Garages Ripping People off, or trying to
Discussion
What is it these days with garages? I know there will always be good ones and bad ones, but it seems like it's almost endemic these days, with trying to add stuff that doesn't really need doing.
Yesterday I took my Mercedes E Class (2015 vintage) to a local garage as the brake pad sensor warning had gone off.
I don't take it to a main stealer as the value doesn't warrant it. And I know their labour costs!
It was the first time I'd taken it to this particular garage as it was convenient to my office. I can change disks and pads but I figured for 150-200 quid it would save me the bother.
Checks the car in, 30 minutes later get a call, "your car needs discs and pads all round and new hand brake shoes on the rear as well as the sensors, your pads are about 90% worn all round".
To do that lot it'll be £809.77.
I said "really? that's strange as I checked the discs and pads at the weekend and the rears had more than 50% of the pad left, and the discs, albeit had a slight lip on them, but nowhere near the point of needing replacing".
Garage: "yeah, but that's the outside, they're worn badly on the inside".
Me: "Can you check if the sensor wire is broken on both sides or just the one, as I think the pads have plenty of life in them as well at the front" (knowing full well there's only one sensor at the front).
So he calls me back and says, "the sensor wire on the drivers side is intact, so the sensor is activated as the pads are worn. As I said before, the pads are 90% worn" (I was advised by a Merc mechanic that the sensor is activated at about 80% worn).
I said "thanks, but as the cost is quite large I'll do them myself".
I pick up my car and the wheels haven't been off (they never even asked where the locking wheel nuts were), I can only assume that they shone a torch on the pads and figured that I should have them all changed.
The ironic thing is, as my car is an auto, I never use the parking brake, and haven't in the 3 years I've had the car, so how the brake shoes could be worn I don't know! Especially they wouldn't be able to check them without taking the wheels off.
We had another garage recent try and charge 4 hour labour for changing the rear spring on the missus ML. When Mercedes themselves took 20 minutes to do the other side previously.
Is it a sign of the times? everyone is hard up and is trying to make more money off those who can pay, or am I just unlucky?
Will get the wheels off my car at the weekend and check myself and order the pads (and maybe discs and brake shoes) and spend a few hours changing them.
Even if my car does need all those parts (highly unlikely) I'll still be saving myself 400 quid in labour costs.
Which again is excessive. Even at £100 an hour changing that lot won't take 4 hours!
I believe their labour cost is £75 per hour, so they're charging me for almost 5 1/2 hours labour!
Rant over.
Yesterday I took my Mercedes E Class (2015 vintage) to a local garage as the brake pad sensor warning had gone off.
I don't take it to a main stealer as the value doesn't warrant it. And I know their labour costs!
It was the first time I'd taken it to this particular garage as it was convenient to my office. I can change disks and pads but I figured for 150-200 quid it would save me the bother.
Checks the car in, 30 minutes later get a call, "your car needs discs and pads all round and new hand brake shoes on the rear as well as the sensors, your pads are about 90% worn all round".
To do that lot it'll be £809.77.
I said "really? that's strange as I checked the discs and pads at the weekend and the rears had more than 50% of the pad left, and the discs, albeit had a slight lip on them, but nowhere near the point of needing replacing".
Garage: "yeah, but that's the outside, they're worn badly on the inside".
Me: "Can you check if the sensor wire is broken on both sides or just the one, as I think the pads have plenty of life in them as well at the front" (knowing full well there's only one sensor at the front).
So he calls me back and says, "the sensor wire on the drivers side is intact, so the sensor is activated as the pads are worn. As I said before, the pads are 90% worn" (I was advised by a Merc mechanic that the sensor is activated at about 80% worn).
I said "thanks, but as the cost is quite large I'll do them myself".
I pick up my car and the wheels haven't been off (they never even asked where the locking wheel nuts were), I can only assume that they shone a torch on the pads and figured that I should have them all changed.
The ironic thing is, as my car is an auto, I never use the parking brake, and haven't in the 3 years I've had the car, so how the brake shoes could be worn I don't know! Especially they wouldn't be able to check them without taking the wheels off.
We had another garage recent try and charge 4 hour labour for changing the rear spring on the missus ML. When Mercedes themselves took 20 minutes to do the other side previously.
