Lewis Hamilton

[vdn]

Teddy Lop said:

sparta6 said:

FIA has zero interest in changing rules to to halt Mercedes dominance, unlike their canny intervention with Ferrari's.

Theres been a number of rule changes in the hybrid era, ostensibly in order to shake the field up/make for closer racing, whichever way you want to define that "halting mercedes dominance" was anticipated at least a couple of times. The simple fact is mercedes+lewis have managed to meet every challenge and keep coming out on top, so they (the rule changes) aren't held to be as important as the end of ferrari dominance and tyres are, even though some aspects (such as increasing the tyre width) were quite considerable.

Sparta can’t / won’t admit it though...

[TheDeuce]

sparta6 said:

Renualt should certainly pack up and go home.
BUT - they are France. FIA are France. Ego and reputation are at stake.

I thought they were French

Surprisingly you're probably right though. The French aren't very good at F1 these days but it does remain a point of national pride to be a major player. In recent years they've managed to provide a circuit everyone hates, a French team that gets beaten by an English team using the French engine and a governing body that does whatever the Italians demand. Somewhere in all of that, they find national pride.

[A44RON]

HustleRussell said:

I'm certain they would obviously be slower than the current PUs not only over a race distance but over a single lap, all other things being equal. The V6Ts are making close to four figure power outputs and with immense torque over a broad power band, recovering and re-deploying energy which would otherwise be wasted, and are slowly superseding V10 era lap records- despite the refueling ban and constant efforts within the regulations to restrict lap pace. It is disingenuous to suggest that the PUs are in any way responsible for the cars not being significantly faster than the V10 era.

However I suspect you already knew that.

It's all about power-to-weight, physics cannot be beaten.

Ferrari F2004: power: 960bhp+
weight including driver and fuel: 605kg (the V10 engine weighed only 86kg)

2019 Mercedes W10 EQ: power: 810bhp + temporary 160bhp MGU-H boost
weight including driver: 743kg (the PU weighs a combined 140kg)

All of the hybrid-era lap records are due to cars pitting for fresh super-soft slick tyres during the final few laps of the race and going maximum attack with minimal fuel onboard - ie only a handful of laps fuel remaining. Combine that with the new super-soft slicks and 15 years extra tech advancements they should be breaking all the lap records. But they haven't.

And yet, the majority are still held by the 2004-2005 V10s. Despite the V10s having technology that is now 15 years old, less aerodynamics & aero grip than the hybrid era and they were using grooved tyres back then too. Also, if you look at total race times, the V10s absolutely still crush last year's cars, even with pitting 1-2 times more per race for refuelling, which adds another 20+ seconds per pit stop. Back then it was essentially sprint races with the fastest laps of the race almost on par with the pole position times from qualifying... unlike today with all of the tyre and engine management. The drivers during the V10 era always got out of the cars drenched in sweat at every race. You only see that during the hybrid era at the humid countries.

The above also links in with costs and why they can't afford to return to sprint races while running these expensive hybrid engines - hence why even being restricted to three PUs/engines per year. Somone on here posted a few weeks ago that during the most expensive period of the V10 era 2002-2004, teams were using multiple engines every race weekend, spare cars in the garages, loads of test-days throughout the year etc... and despite all of that, Jordan's annual budget was only £40 million per year and race-winning teams budgets were £150 million+ per year... Williams annual budget 2017-2019 was £150 million per year! To be (by far) the slowest team on the grid. There's progress for you.

Edited by A44RON on Monday 15th June 05:52

[kiseca]

A44RON said:

HustleRussell said:

I'm certain they would obviously be slower than the current PUs not only over a race distance but over a single lap, all other things being equal. The V6Ts are making close to four figure power outputs and with immense torque over a broad power band, recovering and re-deploying energy which would otherwise be wasted, and are slowly superseding V10 era lap records- despite the refueling ban and constant efforts within the regulations to restrict lap pace. It is disingenuous to suggest that the PUs are in any way responsible for the cars not being significantly faster than the V10 era.

