Ecclestone docuseries out this month
Discussion
Regardless of anyone's opinion of him (and many of those who have an opinion have no actual knowledge or context on which to base it) there would be no F1 for us to be enjoying if it wasn't for Bernie.
He not only monetised it so Teams could survive but he also insisted on circuit quality, tv coverage quality .
Like him or loathe him, he IS responsible for F1 existing as a wealthy successful sport
He not only monetised it so Teams could survive but he also insisted on circuit quality, tv coverage quality .
Like him or loathe him, he IS responsible for F1 existing as a wealthy successful sport
What The Deuces said:
Regardless of anyone's opinion of him (and many of those who have an opinion have no actual knowledge or context on which to base it) there would be no F1 for us to be enjoying if it wasn't for Bernie.
He not only monetised it so Teams could survive but he also insisted on circuit quality, tv coverage quality .
Like him or loathe him, he IS responsible for F1 existing as a wealthy successful sport
I completely agree, he's also probably the very last link to the Formula 1 in the 50's as well. He not only monetised it so Teams could survive but he also insisted on circuit quality, tv coverage quality .
Like him or loathe him, he IS responsible for F1 existing as a wealthy successful sport
I think this aspect of the man is somewhat obscured by 'Legend/Infamy of Bernie' (delete as appropriate). He does have an overwhelming passion for the sport and this documentary is part of explaining his legacy in the sport for his children as one of them is obviously highly unlikely to know Bernie as an adult.
Doug Nye (the renowned Motorsports author) recently told an anecdote on the Historic Motorsport Podcast (highly recommended BTW). He has recently been in discussion with an unnamed racing car collector who has requested that Doug create a book documenting the history of each car in the (large) collection.
Doug relayed his discussion with the collector when he asked him who the audience / target market was for the book. Apparently
What The Deuces said:
Regardless of anyone's opinion of him (and many of those who have an opinion have no actual knowledge or context on which to base it) there would be no F1 for us to be enjoying if it wasn't for Bernie.
He not only monetised it so Teams could survive but he also insisted on circuit quality, tv coverage quality .
Like him or loathe him, he IS responsible for F1 existing as a wealthy successful sport
Well, Grand Prix racing somehow managed to survive between 1906 and 2000 before Ecclestone's iron grip was sealed by his bent mate Max selling him the sport for the equivalent of £1-75. The sport would look very different now without him but that isn't necessarily a bad thing . He created a global TV brand of such popularity that everybody has an opinion on every character in the soap opera it has become . And I don't welcome that, and miss some aspects of the sport before he came to dominate it . It was sometimes shambolic . the team trucks weren't parked exactly in line and it didn't get blanket TV coverage . But it did have a charm now largely lost - I still love it , still go now and again but I am not keen on the homogenised and absurdly expensive and self important little cartel it has become largely become. He not only monetised it so Teams could survive but he also insisted on circuit quality, tv coverage quality .
Like him or loathe him, he IS responsible for F1 existing as a wealthy successful sport
As a more niche sport when I first went to a GP . it was easily affordable to watch live , I could walk around the pits and paddock unhindered by B list slebs and hysterical fans who need an underwear change if they see a driver . I wasn't subjected to races being held in ghastly Gulf state tyrannies and most years I could see 3 or 4 races in the UK ,as non championship races were common . And I didn't have to put up with a crass megalomaniac telling me what a great guy a tyrant like Putin was .
What The Deuces said:
Regardless of anyone's opinion of him (and many of those who have an opinion have no actual knowledge or context on which to base it) there would be no F1 for us to be enjoying if it wasn't for Bernie.
He not only monetised it so Teams could survive but he also insisted on circuit quality, tv coverage quality .
Like him or loathe him, he IS responsible for F1 existing as a wealthy successful sport
Peak Bernie as ringmaster coincided when tobacco sponsorship when at its peak or more specifically: before Max gave away commercial rights to Bernie for a tuppence.He not only monetised it so Teams could survive but he also insisted on circuit quality, tv coverage quality .
Like him or loathe him, he IS responsible for F1 existing as a wealthy successful sport
blackmme said:
I completely agree, he's also probably the very last link to the Formula 1 in the 50's as well.
I think this aspect of the man is somewhat obscured by 'Legend/Infamy of Bernie' (delete as appropriate). He does have an overwhelming passion for the sport and this documentary is part of explaining his legacy in the sport for his children as one of them is obviously highly unlikely to know Bernie as an adult.