Is it a sign of the times? everyone is hard up and is trying to make more money off those who can pay, or am I just unlucky?
Will get the wheels off my car at the weekend and check myself and order the pads (and maybe discs and brake shoes) and spend a few hours changing them.
Even if my car does need all those parts (highly unlikely) I'll still be saving myself 400 quid in labour costs.
Which again is excessive. Even at £100 an hour changing that lot won't take 4 hours!
I believe their labour cost is £75 per hour, so they're charging me for almost 5 1/2 hours labour!
Rant over.
In any game, there are garages trying to rip people off. Menu pricing is popular with a brand of garages that fix your vehicle Kwikly. Spring and shock need doing at the same time? You're now paying double labour for the same job. I've seen garages that look like you'll have your organs recycled if you step foot in them want to charge £350/hr!
Likewise, there are good garages that would have a look, replace the sensor and charge you no labour in hopes of having you come back next time you need something. They'll price it fairly and you get good service. When you find one, hold on to them!
Likewise, there are good garages that would have a look, replace the sensor and charge you no labour in hopes of having you come back next time you need something. They'll price it fairly and you get good service. When you find one, hold on to them!
The other pain I find with trying to find a decent garage (recently moved area), is when you ask a set of non-car people where they take theirs, you get a recommendation and it turns out they're absolutely rubbish and the only reason they were recommended is because they'd see you short notice!
Gavin0478 said:
I would advise that you will need new handbrake shoes as you often find with drum in disc brakes that the handbrake shoes crumble when you remove the rear discs and the adjuster mechanism can be a pain too as you have admitted you hardly use the handbrake.
Yep - I've had this twice. Both times Volvos. Though once it happened before a brake change. Luckily it happened moving the car at home (handbrake stuck on and locked a rear wheel due to loose shoe material) so I was able to get the bits and fix it myself. Second time was as you say - doing a pad and disc change on the rear. Hammered the disc loose, and it came off with the brake shoe material loose. Luckily I'd bought the shoes to replace also.Geoffcapes said:
The trouble is finding them. And when you do find them, they have a 3-4 week wait for work to be done.
Good, cheap and fast... Pick any two.I like to think I'm pretty good at picking good garages but the trade off is that there is a waiting list for them.
I generally find that being polite and respectful generally gets you good service. Also a bit understanding, loads of things are outside of their control (parts, equipment) and that they've other customers to service (I tend to leave the car with them for a day or two so they can work on it between jobs).
I'm no mechanic but I do know enough to know when someone is feeding me a line..
I’ve found that, had a LR ‘specialist’ diagnose a slight knock as the rear subframe and it would be £2.5k. Then after telling them I’d rather sell the car the knock moved to a shock absorber and was now far more reasonably priced. And the same with trades. I’ve always done all my own work around the house because it was a faff getting tradesmen to quote or turn up.
But then I decided I’d rather pay someone to do these jobs as I couldn’t be arsed - until I got some quotes! They all just seemed to be taking the piss, so now I’m doing all the jobs myself again.
Life must get expensive for those without the skills / time / tools.
But then I decided I’d rather pay someone to do these jobs as I couldn’t be arsed - until I got some quotes! They all just seemed to be taking the piss, so now I’m doing all the jobs myself again.
Life must get expensive for those without the skills / time / tools.
Crumpet said:
I’ve found that, had a LR ‘specialist’ diagnose a slight knock as the rear subframe and it would be £2.5k. Then after telling them I’d rather sell the car the knock moved to a shock absorber and was now far more reasonably priced. And the same with trades. I’ve always done all my own work around the house because it was a faff getting tradesmen to quote or turn up.
But then I decided I’d rather pay someone to do these jobs as I couldn’t be arsed - until I got some quotes! They all just seemed to be taking the piss, so now I’m doing all the jobs myself again.
Life must get expensive for those without the skills / time / tools.