However I suspect you already knew that.

It's all about power-to-weight, physics cannot be beaten.

Ferrari F2004: power: 960bhp+
weight including driver and fuel: 605kg (the V10 engine weighed only 86kg)

2019 Mercedes W10 EQ: power: 810bhp + temporary 160bhp MGU-H boost
weight including driver: 743kg (the PU weighs a combined 140kg)

All of the hybrid-era lap records are due to cars pitting for fresh super-soft slick tyres during the final few laps of the race and going maximum attack with minimal fuel onboard - ie only a handful of laps fuel remaining. Combine that with the new super-soft slicks and 15 years extra tech advancements they should be breaking all the lap records. But they haven't.

And yet, the majority are still held by the 2004-2005 V10s. Despite the V10s having technology that is now 15 years old, less aerodynamics & aero grip than the hybrid era and they were using grooved tyres back then too. Also, if you look at total race times, the V10s absolutely still crush last year's cars, even with pitting 1-2 times more per race for refuelling, which adds another 20+ seconds per pit stop. Back then it was essentially sprint races with the fastest laps of the race almost on par with the pole position times from qualifying... unlike today with all of the tyre and engine management. The drivers during the V10 era always got out of the cars drenched in sweat at every race. You only see that during the hybrid era at the humid countries.

The above also links in with costs and why they can't afford to return to sprint races while running these expensive hybrid engines - hence why even being restricted to three PUs/engines per year. Somone on here posted a few weeks ago that during the most expensive period of the V10 era 2002-2004, teams were using multiple engines every race weekend, spare cars in the garages, loads of test-days throughout the year etc... and despite all of that, Jordan's annual budget was only £40 million per year and race-winning teams budgets were £150 million+ per year... Williams annual budget 2017-2019 was £150 million per year! To be (by far) the slowest team on the grid. There's progress for you.

Edited by A44RON on Monday 15th June 05:52

Not arguing which is faster or slower, because I'm not certain either way, but what you're saying there, at one point, is that the hybrid cars are only faster when they're under optimal conditions of low fuel and fresh tyres if they happen to pit near the end of the race. That's the key, though, isn't it? As you say, the V10s did lots of pitstops for both fuel and tyres, so they were running a series of sprints and were always under optimal conditions.

The reason they pitted so often wasn't because they had to, but because they could, and it was the fastest way to the end of the race.

From that I'd suggest that if refuelling was allowed today, and they could get fresh tyres at each pitstop (I may be wrong but I believe the teams have access to fewer sets of new tyres now than they did in the V10 era?) they'd also run the races as a series of sprints because it would still be the fastest way to the finish, and the sharing of lap records and fastest race times would be much closer. In other words, the faster race times for the V10s aren't because the cars themselves are faster, but because the conditions they raced under allowed them more access to their fastest laps.

Maybe

[HighwayStar]

sparta6 said:

HighwayStar said:

fk me, re Bottas... did I say he’s equal to Hamilton, Max or The Monegasque...? You’re literally agreeing with me. He did ok at Williams before their slide.. manage to get on the podium.

Edited by HighwayStar on Sunday 14th June 15:21

I compared Albon to Bottas.
Albon has far more racecraft.
Bottas only got the Merc seat as he was managed by Toto at the time (££), and no threat to Lewis.
Bottas doesn't deserve a Merc seat, but Ricciardo does.

You picked the wrong quote of mine.. I also said...

Bottas is a decent driver, just not shown the capability to go the distance, put it together over a whole season.

I’ll explain it to you... on his day he can grab a pole, win a race but, pay attention now Sparta... that bit in bold basically says he doesn’t have the race craft otherwise in that car he’d have been fight for more poles, podiums and wins. You even argue when I agree with!

