Has modern supercar ownership become NAFF and irrelevant?
Discussion
Another vaguely related observation is that they've managed to make modern cars dull in computer games now.
I play a lot of Assetto Corsa. It amuses me. Driving the modern cars in that is just so frighteningly tedious and it's no challenge because they all just go FAST all the time. However, try racing in a Mazda 787b, Sauber C9, Maserati 250F or Lotus 98T and it's great fun - it actually needs genuine effort, thought and consideration. It's how it should be.
I play a lot of Assetto Corsa. It amuses me. Driving the modern cars in that is just so frighteningly tedious and it's no challenge because they all just go FAST all the time. However, try racing in a Mazda 787b, Sauber C9, Maserati 250F or Lotus 98T and it's great fun - it actually needs genuine effort, thought and consideration. It's how it should be.
Interesting thread.
Imo quite probably.
That is why the 'junior supercar' I.e. GT4, 981 Spyder etc has been so well received. Relatively compact, great value, cheap to run, usable, fast enough, involving, relatively analogue, 'manuel' gearbox and good premiums too being the icing on the cake. More fun hustling a GT4 along a typical fast UK driving road (e.g. in Cumbria and Yorkshire) than a lardy and over sythensised 458/Hurracan etc etc. Gt4 even beat the esteemed 991 GT3RS and Mclaren on ecoty....these cars typically only giving you more of what you can't 'legally' use on the road.
Porsche GT division are now virtually guaranteed to introduce more cars with 'manuel' gearbox and relatively 'back to basics 'ethos. Perfectly captured the craving for modern day interactive accessible driving at a sensible price with a retro touch....effectively making the traditional overpriced supercar only really suitable for increasing common London cruising or Sunday pub jaunts.
Imo quite probably.
That is why the 'junior supercar' I.e. GT4, 981 Spyder etc has been so well received. Relatively compact, great value, cheap to run, usable, fast enough, involving, relatively analogue, 'manuel' gearbox and good premiums too being the icing on the cake. More fun hustling a GT4 along a typical fast UK driving road (e.g. in Cumbria and Yorkshire) than a lardy and over sythensised 458/Hurracan etc etc. Gt4 even beat the esteemed 991 GT3RS and Mclaren on ecoty....these cars typically only giving you more of what you can't 'legally' use on the road.
Porsche GT division are now virtually guaranteed to introduce more cars with 'manuel' gearbox and relatively 'back to basics 'ethos. Perfectly captured the craving for modern day interactive accessible driving at a sensible price with a retro touch....effectively making the traditional overpriced supercar only really suitable for increasing common London cruising or Sunday pub jaunts.
Edited by av185 on Monday 1st August 23:53
It's this bizarre cycle of "progress" isn't it?
Each new generation has to be "better" than the one before, which invariably means bigger, faster, more luxurious, more expensive.
So, for example, you have a 3 series that gets bigger and more expensive, until it basically becomes what the 5 series used to be. So then they have to bring out a 1 series, which is what the 3 series really was....
Or for many supercar makers, their former "junior" supercars have moved so far upmarket that they now have entry level models. The Cayman GT4 is only allowed to exist because once upon a time 65K got you a very well specced 911, whereas now you'd need 100k. But then the Boxster used to be 30K, now it's not, so now there's talk of a newer junior 911. Etc....
Each new generation has to be "better" than the one before, which invariably means bigger, faster, more luxurious, more expensive.
So, for example, you have a 3 series that gets bigger and more expensive, until it basically becomes what the 5 series used to be. So then they have to bring out a 1 series, which is what the 3 series really was....
Or for many supercar makers, their former "junior" supercars have moved so far upmarket that they now have entry level models. The Cayman GT4 is only allowed to exist because once upon a time 65K got you a very well specced 911, whereas now you'd need 100k. But then the Boxster used to be 30K, now it's not, so now there's talk of a newer junior 911. Etc....
Murcielago_Boy said:
f
k me thats tragic..Whats up with that generation is this what instagram and the kardashians has done to their brains
I mean apologies to any young ph'ers with taste in cars and a spine (im 27)
I do see the odd 458 but i dont get feel any real emotion towards the cars, I saw a 355 a few years back and i got a bit over the top excited about that, Likewise i can remember seeing a maserati 4200 on holiday in france when i was younger and that blew me away tbf..
