Touchscreens now make sense, bye physical buttons...
Discussion
TTmonkey said:
Every day a journey said:
TheDeuce said:
Ah! But when you KNOW it doesn't work then it's one less button/dial to be distracted by!
I see it’s nice and easy to find.
Sticks. said:
akirk said:
not sure why you would feel sympathy for my home thermostat - it is a machine, it doesn't have feelings - I could change the settings 10 times a minute and it wouldn't care 
But would it be easier with a touch screen? 
The home one is! (Hive) and operated from the phone as well - fortunately no need to operate it while driving!Desiderata said:
Brilliant - Not seen that before! As an aside, I did once put on a ridiculous over-the-top comedy Brummie accent on when giving the Jag an instruction and it understood that. Mrs. D.R. was even more furious!
Deranged Rover said:
Desiderata said:
Brilliant - Not seen that before! As an aside, I did once put on a ridiculous over-the-top comedy Brummie accent on when giving the Jag an instruction and it understood that. Mrs. D.R. was even more furious!
TheDeuce said:
Exactly, I was simply pointing out that each driver doesn't need to make adjustments each time they drive, because their personal settings are saved with their profile.
That's not an opinion or a statement about what people should do is it?
I definitely change seat settings on long journeys. Also on long journeys, I may share the driving so that'll be more seat adjustment. I do like electric seat controls and their relative uniformity and ease of use. I haven't followed all of this thread, please tell me that manufacturers are not now placing seat controls in menus in flat screens? Please, I beg of you? That's not an opinion or a statement about what people should do is it?
donkmeister said:
TheDeuce said:
But really.. how often do people need to adjust temperature controls? The stuff I used to control manually such as defrost and heated seats is all automatic now. There's no reason I need to adjust the actual temperature - set it at your ideal temp once and forget about it.
This always divides opinion on here... Whilst the adjustments are rarely more than a degree one way or the other, most people do actually adjust the cabin temperature of their vehicle regularly. No, I don't mean as often as... say... using their indicators, but few people buy a car, set the temperature to 21 then say "right, never need to touch that again". The reasons include:
1) Different clothing requires different ambient temperatures to be comfortable
2) different activities prior to driving require different ambient temperatures to be comfortable
3) hormone levels change core and skin temp, requiring etc
4) different drivers have different preferences, and most cars are not driven exclusively by one driver.
Hence why the controls for climate, whether physical or touch, are usually accessible regardless of whatever else you are doing.
donkmeister said:
TheDeuce said:
But really.. how often do people need to adjust temperature controls? The stuff I used to control manually such as defrost and heated seats is all automatic now. There's no reason I need to adjust the actual temperature - set it at your ideal temp once and forget about it.
This always divides opinion on here... Whilst the adjustments are rarely more than a degree one way or the other, most people do actually adjust the cabin temperature of their vehicle regularly. No, I don't mean as often as... say... using their indicators, but few people buy a car, set the temperature to 21 then say "right, never need to touch that again". The reasons include:
1) Different clothing requires different ambient temperatures to be comfortable
2) different activities prior to driving require different ambient temperatures to be comfortable
3) hormone levels change core and skin temp, requiring etc
4) different drivers have different preferences, and most cars are not driven exclusively by one driver.
Hence why the controls for climate, whether physical or touch, are usually accessible regardless of whatever else you are doing.
TheDeuce said:
Each driver sets their ideal positions just once, not each time they drive..
Nooooooo! Read the above.
Jeez….are you a vendor of touchscreens to vehicle manufacturers?
You seem unable to accept the views of the many and varied people on your thread that, just possibly, your opinion is…wrong.
I’ve got news for you: on a forum of (broadly speaking) car fans, the vast majority disagree with you,
It only serves to back my assertion that you are an Android. You’ve admitted you wear the same things when you get in your car. Android. Hop in your car, regardless of time of year or clothing, & have the same seat position/temperature/etc. Android. Defo no emotions there
Still, enjoy the rest of your thread. Do count the times different people disagree with you!
mikeiow said:
donkmeister said:
TheDeuce said:
But really.. how often do people need to adjust temperature controls? The stuff I used to control manually such as defrost and heated seats is all automatic now. There's no reason I need to adjust the actual temperature - set it at your ideal temp once and forget about it.