Yes, Ricciardo deserved the Merc seat but he didn’t get it for team unity reasons, you know what they are but let’s go with what you believe. To protect Lewis because he’s not really that good... saves another 10 pages of your usual ranting

DRic deserved the RedBull seat but they offered him a fraction of what they gave Max in a massive 5yr contract. They disrespect him. Mugged him off they did, kneecapped (your word ) hun Sparta. He would’ve been Max’s rear gunner. Max’s bh!
You don’t moan about that though do you?
RedBull have form, they did the same to Weber.

Vettel jumps/pushed and oh look, there’s seat free at Ferrari. A top top team. Surely your boy DRic is a shoe in, the definition of a no brainer. He deserves the seat but wait!!! Oh, Sainz! Carlos got the ride. He’s good but surely your boy is better and you’ll be straight on here enraged, Leclerc is protected but nope, nothing. Not a peep* but here you are again banging on about the same old same old.

• You may have moaned, and I mean as strongly as you have about Bottas/Hamilton, but I can’t be arse to search through your mostly banal posts... ‘mostly‘ to give you a lil credit.

We would all like to see 6 world/potential world champs in the top three teams but it’s about team harmony. It’s how it’s been for a long time. Certainly since Hamilton/Alonso.
Back in the Hakinnen at Mclaren... Coulthard told of a meeting he was in with Dennis and Hakinnen. Dennis said to Mika, what are we going to do... at the moment he knew he was just the other driver.

Team harmony Sparta. Merc do it. RedBull and especially Ferrari have been doing it for years. You. Know. This. Just open your mind, a bit. Just try.

[A44RON]

kiseca said:

A44RON said:

HustleRussell said:

I'm certain they would obviously be slower than the current PUs not only over a race distance but over a single lap, all other things being equal. The V6Ts are making close to four figure power outputs and with immense torque over a broad power band, recovering and re-deploying energy which would otherwise be wasted, and are slowly superseding V10 era lap records- despite the refueling ban and constant efforts within the regulations to restrict lap pace. It is disingenuous to suggest that the PUs are in any way responsible for the cars not being significantly faster than the V10 era.

However I suspect you already knew that.

It's all about power-to-weight, physics cannot be beaten.

Ferrari F2004: power: 960bhp+
weight including driver and fuel: 605kg (the V10 engine weighed only 86kg)

2019 Mercedes W10 EQ: power: 810bhp + temporary 160bhp MGU-H boost
weight including driver: 743kg (the PU weighs a combined 140kg)

All of the hybrid-era lap records are due to cars pitting for fresh super-soft slick tyres during the final few laps of the race and going maximum attack with minimal fuel onboard - ie only a handful of laps fuel remaining. Combine that with the new super-soft slicks and 15 years extra tech advancements they should be breaking all the lap records. But they haven't.

And yet, the majority are still held by the 2004-2005 V10s. Despite the V10s having technology that is now 15 years old, less aerodynamics & aero grip than the hybrid era and they were using grooved tyres back then too. Also, if you look at total race times, the V10s absolutely still crush last year's cars, even with pitting 1-2 times more per race for refuelling, which adds another 20+ seconds per pit stop. Back then it was essentially sprint races with the fastest laps of the race almost on par with the pole position times from qualifying... unlike today with all of the tyre and engine management. The drivers during the V10 era always got out of the cars drenched in sweat at every race. You only see that during the hybrid era at the humid countries.

The above also links in with costs and why they can't afford to return to sprint races while running these expensive hybrid engines - hence why even being restricted to three PUs/engines per year. Somone on here posted a few weeks ago that during the most expensive period of the V10 era 2002-2004, teams were using multiple engines every race weekend, spare cars in the garages, loads of test-days throughout the year etc... and despite all of that, Jordan's annual budget was only £40 million per year and race-winning teams budgets were £150 million+ per year... Williams annual budget 2017-2019 was £150 million per year! To be (by far) the slowest team on the grid. There's progress for you.