Some accountant round here has a mint capri 280 brooklands, He was just climbing in and i couldnt help blurting out ''nice car mate'' it not my style normally haha, He thanked me profusely anyway while looking flabbergasted , Car was a lovely thing such a nice green.
If i happened to spot an FF though but only in the alps with skis on the roof
Edited by DegsyE39 on Tuesday 2nd August 01:10
The answer is twofold imho;
-It's entirely possible to own, drive regularly and enjoy a modern supercar while remaining a true gentleman.
-You are battling against an increasingly large percentage (majority?) of modern supercar owners who are tarty, nouveau-riche attention wh*res (particularly in central London) who drag the image/ perception of modern supercar owners down.
In short, owning and using a modern supercar doesn't have to be 'naff and irrelevant' for you as an individual, but greater care is required to avoid being perceived as such (if people's perception matters to you). Driving tastefully in the city (avoiding high revs, not driving aggressively, making an effort to be courteous) takes care of the perception problem, unless you have gone all 'Kuwait' with exterior mods ofcourse... owning an Aventador is fine, revving the arse off it outside Harvey Nics while showing off your new holographic 'wrap' is not.
As to being irrelevant... that's a harder one to make a positive argument for. The rate of progress is such that modern supercars are easily capable of speeds that not-much-older supercars could only dream of. As OP mentioned, you are also more likely to be 'caught'/ heavily penalised for your high-speed indiscretions. Try to enjoy the performance as responsibly as possible when out of the city, and save the on-the-limit stuff for trackdays I guess.
Living in central London and owning a modern supercar is a dream for many. It's easy for me to say, but I'd simply try my best to behave as a gentleman and seize any opportunity to enjoy my supercar, even if that means rarely getting near the limit... so long as YOU don't consider it naff/ irrelevant then sod what anyone else thinks.
-It's entirely possible to own, drive regularly and enjoy a modern supercar while remaining a true gentleman.
-You are battling against an increasingly large percentage (majority?) of modern supercar owners who are tarty, nouveau-riche attention wh*res (particularly in central London) who drag the image/ perception of modern supercar owners down.
In short, owning and using a modern supercar doesn't have to be 'naff and irrelevant' for you as an individual, but greater care is required to avoid being perceived as such (if people's perception matters to you). Driving tastefully in the city (avoiding high revs, not driving aggressively, making an effort to be courteous) takes care of the perception problem, unless you have gone all 'Kuwait' with exterior mods ofcourse... owning an Aventador is fine, revving the arse off it outside Harvey Nics while showing off your new holographic 'wrap' is not.
As to being irrelevant... that's a harder one to make a positive argument for. The rate of progress is such that modern supercars are easily capable of speeds that not-much-older supercars could only dream of. As OP mentioned, you are also more likely to be 'caught'/ heavily penalised for your high-speed indiscretions. Try to enjoy the performance as responsibly as possible when out of the city, and save the on-the-limit stuff for trackdays I guess.
Living in central London and owning a modern supercar is a dream for many. It's easy for me to say, but I'd simply try my best to behave as a gentleman and seize any opportunity to enjoy my supercar, even if that means rarely getting near the limit... so long as YOU don't consider it naff/ irrelevant then sod what anyone else thinks.
What a depressing thread. Perhaps people lack imagination, but despite living in central London, my ownership experience has been entirely positive. been to a couple of 'meets' which were interesting but aren't really my thing, have done some track days and charity days and had some wonderful drives in the UK.
The general public seem to have much more of a sense of wonderment at a supercar than most of the respondents on here who seem to think they are a dime a dozen, naff and tragic.
When out driving, I get asked questions, get thumbs up from drivers and motorbike riders, occasionally asked to rev it and plenty of 'nice car mate' comments. Attention and sharing the experience is part of the ownership proposition, you don't have to seek it, but its part of the package.
I agree you don't need to seek attention by reving the car like a prat - most supercars tend to stand out from the crowd by themselves - but the gold wrapped flame shooting London lambos are a tiny minority in my experience. Most owners I have meet are mad about their cars and look after them like one of their children.