Doug Nye (the renowned Motorsports author) recently told an anecdote on the Historic Motorsport Podcast (highly recommended BTW). He has recently been in discussion with an unnamed racing car collector who has requested that Doug create a book documenting the history of each car in the (large) collection.
Doug relayed his discussion with the collector when he asked him who the audience / target market was for the book. ApparentlyBernie oops I mean unnamed collection said "Sorry Doug you don't understand I mean A Book".
That's not unusual amongst car collectors. It's not that expensive when you have spent the money doing a full history research process to then document in a one off book.I think this aspect of the man is somewhat obscured by 'Legend/Infamy of Bernie' (delete as appropriate). He does have an overwhelming passion for the sport and this documentary is part of explaining his legacy in the sport for his children as one of them is obviously highly unlikely to know Bernie as an adult.
Doug Nye (the renowned Motorsports author) recently told an anecdote on the Historic Motorsport Podcast (highly recommended BTW). He has recently been in discussion with an unnamed racing car collector who has requested that Doug create a book documenting the history of each car in the (large) collection.
Doug relayed his discussion with the collector when he asked him who the audience / target market was for the book. Apparently
Those that race them often do an annual that covers the seasons racing.
garypotter said:
Cannot remeber how much BE paid to Germany when he was investigated for selling F1 on even though he had an offer higher than the one he agreed. Maybe it was a larger brown envelope......
"it's got to be three figures..." 100m
I miss him! it's really not the same without him around
coppice said:
What The Deuces said:
Regardless of anyone's opinion of him (and many of those who have an opinion have no actual knowledge or context on which to base it) there would be no F1 for us to be enjoying if it wasn't for Bernie.
He not only monetised it so Teams could survive but he also insisted on circuit quality, tv coverage quality .
Like him or loathe him, he IS responsible for F1 existing as a wealthy successful sport
Well, Grand Prix racing somehow managed to survive between 1906 and 2000 before Ecclestone's iron grip was sealed by his bent mate Max selling him the sport for the equivalent of £1-75. The sport would look very different now without him but that isn't necessarily a bad thing . He created a global TV brand of such popularity that everybody has an opinion on every character in the soap opera it has become . And I don't welcome that, and miss some aspects of the sport before he came to dominate it . It was sometimes shambolic . the team trucks weren't parked exactly in line and it didn't get blanket TV coverage . But it did have a charm now largely lost - I still love it , still go now and again but I am not keen on the homogenised and absurdly expensive and self important little cartel it has become largely become. He not only monetised it so Teams could survive but he also insisted on circuit quality, tv coverage quality .
Like him or loathe him, he IS responsible for F1 existing as a wealthy successful sport
As a more niche sport when I first went to a GP . it was easily affordable to watch live , I could walk around the pits and paddock unhindered by B list slebs and hysterical fans who need an underwear change if they see a driver . I wasn't subjected to races being held in ghastly Gulf state tyrannies and most years I could see 3 or 4 races in the UK ,as non championship races were common . And I didn't have to put up with a crass megalomaniac telling me what a great guy a tyrant like Putin was .
Honestly it wasn’t that great having races at substandard circuits with no medical facilities and no TV coverage.
What The Deuces said:
Bernie secured the long term future of F1 way way way before 2000.
Honestly it wasn’t that great having races at substandard circuits with no medical facilities and no TV coverage.
No he didn't . He was hugely influential but only owned the rights completely wef 2000. As for circuits , we have lost far more than we have gained .. I'd swap yet another featureless joke of a circuit in yet another Gulf hell hole for Brands Hatch , Watkins Glen or Kyalami . Honestly it wasn’t that great having races at substandard circuits with no medical facilities and no TV coverage.
TV - if I could go and see 3 or 4 races live a year I'd forgo the telly .
But Ecclestone does deserve some credit for medical improvements . Although , of course , the now near forgotten Louis Stanley (with Jackie Stewart ) was instrumental in getting on site medical support long before Ecclestone was an influential figure . Stanley also pushed for specially trained fire marshals
Eric Mc said:
At a price.
It's turned into a slik, corporate marketing tool devoid of character and soul.
Some people might prefer that. I don't.
