Anyone here bored of F1 at the moment?
Discussion
zac510 said:
zebedee said:
I'm pretty sure that hasn't happened at all.
Did you hear interviews with Whitmarsh and Button on Saturday? They'd definitely packed it in for the year. I'm not saying they won't race but if they don't really believe they can beat Vettel then they might not expend every effort or take risk to beat him.
They are human and have emotions, not robots.
Inside the grid you will find all the leading drivers will happily go toe-to-toe with Vettel. None of them fear the individual at all.
It is the combination of RB and Newey that the teams were resigned to in the latter part of 2013, because they all knew that there was no way their own teams were even going to try and close the gap because everything changes next season.
RB had it pretty easy. Having dominated until mid-way through the season, the likes of Ferrari and Merc and Mclaren gave up spending money on the car when they knew that none of it would carry over to next season. So all they could do was sit there and watch RB go through a demonstration.
toppstuff said:
Yes I did. It most certainly was NOT any notion of Vettel having "broken them" however. No way.
Inside the grid you will find all the leading drivers will happily go toe-to-toe with Vettel. None of them fear the individual at all.
It is the combination of RB and Newey that the teams were resigned to in the latter part of 2013, because they all knew that there was no way their own teams were even going to try and close the gap because everything changes next season.
RB had it pretty easy. Having dominated until mid-way through the season, the likes of Ferrari and Merc and Mclaren gave up spending money on the car when they knew that none of it would carry over to next season. So all they could do was sit there and watch RB go through a demonstration.
Agreed, nothing to do with Vettel himself.Inside the grid you will find all the leading drivers will happily go toe-to-toe with Vettel. None of them fear the individual at all.
It is the combination of RB and Newey that the teams were resigned to in the latter part of 2013, because they all knew that there was no way their own teams were even going to try and close the gap because everything changes next season.
RB had it pretty easy. Having dominated until mid-way through the season, the likes of Ferrari and Merc and Mclaren gave up spending money on the car when they knew that none of it would carry over to next season. So all they could do was sit there and watch RB go through a demonstration.
toppstuff said:
Yes I did. It most certainly was NOT any notion of Vettel having "broken them" however. No way.
I kind of meant all the top drivers but just singled out the McLaren comments because they were recent. I know McLaren had a pretty bad car from early on so they had other reasons to 'give up'. There were other comments though, like "I don't know how he does it" in response to his dominant victory in Singapore and other races are not the words of drivers who think they can are going to turn up next race week and beat him!zac510 said:
toppstuff said:
Yes I did. It most certainly was NOT any notion of Vettel having "broken them" however. No way.
I kind of meant all the top drivers but just singled out the McLaren comments because they were recent. I know McLaren had a pretty bad car from early on so they had other reasons to 'give up'. There were other comments though, like "I don't know how he does it" in response to his dominant victory in Singapore and other races are not the words of drivers who think they can are going to turn up next race week and beat him!I thought that the Sky focus on Joe Bauer over the weekend was pointed. Like saying " how could anyone possibly be cheating, with eagle eye Joe around?" I wonder why they decided or who asked them to run that?
SV has become white noise to me now. I don't care who is going to win, because it will no doubt be him - but its now who's 2nd, 3rd etc
Have to admit this season has been (mostly) dull, protecting tyres, managing fuel, team orders etc - its more like 71 parade laps than a race at times.
I think bring back refueling, keep tyres as they are but don't limit the teams to how many sets and also, get rid of this 'you have to run both tyres' crap - you run what you want but be aware it will degrade quickly
Also, award points for completed laps during qualifying or something - it REALLY irritates me when 10 minutes in to Q1 and some of the drivers aren't even in their cars yet. GRRR!
i also agree with the R&D comments, next year is where it's at. REALLY looking forward to March.
Have to admit this season has been (mostly) dull, protecting tyres, managing fuel, team orders etc - its more like 71 parade laps than a race at times.