Edited by A44RON on Monday 15th June 05:52

Not arguing which is faster or slower, because I'm not certain either way, but what you're saying there, at one point, is that the hybrid cars are only faster when they're under optimal conditions of low fuel and fresh tyres if they happen to pit near the end of the race. That's the key, though, isn't it? As you say, the V10s did lots of pitstops for both fuel and tyres, so they were running a series of sprints and were always under optimal conditions.

The reason they pitted so often wasn't because they had to, but because they could, and it was the fastest way to the end of the race.

From that I'd suggest that if refuelling was allowed today, and they could get fresh tyres at each pitstop (I may be wrong but I believe the teams have access to fewer sets of new tyres now than they did in the V10 era?) they'd also run the races as a series of sprints because it would still be the fastest way to the finish, and the sharing of lap records and fastest race times would be much closer. In other words, the faster race times for the V10s aren't because the cars themselves are faster, but because the conditions they raced under allowed them more access to their fastest laps.

Maybe

I see what you're saying, but the hybrids are so expensive and fragile, that if they did make it more of a sprint-race like it used to be (I would love to see it go back to that) then the costs would sky-rocket even higher than they are now and they would need a PU every race weekend... when the V10s pitted for fuel and tyres, they were still pumping in qualy-pace lap times with 20+ laps fuel on board with their fresh tyres, compared to 1-5 laps left of onboard fuel for the hybrids when they bang in their fastest laps.

[Dermot O'Logical]

There is a certain irony in that Le Mans, an endurance race, is now a series of sprints between pit stops, whereas a Grand Prix is an exercise in balancing tyre degredation against speed, power unit longevity and fuel consumption.

[sparta6]

TheDeuce said:

sparta6 said:

Renualt should certainly pack up and go home.
BUT - they are France. FIA are France. Ego and reputation are at stake.

I thought they were French

Surprisingly you're probably right though. The French aren't very good at F1 these days but it does remain a point of national pride to be a major player. In recent years they've managed to provide a circuit everyone hates, a French team that gets beaten by an English team using the French engine and a governing body that does whatever the Italians demand. Somewhere in all of that, they find national pride.

Please don't remind me of an almost wasted weekend at that crappy excuse for a race circuit

[HustleRussell]

A44RON said:

I see what you're saying, but the hybrids are so expensive and fragile, that if they did make it more of a sprint-race like it used to be (I would love to see it go back to that) then the costs would sky-rocket even higher than they are now and they would need a PU every race weekend... when the V10s pitted for fuel and tyres, they were still pumping in qualy-pace lap times with 20+ laps fuel on board with their fresh tyres, compared to 1-5 laps left of onboard fuel for the hybrids when they bang in their fastest laps.

The hybrids aren't actually particularly expensive for the customers and are certainly not fragile seeing as they are doing full seasons on three units. This is only an opinion but despite the above, the finishing rate doesn't appear to currently be much worse than in the V8 era?

[sparta6]

HighwayStar said:

sparta6 said:

HighwayStar said:

fk me, re Bottas... did I say he’s equal to Hamilton, Max or The Monegasque...? You’re literally agreeing with me. He did ok at Williams before their slide.. manage to get on the podium.

Edited by HighwayStar on Sunday 14th June 15:21

I compared Albon to Bottas.
Albon has far more racecraft.
Bottas only got the Merc seat as he was managed by Toto at the time (££), and no threat to Lewis.
Bottas doesn't deserve a Merc seat, but Ricciardo does.

You picked the wrong quote of mine.. I also said...

Bottas is a decent driver, just not shown the capability to go the distance, put it together over a whole season.

I’ll explain it to you... on his day he can grab a pole, win a race but, pay attention now Sparta... that bit in bold basically says he doesn’t have the race craft otherwise in that car he’d have been fight for more poles, podiums and wins. You even argue when I agree with!