Indeed. The best period for me would be somewhere between the garagistas and the corporate getting to grips with their new toy. Now that the toy has been picked apart, I understand that it is now beyond a sport and clearly all about money, sadly.It's turned into a slik, corporate marketing tool devoid of character and soul.
Some people might prefer that. I don't.
It will get worse, purely through greed...and whoomph(!) Bernie's blueprint is back in the room.
coppice said:
What The Deuces said:
Bernie secured the long term future of F1 way way way before 2000.
Honestly it wasn’t that great having races at substandard circuits with no medical facilities and no TV coverage.
No he didn't . He was hugely influential but only owned the rights completely wef 2000. As for circuits , we have lost far more than we have gained .. I'd swap yet another featureless joke of a circuit in yet another Gulf hell hole for Brands Hatch , Watkins Glen or Kyalami . Honestly it wasn’t that great having races at substandard circuits with no medical facilities and no TV coverage.
TV - if I could go and see 3 or 4 races live a year I'd forgo the telly .
But Ecclestone does deserve some credit for medical improvements . Although , of course , the now near forgotten Louis Stanley (with Jackie Stewart ) was instrumental in getting on site medical support long before Ecclestone was an influential figure . Stanley also pushed for specially trained fire marshals
He did that long long long before 2000
If you don’t make sure those things happen that he had the vision to do then just look across the pond at Indycar through the 80’s 90’s and 00’s. It may be good to watch (like any spec series) but it’s worth f
k allWhat The Deuces said:
If you don’t make sure those things happen that he had the vision to do then just look across the pond at Indycar through the 80’s 90’s and 00’s. It may be good to watch (like any spec series) but it’s worth fk all
The historical problems of Indycar are a lot more complex though CART was doing good in the 80s and 90s but NASCAR was also rising in popularity.k allThe biggest fault with CART is that however noble ruling by committee don't always work out because of competing interests and so you need a person who will "get things done" as with Alan Gow and TOCA.
Tony George pressed American Open Wheel Racing's self-destruct button when he went ahead with the Split and the IRL. Had the naivete to think he could work with NASCAR just as it was rising in popularity.
I’m always amused at the vitriol towards Bernie from “fans”. As if they are important, or relevant.
Ordinary “fans” have never been remotely important or relevant to GP racing. And (for once - don’t worry I’ll try not to make a habit of it) I’m going to channel my inner Eric here, I always consider GP/F1 to be pre and post the early 50s FIA designation stuff.
The only decade in which they had the slightest sliver of anybody giving a fk about them was the 70s. Fortunately the majority of the world had a word with themselves about how utterly st the 70s were and we all moved on.
1. GP racing exists for the benefit of the auto industry, to sell product to ppl, so they can bask in some vague faux reflected glory of a winning team.
2. GP racing exists for the benefit of ego driven males in their 20s and 30s demonstrating a need to achieve dominance over other males by a mix of physical abilities and skill.
3. GP racing exists for the above males to make money out of said activities and their prowess. Usually from tapping into the desire of the same ppl as 1, to bask in reflected glory of their individual heros as opposed to a team.
4. GP racing exists for the benefit of the Administrators. As all commercially organised entities have since time began.
Mercedes and Ferrari have ruthlessly exploited No1 since the 50s and before, obvs in Mercs case just for the periods they were involved. Some ppl have zero idea of just how ruthlessly efficient Merc were back in the day. Toto was nothing new and merely followed, frankly, a corporate template laid down nearly 100yrs ago. Merc have barely deviated from it.
If you doubt pt3, well frankly the drivers were most famously in on that game from Tripoli (allegedly) onwards. The Italian drivers were very much money orientated professionals pre war, whilst the Germans were driven by, er, other stuff.
Moss turned the drivers game back into being professional, money orientated and away from the post war Adrenalin high that others were indulged in.
Anyway, the point of all this waffle is that the sport has always existed, precisely and utterly, for the benefit of everyone APART from the ordinary fans. Bernie just made damn sure that he and his ppl benefitted the most. And for the avoidance of doubt, Bernie considered “his” people to be the racers and team owners. It was their money and their lives on the line so the rewards should come to them. I have always pretty much fully agreed with him in their respect.
Ordinary “fans” have never been remotely important or relevant to GP racing. And (for once - don’t worry I’ll try not to make a habit of it) I’m going to channel my inner Eric here, I always consider GP/F1 to be pre and post the early 50s FIA designation stuff.