I think bring back refueling, keep tyres as they are but don't limit the teams to how many sets and also, get rid of this 'you have to run both tyres' crap - you run what you want but be aware it will degrade quickly
Also, award points for completed laps during qualifying or something - it REALLY irritates me when 10 minutes in to Q1 and some of the drivers aren't even in their cars yet. GRRR!
i also agree with the R&D comments, next year is where it's at. REALLY looking forward to March.
Just after watching/sleeping through the GP, I turned to Motors TV and watched the Australian v8 Supercars at Phillip Island.
Now that is what I call racing, just like F1 used to be. I know which one excited me the most, and it definately wasn't the GP. I lIve in hope that the good old days will return, but fear the worst.
Now that is what I call racing, just like F1 used to be. I know which one excited me the most, and it definately wasn't the GP. I lIve in hope that the good old days will return, but fear the worst.
ash73 said:
toppstuff said:
Inside the grid you will find all the leading drivers will happily go toe-to-toe with Vettel. None of them fear the individual at all.
Try telling that to Mark Webber, it was plain to see he had accepted he could no longer beat him. Oh and Alonso, who apparently veto'd Seb at Ferrari; why would he do that?Put it another way, put a bunch of drivers in the same car and ALL of them would fancy their chances to win and beat the other, Vettel included.
Hell, put Paul di Resta in the same car as Vettel and he would fancy his chances to beat him regularly, just like he did when they were team mates in F3.
Put all the F1 drivers in a bunch of Caterhams and send them around Silverstone and I think, frankly, that any of the top 6-8 drivers could win. And the drivers know this. They aren't scared of anyone on the track and believe they could beat anyone given the car. That is what makes them tick.
toppstuff said:
Because I must admit that I think I may be going that way...
I'm looking forward to a few races this year but I must admit that I find my enthusiasm waning.
It is getting all a bit predictable.
Can anyone persuade Adrian Newey to take a sabbatical maybe?
Or am I a loner in this point of view?
You have a valid point. Vettel & RB's dominance this year made the whole experience a predictable bore in my humble opinion. Most of the race's were decided within the first half lap. Vettel- on pole position, makes a good start, and proceeds to disappear unchallenged into the distance. The End.I'm looking forward to a few races this year but I must admit that I find my enthusiasm waning.
It is getting all a bit predictable.
Can anyone persuade Adrian Newey to take a sabbatical maybe?
Or am I a loner in this point of view?
I found the 2013 season the most boring season since I returned to the F1 fold in 2004. Many of the race's were processional and dull for the most part. It's imperative that Red Bull are subject to a serious challenge next year, or we will witness another dull, predictable season.
TheHeretic said:
After the pit stop 'dramas' that almost killed a cameraman this year, or the melodrama at McLaren last year?
Personally, and from what has been said on the F1 forums, it is absolutely about Vettel. We have a race like the one just gone with lots of on track action, and not really any pit stop strategies that beat the rest, and yet we are told it was 'dull'. Why was it dull? Because Vettel overtook the 'fastest man in F1' coming out of Eau Rouge and went on to win? We didn't hear 'predictable' the race before to my memory, when it was less of an event. It does always seem to be about when Vettel wins.
Case in point, you never even watched the race. You went outside the moment Vettel got ahead of Hamilton. That says more than I ever could.
Pit stop 'dramas' do not make for an interesting race. This season, especially the latter half of it, has been tediously predictable. Red Bull never faced *any* serious challenge. Most race's were decided within the first half lap. Vettel would start well, and simply disappear away from the remainder of the field. I feel that F1 these days is becoming a pretty dull experience for the viewer. Vettel is NOT the primary issue, he *can* be beaten by any number of driver's out there. I suspect if you provided Hamilton or Alonso with a car with identical performance to the Red Bull, they are more than capable of vanquishing Vettel. The primary issue this year has been due to the fact that most of the teams effectively gave up developing their cars by the half way point. They quickly realised that the Newey designed RB car was unassailable, abandoned any further significant development, and looked towards 2014.Personally, and from what has been said on the F1 forums, it is absolutely about Vettel. We have a race like the one just gone with lots of on track action, and not really any pit stop strategies that beat the rest, and yet we are told it was 'dull'. Why was it dull? Because Vettel overtook the 'fastest man in F1' coming out of Eau Rouge and went on to win? We didn't hear 'predictable' the race before to my memory, when it was less of an event. It does always seem to be about when Vettel wins.