Yes, Ricciardo deserved the Merc seat but he didn’t get it for team unity reasons, you know what they are but let’s go with what you believe. To protect Lewis because he’s not really that good... saves another 10 pages of your usual ranting

DRic deserved the RedBull seat but they offered him a fraction of what they gave Max in a massive 5yr contract. They disrespect him. Mugged him off they did, kneecapped (your word ) hun Sparta. He would’ve been Max’s rear gunner. Max’s bh!
You don’t moan about that though do you?
RedBull have form, they did the same to Weber.

Vettel jumps/pushed and oh look, there’s seat free at Ferrari. A top top team. Surely your boy DRic is a shoe in, the definition of a no brainer. He deserves the seat but wait!!! Oh, Sainz! Carlos got the ride. He’s good but surely your boy is better and you’ll be straight on here enraged, Leclerc is protected but nope, nothing. Not a peep* but here you are again banging on about the same old same old.

• You may have moaned, and I mean as strongly as you have about Bottas/Hamilton, but I can’t be arse to search through your mostly banal posts... ‘mostly‘ to give you a lil credit.

We would all like to see 6 world/potential world champs in the top three teams but it’s about team harmony. It’s how it’s been for a long time. Certainly since Hamilton/Alonso.
Back in the Hakinnen at Mclaren... Coulthard told of a meeting he was in with Dennis and Hakinnen. Dennis said to Mika, what are we going to do... at the moment he knew he was just the other driver.

Team harmony Sparta. Merc do it. RedBull and especially Ferrari have been doing it for years. You. Know. This. Just open your mind, a bit. Just try.

That's quite a rant

Albon has displayed great racecraft and will give Max a run for his money. Red Bull allows it's drivers to race each other on track.
Ditto Ferrari.
Sainz may well surprise LeClerc over an entire season

[sparta6]

A44RON said:

It's all about power-to-weight, physics cannot be beaten.

Ferrari F2004: power: 960bhp+
weight including driver and fuel: 605kg (the V10 engine weighed only 86kg)

2019 Mercedes W10 EQ: power: 810bhp + temporary 160bhp MGU-H boost
weight including driver: 743kg (the PU weighs a combined 140kg)

All of the hybrid-era lap records are due to cars pitting for fresh super-soft slick tyres during the final few laps of the race and going maximum attack with minimal fuel onboard - ie only a handful of laps fuel remaining. Combine that with the new super-soft slicks and 15 years extra tech advancements they should be breaking all the lap records. But they haven't.

And yet, the majority are still held by the 2004-2005 V10s. Despite the V10s having technology that is now 15 years old, less aerodynamics & aero grip than the hybrid era and they were using grooved tyres back then too. Also, if you look at total race times, the V10s absolutely still crush last year's cars, even with pitting 1-2 times more per race for refuelling, which adds another 20+ seconds per pit stop. Back then it was essentially sprint races with the fastest laps of the race almost on par with the pole position times from qualifying... unlike today with all of the tyre and engine management. The drivers during the V10 era always got out of the cars drenched in sweat at every race. You only see that during the hybrid era at the humid countries.

The above also links in with costs and why they can't afford to return to sprint races while running these expensive hybrid engines - hence why even being restricted to three PUs/engines per year. Somone on here posted a few weeks ago that during the most expensive period of the V10 era 2002-2004, teams were using multiple engines every race weekend, spare cars in the garages, loads of test-days throughout the year etc... and despite all of that, Jordan's annual budget was only £40 million per year and race-winning teams budgets were £150 million+ per year... Williams annual budget 2017-2019 was £150 million per year! To be (by far) the slowest team on the grid. There's progress for you.

Edited by A44RON on Monday 15th June 05:52

Lighter, cheaper, faster. Plus a compelling soundtrack.
What's not to like about V10's ?

[HustleRussell]

sparta6 said:

A44RON said:

It's all about power-to-weight, physics cannot be beaten.