The only decade in which they had the slightest sliver of anybody giving a f
k about them was the 70s. Fortunately the majority of the world had a word with themselves about how utterly st the 70s were and we all moved on. 1. GP racing exists for the benefit of the auto industry, to sell product to ppl, so they can bask in some vague faux reflected glory of a winning team.
2. GP racing exists for the benefit of ego driven males in their 20s and 30s demonstrating a need to achieve dominance over other males by a mix of physical abilities and skill.
3. GP racing exists for the above males to make money out of said activities and their prowess. Usually from tapping into the desire of the same ppl as 1, to bask in reflected glory of their individual heros as opposed to a team.
4. GP racing exists for the benefit of the Administrators. As all commercially organised entities have since time began.
Mercedes and Ferrari have ruthlessly exploited No1 since the 50s and before, obvs in Mercs case just for the periods they were involved. Some ppl have zero idea of just how ruthlessly efficient Merc were back in the day. Toto was nothing new and merely followed, frankly, a corporate template laid down nearly 100yrs ago. Merc have barely deviated from it.
If you doubt pt3, well frankly the drivers were most famously in on that game from Tripoli (allegedly) onwards. The Italian drivers were very much money orientated professionals pre war, whilst the Germans were driven by, er, other stuff.
Moss turned the drivers game back into being professional, money orientated and away from the post war Adrenalin high that others were indulged in.
Anyway, the point of all this waffle is that the sport has always existed, precisely and utterly, for the benefit of everyone APART from the ordinary fans. Bernie just made damn sure that he and his ppl benefitted the most. And for the avoidance of doubt, Bernie considered “his” people to be the racers and team owners. It was their money and their lives on the line so the rewards should come to them. I have always pretty much fully agreed with him in their respect.
vaud said:
IIRC when someone on the pitwall's wife was taken ill Bernie offered his private plane to get them home ASAP.
I think like Schumacher and Senna he is has a "winning" mindset but also capable of quiet acts of generosity and kindness. He just kept them quiet.
I have no dog in this fight but I do have a BE story.I think like Schumacher and Senna he is has a "winning" mindset but also capable of quiet acts of generosity and kindness. He just kept them quiet.
In 1999, he was taken into the London Chest Hospital for a heart bypass (he does have one
). A good friend of mine had a girlfriend who was part of the health care team who looked after BE, After being discharged and having had some R&R, he returned back to the hospital and put on a small party where everyone was invited and he picked up the tab.I appreciate the whole evening cost him less then a few minutes interest on his money, but it does go to show he has/had some sort of moral compass.
What The Deuces said:
Regardless of anyone's opinion of him (and many of those who have an opinion have no actual knowledge or context on which to base it) there would be no F1 for us to be enjoying if it wasn't for Bernie.
He not only monetised it so Teams could survive but he also insisted on circuit quality, tv coverage quality .
Like him or loathe him, he IS responsible for F1 existing as a wealthy successful sport
a wise man agrees with youHe not only monetised it so Teams could survive but he also insisted on circuit quality, tv coverage quality .
Like him or loathe him, he IS responsible for F1 existing as a wealthy successful sport
https://www.grandprix247.com/2015/04/03/sir-frank-...
mk1coopers said:
Petrus1983 said:
Can anyone tell me the best way to view this? I’m assuming it’s not on Netflix.
Discovery + is now free if you already have a SKY subscription, I watched some of the first episode last night, I’d say watch it for the F1 footage, BE will always divide opinion’s.Edited by Sixpackpert on Tuesday 31st January 15:39
BE certainly divides opinion, but Abu Dhabi didn't happen on his watch.
Looks like more scrambled egg is now looming. Tail wagging the dog
https://www.planetf1.com/news/report-mohammed-ben-...
Looks like more scrambled egg is now looming. Tail wagging the dog
https://www.planetf1.com/news/report-mohammed-ben-...
sparta6 said:
BE certainly divides opinion, but Abu Dhabi didn't happen on his watch.
Looks like more scrambled egg is now looming. Tail wagging the dog
https://www.planetf1.com/news/report-mohammed-ben-...
That would be a big loss to Motorsport UK.Looks like more scrambled egg is now looming. Tail wagging the dog
https://www.planetf1.com/news/report-mohammed-ben-...
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