Case in point, you never even watched the race. You went outside the moment Vettel got ahead of Hamilton. That says more than I ever could.
In a word, 2013 F1 season was *DULL*
I think that the comment about the Adrian Newey effect is a very good one. Yes, you have to accept that Vettel is good, but only in an Alonso, Hamilton sort of way. Newey is the absolute key factor here.
He has found a way of getting so much downforce into that car that it heats its tyres and keeps them hot. All of the others have suffered with cool tyres just not doing their job, and destroying themselves trying.
I sadly feel that he will find a way through the new 2014 regs to continue this situation, and next year will be the same as this one, exploding turbo's excepted.
He has found a way of getting so much downforce into that car that it heats its tyres and keeps them hot. All of the others have suffered with cool tyres just not doing their job, and destroying themselves trying.
I sadly feel that he will find a way through the new 2014 regs to continue this situation, and next year will be the same as this one, exploding turbo's excepted.
Don't be so sure - the RB was off the pace at the start of last year and it was only later in the season when McLaren & Ferrari failed to keep up with improvements that Vettel was able to take the wins again.
Merc have been working on the '14 car since the spring and Brawn has already been doing the "you just wait until you see this..". I hope that they've been able to cater for Lewis's oversteery nature.
They aren't alone of course, all teams have been playing with the '14 cars for some time.
Merc have been working on the '14 car since the spring and Brawn has already been doing the "you just wait until you see this..". I hope that they've been able to cater for Lewis's oversteery nature.
They aren't alone of course, all teams have been playing with the '14 cars for some time.
ash73 said:
FiremanRob said:
Newey is the absolute key factor here.
I doubt it's possible for one person to know the design end-to-end anymore, may be more a question of the core team of designers he has working for him. Haven't they lost one to McLaren recently?
t!mollytherocker said:
ash73 said:
FiremanRob said:
Newey is the absolute key factor here.
I doubt it's possible for one person to know the design end-to-end anymore, may be more a question of the core team of designers he has working for him. Haven't they lost one to McLaren recently?t!ash73 said:
I doubt it's possible for one person to know the design end-to-end anymore, may be more a question of the core team of designers he has working for him. Haven't they lost one to McLaren recently?
Peter Prodromou, described as Newey's right hand man over the weekend. He's an aero guy, there was a bit of a skirmish about the announcement - McLaren announced it and Horner immediately said that Prodromou would be with them until the end of '15, which it would appear has ended up with him on gardening leave for the rest of this year and joining Mclaren for the start of '14.You are right though, the task of designing a car isn't just one bloke, some A3 paper and a few sharp pencils.
I think there is as much benefit in having a coherent strategy and structure within the R&D departments as there is having a big name. If you look at Mercedes they have taken on experienced, well known people (Bell, Costa, Willis, Lowe).
My guess is that they have been tasked with setting up the organisation properly so it can function after the team was decimated during 2009 as Brawn and was clearly struggling in the early Merc days. Every time they talk to Brawn he's talking about the team sorting out the structures, methods of working and so on.
If you can get people communicating effectively and focussed on their objectives the sum ends up greater than the parts.
I have a sneaking suspicion its why Williams hired Symonds, he's been around longer than most and knows how a team should function.
Now I've said that we can expect Merc to have a McLaren/Williams year
Pedmeister said:
The primary issue this year has been due to the fact that most of the teams effectively gave up developing their cars by the half way point. They quickly realised that the Newey designed RB car was unassailable, abandoned any further significant development, and looked towards 2014.
RBR came back from the summer break with significant improvements with the floor and diffuser and have been untouchable ever since. There has been numerous theories why they run with so much rake with the splitter/bib/tea tray.McLaren are the big team to not bother developing their sh*t car.
Sauber made improvements to their exhaust/diffuser.
Williams revised their exhaust layout.
Ferrari have been crap at developing their cars recently.
Merc's development slowed down and their recent upgrades have been hit & miss.
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