Ferrari F2004: power: 960bhp+
weight including driver and fuel: 605kg (the V10 engine weighed only 86kg)

2019 Mercedes W10 EQ: power: 810bhp + temporary 160bhp MGU-H boost
weight including driver: 743kg (the PU weighs a combined 140kg)

All of the hybrid-era lap records are due to cars pitting for fresh super-soft slick tyres during the final few laps of the race and going maximum attack with minimal fuel onboard - ie only a handful of laps fuel remaining. Combine that with the new super-soft slicks and 15 years extra tech advancements they should be breaking all the lap records. But they haven't.

And yet, the majority are still held by the 2004-2005 V10s. Despite the V10s having technology that is now 15 years old, less aerodynamics & aero grip than the hybrid era and they were using grooved tyres back then too. Also, if you look at total race times, the V10s absolutely still crush last year's cars, even with pitting 1-2 times more per race for refuelling, which adds another 20+ seconds per pit stop. Back then it was essentially sprint races with the fastest laps of the race almost on par with the pole position times from qualifying... unlike today with all of the tyre and engine management. The drivers during the V10 era always got out of the cars drenched in sweat at every race. You only see that during the hybrid era at the humid countries.

The above also links in with costs and why they can't afford to return to sprint races while running these expensive hybrid engines - hence why even being restricted to three PUs/engines per year. Somone on here posted a few weeks ago that during the most expensive period of the V10 era 2002-2004, teams were using multiple engines every race weekend, spare cars in the garages, loads of test-days throughout the year etc... and despite all of that, Jordan's annual budget was only £40 million per year and race-winning teams budgets were £150 million+ per year... Williams annual budget 2017-2019 was £150 million per year! To be (by far) the slowest team on the grid. There's progress for you.

Lighter, cheaper, faster. Plus a compelling soundtrack.
What's not to like about V10's ?

Lighter, yes- but even if the weight difference is 54kg as stated, it is considerably less than half the weight gain seen in the cars in the intervening 15 years.

Cheaper- entirely new engine concept vs. the ones we already have? cheaper? think not.

Faster- with no refueling and maximum 100kg/hour fuel flow?

What's not to like? well, the fact they are from 15 years ago, the fact that we'd lose a minimum of two engine manufacturers / constructors, the fact that the engine parity gap would open up again and ruin the racing for seasons to come, the fact that we'd inevitably have to re-introduce pitlane refueling and the fact that the sport would go from the cutting edge to being a nostalgic irrelevance whose time is numbered.

S5000 exists remember?

[sparta6]

HustleRussell said:

sparta6 said:

A44RON said:

It's all about power-to-weight, physics cannot be beaten.

Ferrari F2004: power: 960bhp+
weight including driver and fuel: 605kg (the V10 engine weighed only 86kg)

2019 Mercedes W10 EQ: power: 810bhp + temporary 160bhp MGU-H boost
weight including driver: 743kg (the PU weighs a combined 140kg)

All of the hybrid-era lap records are due to cars pitting for fresh super-soft slick tyres during the final few laps of the race and going maximum attack with minimal fuel onboard - ie only a handful of laps fuel remaining. Combine that with the new super-soft slicks and 15 years extra tech advancements they should be breaking all the lap records. But they haven't.

And yet, the majority are still held by the 2004-2005 V10s. Despite the V10s having technology that is now 15 years old, less aerodynamics & aero grip than the hybrid era and they were using grooved tyres back then too. Also, if you look at total race times, the V10s absolutely still crush last year's cars, even with pitting 1-2 times more per race for refuelling, which adds another 20+ seconds per pit stop. Back then it was essentially sprint races with the fastest laps of the race almost on par with the pole position times from qualifying... unlike today with all of the tyre and engine management. The drivers during the V10 era always got out of the cars drenched in sweat at every race. You only see that during the hybrid era at the humid countries.