In my case, the real reason I bought the car is to drive it, specifically for European drives - in a couple of weeks I'm doing a 3500 mile trip to Corsica and back via the Italian, French and Swiss alps - the memories I'll have from this trip and ones like it are why I have such a car. for the rest of the year I'll be looking forward to the next trip whist remembering the enjoyment of the previous one. I like to savour the experience, I couldn't use a supercar as a daily-driver.
Hence I don't drive the car that much in the UK, but every time I do it's still an occasion - be it stuck in traffic in central London or a deserted road early in the morning I can't help but smile at the ridiculousness of supercars - they epitomise automotive joy over any sense of practicality and sensible transport. Long may it continue.
The general public seem to have much more of a sense of wonderment at a supercar than most of the respondents on here who seem to think they are a dime a dozen, naff and tragic.
When out driving, I get asked questions, get thumbs up from drivers and motorbike riders, occasionally asked to rev it and plenty of 'nice car mate' comments. Attention and sharing the experience is part of the ownership proposition, you don't have to seek it, but its part of the package.
I agree you don't need to seek attention by reving the car like a prat - most supercars tend to stand out from the crowd by themselves - but the gold wrapped flame shooting London lambos are a tiny minority in my experience. Most owners I have meet are mad about their cars and look after them like one of their children.
In my case, the real reason I bought the car is to drive it, specifically for European drives - in a couple of weeks I'm doing a 3500 mile trip to Corsica and back via the Italian, French and Swiss alps - the memories I'll have from this trip and ones like it are why I have such a car. for the rest of the year I'll be looking forward to the next trip whist remembering the enjoyment of the previous one. I like to savour the experience, I couldn't use a supercar as a daily-driver.
Hence I don't drive the car that much in the UK, but every time I do it's still an occasion - be it stuck in traffic in central London or a deserted road early in the morning I can't help but smile at the ridiculousness of supercars - they epitomise automotive joy over any sense of practicality and sensible transport. Long may it continue.
Murcielago_Boy said:
I have thought of a solution. Go classic. I'm still thinking. But the title of my thread refers to "modern supercar" ownership and perhaps going classic would prove my point.
Thoughts?
Mate, you know I've been saying this for years. You've known it was true ever since that day with you in the 996 GT3RS and me in the Stradale, which incidentally, was over 10 years ago now. You've just taken a long time to accept the truth that if you have a supercar in central London the longest trip will be to park outside The Connaught. Thoughts?
To some extent I can understand why people just pose in their cars in central London- driving is such a joyless experience even in a normal car, what else is there to do to enjoy the car? It's that or get the hell out of town.
But what you say is also true in other, less congested, places which is why I no longer play the latest and greatest game. The older, less capable stuff is just much more fun and has way more class. The one that's got completely under my skin is this one:
55 years old, makes an absolutely ridiculous amount of noise even at 40mph and you need to concentrate just to keep it in a straight line. Wonderful, wonderful thing.
456mgt said:
But what you say is also true in other, less congested, places which is why I no longer play the latest and greatest game. The older, less capable stuff is just much more fun and has way more class. The one that's got completely under my skin is this one:
55 years old, makes an absolutely ridiculous amount of noise even at 40mph and you need to concentrate just to keep it in a straight line. Wonderful, wonderful thing.
55 years old, makes an absolutely ridiculous amount of noise even at 40mph and you need to concentrate just to keep it in a straight line. Wonderful, wonderful thing.
I have to admit when I pass a £300,000 supercar on the motorway, being driven by someone at 68mph, I have to ask myself what the point is. So many compromises. Looks nice but that's about all.
I'd love to own something like a 458 italia spider. But I'd be scared to use it anywhere near its limits, I'd be scared to leave it anywhere where I could come back and find it covered in flem or similar/worse.
So the point of owning something you are scared to use? Maybe I have the wrong impression of those that can and do, but my assumption is its down to their ego largely. "Look at me, yes I am successful". Obviously I shouldn't tar everyone with the same assumption. but its hard not to. The London scene is totally ridiculous, especially with the 'summer visitors'.