It has taken me 4 years to find a decent LR specialist and they were actually only a few miles away. They don't advertise or do social media, as they get more than enough work through word of mouth, and they are tucked in the back corner of an industrial estate. They just did my cambelt for 2/3 the price of anywhere else and even replaced a couple of oil seals while they were in there, and only charged the cost of the seals. They also let me know the radiator was slightly damp in one corner and needed replacing sometime. Only trouble is, as previously mentioned, is there is a 3 week waiting list.But then I decided I’d rather pay someone to do these jobs as I couldn’t be arsed - until I got some quotes! They all just seemed to be taking the piss, so now I’m doing all the jobs myself again.
Life must get expensive for those without the skills / time / tools.
captain_cynic said:
Good, cheap and fast... Pick any two.
I like to think I'm pretty good at picking good garages but the trade off is that there is a waiting list for them.
I generally find that being polite and respectful generally gets you good service. Also a bit understanding, loads of things are outside of their control (parts, equipment) and that they've other customers to service (I tend to leave the car with them for a day or two so they can work on it between jobs).
I'm no mechanic but I do know enough to know when someone is feeding me a line..
Good and cheap please I like to think I'm pretty good at picking good garages but the trade off is that there is a waiting list for them.
I generally find that being polite and respectful generally gets you good service. Also a bit understanding, loads of things are outside of their control (parts, equipment) and that they've other customers to service (I tend to leave the car with them for a day or two so they can work on it between jobs).
I'm no mechanic but I do know enough to know when someone is feeding me a line..
I've lived the same area for a while and found some good trustworthy garages, one near home and one near work, plus a couple of specialists for when I need something more involved (Gearbox rebuild). What always sets them all apart is a willing to talk though issues, offer sensible solutions and if anything goes wrong, taking time to put it right, quickly.
The one near home is not the smartest garage in the world, so people I've recommended it to are reluctant to go there in favour in somewhere with a nice big glass office and smart waiting room.
The one near home is not the smartest garage in the world, so people I've recommended it to are reluctant to go there in favour in somewhere with a nice big glass office and smart waiting room.
Wife took car to an authorised repair place recently that was both comically bad and insanely priced and I genuinely don't think the people working there thought they were doing anything wrong or badly.
They were asked to do 6 things: replace the gas struts in the hatchback, sort out the driver's side washer jet, get the HUD to raise/lower, fix fuel guage, replace front offside wheel bearing and see if they could figure out why the car very occasionally fails to engage reverse.
They said there was nothing wrong with the fuel guage. Clearly there is because it always reads zero, even though the range prediction still works fine. They failed to adjust the washer jet correctly. They failed to fit the gas struts. They announced that they got a fault code, didn't know what it meant, asked the manufacturer, and recommended replacing an actuator module for £2.5k because that "might" fix it. What's actually wrong with the actuator? "Don't know." Then are you confident that relaxing it will fix the problem. "No."
Basically they think they're mechanics, but they aren't. They can't diagnose anything. They can't fix anything. All they do is replace parts. Except for gas struts and washer jets. And they don't seem to recognise that that is pathetic and that the prices they charge are unreasonable.
I think the message has finally got home to wife and MiL that you're looking for competence, not a shiny reception area. Fortunately we've got a local independent two man band who are actually interested in figuring stuff out and fixing things. So they offer a far, far higher quality of service than the other place and they're also much cheaper.
They were asked to do 6 things: replace the gas struts in the hatchback, sort out the driver's side washer jet, get the HUD to raise/lower, fix fuel guage, replace front offside wheel bearing and see if they could figure out why the car very occasionally fails to engage reverse.
They said there was nothing wrong with the fuel guage. Clearly there is because it always reads zero, even though the range prediction still works fine. They failed to adjust the washer jet correctly. They failed to fit the gas struts. They announced that they got a fault code, didn't know what it meant, asked the manufacturer, and recommended replacing an actuator module for £2.5k because that "might" fix it. What's actually wrong with the actuator? "Don't know." Then are you confident that relaxing it will fix the problem. "No."
Basically they think they're mechanics, but they aren't. They can't diagnose anything. They can't fix anything. All they do is replace parts. Except for gas struts and washer jets. And they don't seem to recognise that that is pathetic and that the prices they charge are unreasonable.
I think the message has finally got home to wife and MiL that you're looking for competence, not a shiny reception area. Fortunately we've got a local independent two man band who are actually interested in figuring stuff out and fixing things. So they offer a far, far higher quality of service than the other place and they're also much cheaper.