The above also links in with costs and why they can't afford to return to sprint races while running these expensive hybrid engines - hence why even being restricted to three PUs/engines per year. Somone on here posted a few weeks ago that during the most expensive period of the V10 era 2002-2004, teams were using multiple engines every race weekend, spare cars in the garages, loads of test-days throughout the year etc... and despite all of that, Jordan's annual budget was only £40 million per year and race-winning teams budgets were £150 million+ per year... Williams annual budget 2017-2019 was £150 million per year! To be (by far) the slowest team on the grid. There's progress for you.

Lighter, cheaper, faster. Plus a compelling soundtrack.
What's not to like about V10's ?

Lighter, yes- but even if the weight difference is 54kg as stated, it is considerably less than half the weight gain seen in the cars in the intervening 15 years.

Cheaper- entirely new engine concept vs. the ones we already have? cheaper? think not.

Faster- with no refueling and maximum 100kg/hour fuel flow?

What's not to like? well, the fact they are from 15 years ago, the fact that we'd lose a minimum of two engine manufacturers / constructors, the fact that the engine parity gap would open up again and ruin the racing for seasons to come, the fact that we'd inevitably have to re-introduce pitlane refueling and the fact that the sport would go from the cutting edge to being a nostalgic irrelevance whose time is numbered.

S5000 exists remember?

Cutting edge and progress ?
£150k turbos that are thrown into the trash bin after a few miles.
A team of 12 people to start the car up.
Sound like crap.
Hardly relevant to Auntie Pauline's daily driver. Why F1 wants to try and be "relevant" is a rather abstract concept.

Meanwhile V10's and V12's remain the most exciting and coveted engines for street cars.
Porsche have even taken it one step further by introducing a manual shift for its shiny new 992.

Relevance for Auntie Pauline ? Certainly not

[HustleRussell]

sparta6 said:

Cutting edge and progress ?
£150k turbos that are thrown into the trash bin after a few miles.
A team of 12 people to start the car up.
Sound like crap.
Hardly relevant to Auntie Pauline's daily driver. Why F1 wants to try and be "relevant" is a rather abstract concept.

Meanwhile V10's and V12's remain the most exciting and coveted engines for street cars.
Porsche have even taken it one step further by introducing a manual shift for its shiny new 992.

Relevance for Auntie Pauline ? Certainly not

You seem to have a really short and selective memory which is making this conversation pretty circular e.g. you forget that those turbos go probably 10x further than the V10 engines ever did

[TheDeuce]

sparta6 said:

Cutting edge and progress ?
£150k turbos that are thrown into the trash bin after a few miles.
A team of 12 people to start the car up.
Sound like crap.
Hardly relevant to Auntie Pauline's daily driver. Why F1 wants to try and be "relevant" is a rather abstract concept.

Meanwhile V10's and V12's remain the most exciting and coveted engines for street cars.
Porsche have even taken it one step further by introducing a manual shift for its shiny new 992.

Relevance for Auntie Pauline ? Certainly not

It's relevant in terms of the message and direction. The vast majority of viewers are casual and don't think about the details, they just understand that these days even F1 cars are hybrid. Job done.

Also if you really DO want to think about it depth, you will realise that despite the cost of parts and the fuel used to transport the show around the world, it's actually far more efficient on a per viewer basis than your auntie taking a 5 minute drive to see a friend.

[anonymous-user]

This is Formula One, everything is built to the "formula", i.e. the rules.

It's dumb comparing different formulas.

[HighwayStar]

sparta6 said:

HighwayStar said:

sparta6 said:

HighwayStar said:

fk me, re Bottas... did I say he’s equal to Hamilton, Max or The Monegasque...? You’re literally agreeing with me. He did ok at Williams before their slide.. manage to get on the podium.

Edited by HighwayStar on Sunday 14th June 15:21

I compared Albon to Bottas.
Albon has far more racecraft.
Bottas only got the Merc seat as he was managed by Toto at the time (££), and no threat to Lewis.
Bottas doesn't deserve a Merc seat, but Ricciardo does.