And Hypercars? Well, never see them on the road being given the 'beans' at all. Actually, never see them. And when you go to track days they don't meet the criteria for noise. Pointless as a car, probably mostly being bought as an investment these days by clever people making money and again for ego messaging.
I'd love to own something like a 458 italia spider. But I'd be scared to use it anywhere near its limits, I'd be scared to leave it anywhere where I could come back and find it covered in flem or similar/worse.
So the point of owning something you are scared to use? Maybe I have the wrong impression of those that can and do, but my assumption is its down to their ego largely. "Look at me, yes I am successful". Obviously I shouldn't tar everyone with the same assumption. but its hard not to. The London scene is totally ridiculous, especially with the 'summer visitors'.
And Hypercars? Well, never see them on the road being given the 'beans' at all. Actually, never see them. And when you go to track days they don't meet the criteria for noise. Pointless as a car, probably mostly being bought as an investment these days by clever people making money and again for ego messaging.
Its something many many people aspire to and equal number that dont, the ones that make it realise its not ALL THAT and move on to other things, some never get there and carry on dreaming.
I lived it and loved it for a number of years working harder and higher in the car stakes and then like you it started to feel shallow and empty as it was nothing new and in fact was more restrictive than liberating, worrying about parking anywhere, doing too much mileage, bad attitudes from others etc etc
All the cars and houses were substituted for a really down to earth lifestyle in a country that was like the old days with 20% of the population per square mile and where people couldnt care less about money, when i look back or even see people in the 'super' cars I just chuckle to myself that I escaped that vacuous (sp) existence.
You need to have been there and tried it though to give you that perspective and i certainly enjoyed my supercar days
I lived it and loved it for a number of years working harder and higher in the car stakes and then like you it started to feel shallow and empty as it was nothing new and in fact was more restrictive than liberating, worrying about parking anywhere, doing too much mileage, bad attitudes from others etc etc
All the cars and houses were substituted for a really down to earth lifestyle in a country that was like the old days with 20% of the population per square mile and where people couldnt care less about money, when i look back or even see people in the 'super' cars I just chuckle to myself that I escaped that vacuous (sp) existence.
You need to have been there and tried it though to give you that perspective and i certainly enjoyed my supercar days
I don't see why hypercar owners who like bragging about lap times and speeds don't invest 1/10th the money in a ex DTM car or similar. I'd bet my house on it absolutely murdering any hypercar around any circuit.
It's because it's not comfortable to drive to Harrods in a racing car obviously, but then I don't see the point in posturing. Just sit in the back of a Phantom, everyone will know you're adequately wealthy and a massive toss pot without the hassle of 1m+ impractical hypercars.
It's because it's not comfortable to drive to Harrods in a racing car obviously, but then I don't see the point in posturing. Just sit in the back of a Phantom, everyone will know you're adequately wealthy and a massive toss pot without the hassle of 1m+ impractical hypercars.
456mgt said:
Murcielago_Boy said:
I have thought of a solution. Go classic. I'm still thinking. But the title of my thread refers to "modern supercar" ownership and perhaps going classic would prove my point.
Thoughts?
Mate, you know I've been saying this for years. You've known it was true ever since that day with you in the 996 GT3RS and me in the Stradale, which incidentally, was over 10 years ago now. You've just taken a long time to accept the truth that if you have a supercar in central London the longest trip will be to park outside The Connaught. Thoughts?
To some extent I can understand why people just pose in their cars in central London- driving is such a joyless experience even in a normal car, what else is there to do to enjoy the car? It's that or get the hell out of town.
But what you say is also true in other, less congested, places which is why I no longer play the latest and greatest game. The older, less capable stuff is just much more fun and has way more class. The one that's got completely under my skin is this one:
55 years old, makes an absolutely ridiculous amount of noise even at 40mph and you need to concentrate just to keep it in a straight line. Wonderful, wonderful thing.
Naff or irrelevant doesn't matter to me, I still want a supercar so whilst I'm lucky to have a nice slice of 1968's Italian prestige, I still yearn for something modern and bonkers.....
... and a classic!
Couldn't agree more with the OP. Growing up, I loved everything about supercars. Nowadays I couldn't care less, id skip an article about the latest lamborgotti fasterosa 8705-S thats going to be £3squillion quid that only truly awful, tax avoiding s will actually get to drive in favour of a hot hatch any day.