I've examples of both good and bad. I was having my BMW serviced at the main dealer in Coventry. I overheard the service lady speaking to another customer explaining that the brakes were worn but probably wouldn't need replacing till the next service.
Conversely a certain speedy fitting place tried to tell a colleague he needed new calipers, discs and pads when only the pads were worn.
Buyer beware....
Conversely a certain speedy fitting place tried to tell a colleague he needed new calipers, discs and pads when only the pads were worn.
Buyer beware....
I used to take my Merc to a main dealer mainly because they would loan me a car while mine was being dealt with. It was expensive, yes but I had no alternatives as I needed a car and the work was always warrantied. Truth is, it was a hassle-free experience back then but then another Merc dealership in the area closed forcing more customers to use "my" dealership, and then the availability of loan cars fell.
When I moved house 2 years ago, my new location put me within cycling distance of an independent garage who came well recommended, and despite my car being quite complex (GL), they have been absolutely great. The additional benefits that I get in regards to a 10 mile bike ride when I drop off the car and collect it, and that I'm paying around half what Mercedes used to charge make it all the happier.
The only downside is that the new place tends to use 3rd party components rather than genuine Merc parts where 3rd party components exist. I'm OK with that for some - I take a pragmatic approach for disks and pads - but for others I do have to insist on them using my choice.
When I moved house 2 years ago, my new location put me within cycling distance of an independent garage who came well recommended, and despite my car being quite complex (GL), they have been absolutely great. The additional benefits that I get in regards to a 10 mile bike ride when I drop off the car and collect it, and that I'm paying around half what Mercedes used to charge make it all the happier.
The only downside is that the new place tends to use 3rd party components rather than genuine Merc parts where 3rd party components exist. I'm OK with that for some - I take a pragmatic approach for disks and pads - but for others I do have to insist on them using my choice.
Mars said:
The only downside is that the new place tends to use 3rd party components rather than genuine Merc parts where 3rd party components exist. I'm OK with that for some - I take a pragmatic approach for disks and pads - but for others I do have to insist on them using my choice.
I've never met a garage not willing to fit genuine parts on request, only garages not willing to fit cheap rubbish or any 3rd party parts at all. The garage get paid the same money at the end of the day. Gavin0478 said:
I would advise that you will need new handbrake shoes as you often find with drum in disc brakes that the handbrake shoes crumble when you remove the rear discs and the adjuster mechanism can be a pain too as you have admitted you hardly use the handbrake.
Yes, I've heard that it's prudent to replace the handbrake shoes at the same time as the discs. Again, not really a tricky job either. The thing is, the discs don't need replacing. and the pads have 50% life in them!
My worst ripoff attempt was back in the late 80s, I had a V12 series 3 Jag.
The auto box was a 3 speed, (quite funny now with 9 speed autos.)
Anyway it stopped changing gear unless you were hitting the red line, not great in
a V12 that struggled for 10mpg at the best of times.
So my local Jag main dealer looks at it and tells me I need a new gearbox, the
cost way more than the car was worth.
So I find a local independent, I arrive and he’s working on a car and doesn’t even look at me.
I explain the problem and he asks if I’m capable of jacking the car up, yes I say.
He sends me off to the local car parts place to buy 3’ of 1/4” rubber pipe.
There was a push fit vacuum pipe that rubbed on a heat shield that you could reach by
jacking the car up a few inches. Gearbox sorted.
The auto box was a 3 speed, (quite funny now with 9 speed autos.)
Anyway it stopped changing gear unless you were hitting the red line, not great in
a V12 that struggled for 10mpg at the best of times.
So my local Jag main dealer looks at it and tells me I need a new gearbox, the
cost way more than the car was worth.
So I find a local independent, I arrive and he’s working on a car and doesn’t even look at me.
I explain the problem and he asks if I’m capable of jacking the car up, yes I say.
He sends me off to the local car parts place to buy 3’ of 1/4” rubber pipe.
There was a push fit vacuum pipe that rubbed on a heat shield that you could reach by
jacking the car up a few inches. Gearbox sorted.
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