You picked the wrong quote of mine.. I also said...

Bottas is a decent driver, just not shown the capability to go the distance, put it together over a whole season.

I’ll explain it to you... on his day he can grab a pole, win a race but, pay attention now Sparta... that bit in bold basically says he doesn’t have the race craft otherwise in that car he’d have been fight for more poles, podiums and wins. You even argue when I agree with!

Yes, Ricciardo deserved the Merc seat but he didn’t get it for team unity reasons, you know what they are but let’s go with what you believe. To protect Lewis because he’s not really that good... saves another 10 pages of your usual ranting

DRic deserved the RedBull seat but they offered him a fraction of what they gave Max in a massive 5yr contract. They disrespect him. Mugged him off they did, kneecapped (your word ) hun Sparta. He would’ve been Max’s rear gunner. Max’s bh!
You don’t moan about that though do you?
RedBull have form, they did the same to Weber.

Vettel jumps/pushed and oh look, there’s seat free at Ferrari. A top top team. Surely your boy DRic is a shoe in, the definition of a no brainer. He deserves the seat but wait!!! Oh, Sainz! Carlos got the ride. He’s good but surely your boy is better and you’ll be straight on here enraged, Leclerc is protected but nope, nothing. Not a peep* but here you are again banging on about the same old same old.

• You may have moaned, and I mean as strongly as you have about Bottas/Hamilton, but I can’t be arse to search through your mostly banal posts... ‘mostly‘ to give you a lil credit.

We would all like to see 6 world/potential world champs in the top three teams but it’s about team harmony. It’s how it’s been for a long time. Certainly since Hamilton/Alonso.
Back in the Hakinnen at Mclaren... Coulthard told of a meeting he was in with Dennis and Hakinnen. Dennis said to Mika, what are we going to do... at the moment he knew he was just the other driver.

Team harmony Sparta. Merc do it. RedBull and especially Ferrari have been doing it for years. You. Know. This. Just open your mind, a bit. Just try.

That's quite a rant

Albon has displayed great racecraft and will give Max a run for his money. Red Bull allows it's drivers to race each other on track.
Ditto Ferrari.
Sainz may well surprise LeClerc over an entire season

Nice swerve...

[sparta6]

jsf said:

This is Formula One, everything is built to the "formula", i.e. the rules.

It's dumb comparing different formulas.

Agreed.

But even these sound better than the current hybrids
https://www.instagram.com/p/CAfe7p2A_k9/

[anonymous-user]

sparta6 said:

Agreed.

But even these sound better than the current hybrids
https://www.instagram.com/p/CAfe7p2A_k9/

They don't, that's my idea of hell.

[A44RON]

HustleRussell said:

A44RON said:

I see what you're saying, but the hybrids are so expensive and fragile, that if they did make it more of a sprint-race like it used to be (I would love to see it go back to that) then the costs would sky-rocket even higher than they are now and they would need a PU every race weekend... when the V10s pitted for fuel and tyres, they were still pumping in qualy-pace lap times with 20+ laps fuel on board with their fresh tyres, compared to 1-5 laps left of onboard fuel for the hybrids when they bang in their fastest laps.

The hybrids aren't actually particularly expensive for the customers and are certainly not fragile seeing as they are doing full seasons on three units. This is only an opinion but despite the above, the finishing rate doesn't appear to currently be much worse than in the V8 era?

The hybrids are more expensive - did you read my previous post to this?

"during the most expensive period of the V10 era 2002-2004, teams were using multiple engines every race weekend, spare cars in the garages, loads of test-days throughout the year etc... and despite all of that, Jordan's annual budget was only £40 million per year and race-winning teams budgets were £150 million+ per year... Williams annual budget 2017-2019 was £150 million per year! To be (by far) the slowest team on the grid. There's progress for you."

Hybrids are doing full seasons on 3-4 PUs because they have to be managed. The hybrid era is much more expensive, it's just a fact.