They make their drivers look like a worm perched on a diamond anyway.
Clearly im a well-jel hater
s will actually get to drive in favour of a hot hatch any day.They make their drivers look like a worm perched on a diamond anyway.
Clearly im a well-jel hater
mickyveloce said:
The image of the Supercar today has changed too. The picture below illustrates, for me at least, the epitome of the suave Supercar driver of the 70's which was the golden era for these machines.
Nail hit nicely on the head with this post - for me, this was (and still is to a certain extent) what the very idea of 'supercar' ownership was all about, they were truly exotic and otherworldy, when all we ever saw on the roads were ten year old Zephyrs, rep-mobile Cortinas and BL porridge of various shapes and sizes. If I were in the OP's position I'd be thinking of going down the classic exotic route, I don't know what his budget would be but right now there are some wonderful old school Italian dream cars waiting to be given new enthusiastic homes, namely two of the eight RHD Maserati Ghibli coupes ever built, there are a few Boras and Meraks about, Tom Hartley has a rare RHD Lamborghini Urraco and there are numerous Dino 246s / 308GT4s and 330s on sale. The 246 and 330 series may be stretching it a bit budget wise, but you get the gist. I can honestly say too that if I were in a position to bag any of these cars, I wouldn't hesitate to use them as much as possible - every drive would be an event providing you could find some decent roads, they are out there, you just have to find them.Has supercar ownership ever not been irrelevant and in it's own way naff?
Agreed with a lot of the OP's points but it seems slightly joyless to paint every supercar owner as a social media attention grabbing we or a narcissistic showoffs.
I am lucky enough to have a car that's one of these modern irrelevant cars. It draws more attention than I would like from the general public but then again many people do have a sense of excitement when seeing one of those types of cars and who can blame them - some years ago I was that person getting quite excited to see a Ferrari/Lambo/etc as well after all. The sloane street 'scene' is pretty pathetic but I almost never go there unless absolutely necessary and I refuse to have my choice of car constrained by what a bunch of idiots (both drivers and spotters) get up to. And I have to say the ability of the modern sports car to effectively 'switch off' at slow speeds isn't entirely a bad thing as I don't really need to feel engaged/involved at 30mph or on the (UK) motorway. Having done 30k miles I do actively appreciate the ability of the car just to turn into a mile muncher to get home after a long day on track/driving.
Agreed with a lot of the OP's points but it seems slightly joyless to paint every supercar owner as a social media attention grabbing w
e or a narcissistic showoffs.I am lucky enough to have a car that's one of these modern irrelevant cars. It draws more attention than I would like from the general public but then again many people do have a sense of excitement when seeing one of those types of cars and who can blame them - some years ago I was that person getting quite excited to see a Ferrari/Lambo/etc as well after all. The sloane street 'scene' is pretty pathetic but I almost never go there unless absolutely necessary and I refuse to have my choice of car constrained by what a bunch of idiots (both drivers and spotters) get up to. And I have to say the ability of the modern sports car to effectively 'switch off' at slow speeds isn't entirely a bad thing as I don't really need to feel engaged/involved at 30mph or on the (UK) motorway. Having done 30k miles I do actively appreciate the ability of the car just to turn into a mile muncher to get home after a long day on track/driving.
phib said:
In all honesty these ' Ia 996 GT2 or GT3 or a CSL or a TVR sagaris ' are modern classics and probably raeally good to use.
There not modern supercar fast but still fun
Phib
Yep. I would add into that fun toys like a Clio V6 (hoot of a car), Caterhams, Morgans.... All a reasonable sum of money, but very rewarding and fun to use.There not modern supercar fast but still fun
Phib
(However I would say driving a Sagaris does get you a huge amount of attention. Half as many produced as the F50 makes them pretty rare).
If you buy Porsche Sport Chrono they'll stick one of those on top of the dashboard for just £1,125
http://www.guideautoweb.com/en/galleries/37726/201...
http://www.guideautoweb.com/en/galleries/37726/201...
Gassing Station | General Gassing | Top of Page | What's New | My Stuff