and Lewis has always had the hump with anyone who goes after him. A couple of years ago it was Rosberg/Hamilton and Max/Seb tripping each other up, now that there seems to be a bit more parity, they're tripping up over the same people..
I don't see it. Seb has always had trouble handling Max (and said a lot worse than calling someone a d
head!) and Lewis has always had the hump with anyone who goes after him. A couple of years ago it was Rosberg/Hamilton and Max/Seb tripping each other up, now that there seems to be a bit more parity, they're tripping up over the same people..mondeomk4 said:
It seems to me they were both content to line up Verstappen for a time penalty.
It was Verstappen’s term-mate who benefitted though, I think there is some justice in that.
We're all thinking along different lines, I was thinking firstly are HAM and VET buddying up as future team-mates? Past Ferrari form would suggest not. but...It was Verstappen’s term-mate who benefitted though, I think there is some justice in that.
I can totally imagine Hamilton wanting to finish his F1 career with a stint at Ferrari, and what if Vettel wanted to Rosberg Hamilton?
Secondly, deep political alignment between Mercedes and Ferrari? When are they going to start throwing their weight around re: proposed budget caps, regulation changes etc.
rev-erend said:
My predections:
Looks like another Merc vs Ferrari head to head.
Kimi really seems to be on form and may spring a surprise. If he is allowed.
Verstappen will probably do some thing desparete again.. any bets he takes someone with him ?
A honda engined car will loose an engine.
Another McLaren team reshuffle after the weekend if results are poor
So, did any come True..Looks like another Merc vs Ferrari head to head.
Kimi really seems to be on form and may spring a surprise. If he is allowed.
Verstappen will probably do some thing desparete again.. any bets he takes someone with him ?
A honda engined car will loose an engine.
Another McLaren team reshuffle after the weekend if results are poor
Merc vs Ferrari .. yep. For some of the race but how the mighty have fallen.
Kimi - stella all weekend, got to taste the Champagne but on did not win.
Verstappen .. desparete seems to be his middle name. The honey badger is showing him how to overtake and win.
Honda engined cars .. one DNF and an 18th place .. I rest my case.
McLaren 7th and 13th .. guess Boulier gets to keep his job for a while longer
Also, is it just me or is Hulkenberg's stock going up this season?
Alonso and Hulkenberg tied on 22 points
Vandoorne 6, Sainz 3?
No DNFs among this Renault propelled quartet.
Perez continuing to ps off his team-mate, generally an underrated driver I feel, but pissing off his team mates seems to be a recurring theme (yes I know Ocon hasn't always been blameless)
Alonso and Hulkenberg tied on 22 points
Vandoorne 6, Sainz 3?
No DNFs among this Renault propelled quartet.
Perez continuing to p
s off his team-mate, generally an underrated driver I feel, but pissing off his team mates seems to be a recurring theme (yes I know Ocon hasn't always been blameless)
HustleRussell said:
We're all thinking along different lines, I was thinking firstly are HAM and VET buddying up as future team-mates? Past Ferrari form would suggest not. but...
I can totally imagine Hamilton wanting to finish his F1 career with a stint at Ferrari, and what if Vettel wanted to Rosberg Hamilton?
Secondly, deep political alignment between Mercedes and Ferrari? When are they going to start throwing their weight around re: proposed budget caps, regulation changes etc.
I just think Vettel is being smarter about the psychological aspects of the sport; he does respect Hamilton and aside from Baku I think Hamilton respects Vettel. Great way to disarm your competition is to defend them and say nice things about them. I can totally imagine Hamilton wanting to finish his F1 career with a stint at Ferrari, and what if Vettel wanted to Rosberg Hamilton?
Secondly, deep political alignment between Mercedes and Ferrari? When are they going to start throwing their weight around re: proposed budget caps, regulation changes etc.
Merc are so out of practice in reacting to things because they've been so dominant they are now making the wrong decisions when they don't have the fastest car.
Red Bull are the team who have had to fight the most recently for the wins, they've not had the fastest so have become very good at making race changing decisions.
If the season continues to be topsy turvy i expect RBR to win more races and max will eventually come good.
Red Bull are the team who have had to fight the most recently for the wins, they've not had the fastest so have become very good at making race changing decisions.
If the season continues to be topsy turvy i expect RBR to win more races and max will eventually come good.
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