This always divides opinion on here... Whilst the adjustments are rarely more than a degree one way or the other, most people do actually adjust the cabin temperature of their vehicle regularly. No, I don't mean as often as... say... using their indicators, but few people buy a car, set the temperature to 21 then say "right, never need to touch that again". The reasons include:
1) Different clothing requires different ambient temperatures to be comfortable
2) different activities prior to driving require different ambient temperatures to be comfortable
3) hormone levels change core and skin temp, requiring etc
4) different drivers have different preferences, and most cars are not driven exclusively by one driver.
Hence why the controls for climate, whether physical or touch, are usually accessible regardless of whatever else you are doing.
TheDeuce said:
Each driver sets their ideal positions just once, not each time they drive..
Nooooooo! Read the above.
Jeez….are you a vendor of touchscreens to vehicle manufacturers?
You seem unable to accept the views of the many and varied people on your thread that, just possibly, your opinion is…wrong.
I’ve got news for you: on a forum of (broadly speaking) car fans, the vast majority disagree with you,
It only serves to back my assertion that you are an Android. You’ve admitted you wear the same things when you get in your car. Android. Hop in your car, regardless of time of year or clothing, & have the same seat position/temperature/etc. Android. Defo no emotions there
Still, enjoy the rest of your thread. Do count the times different people disagree with you!
On a completely separate branch of discussion I questioned how often people feel the need to adjust certain settings and why, I asked because I'm interested, as I generally don't make frequent adjustments.
heebeegeetee said:
TheDeuce said:
Exactly, I was simply pointing out that each driver doesn't need to make adjustments each time they drive, because their personal settings are saved with their profile.
That's not an opinion or a statement about what people should do is it?
I definitely change seat settings on long journeys. Also on long journeys, I may share the driving so that'll be more seat adjustment. I do like electric seat controls and their relative uniformity and ease of use. I haven't followed all of this thread, please tell me that manufacturers are not now placing seat controls in menus in flat screens? Please, I beg of you? That's not an opinion or a statement about what people should do is it?
RicksAlfas said:
TheDeuce said:
RicksAlfas said:
TheDeuce said:
Agree about wiper controls and obviously hazard and other lights.
But what's everyone's obsession with needing to constantly fiddle with climate/heating settings? Just set and forget no...?
Heated seats and steering wheels? Full power to start with and then turn down/off once into a journey. But what's everyone's obsession with needing to constantly fiddle with climate/heating settings? Just set and forget no...?
I am sure even you can see that is not unreasonable!
That's what caused me to start this thread, because all of a sudden 'missing' controls no longer felt missing, 99% of the time they're now simply not needed.. providing the car is setup intelligently and does a decent job of learning each drivers preferences.
"Hey Google, turn down the steering wheel heater"
Works on my XC60, no pressing of touchscreen required (just as well as the icons are miniscule...). Understands Glaswegian, and being Google-based is quite smart and doesn't rely on having to give precise phrases, e.g. heated seat or seat heater are both acceptable.
I adjust seat positioning slightly during long journeys for comfort. At least I used to, my current BMW doesn’t have electric seats. So now I don’t, and to be honest it’s not a big deal. I mostly don’t mess with the climate control thermostat, it’s set to a comfortable temperature and appears to modulate its output to achieve it.
I think if you tried to put all of the available configuration in a modern car onto physical switches, you’d spend as much time looking at the switches as you would looking at the screen.
I think if you tried to put all of the available configuration in a modern car onto physical switches, you’d spend as much time looking at the switches as you would looking at the screen.
Ninja59 said:
"A new study by the UK’s transport research laboratory (TRL) shows that the latest in-vehicle infotainment systems that display smartphone apps on in-car displays impair reaction times behind the wheel more than alcohol and cannabis use"
https://etsc.eu/apple-carplay-and-android-auto-inf...
And also this one which shows an old Volvo doing 4 tasks in 306 metres v a BMW iX that took nearly 1km and an MG taking even longer.
https://etsc.eu/physical-buttons-outperform-touchs...
Reality is driver profiles, voice control solutions are plasters over poorly implemented, overly complex UI problems that should never have existed.
In addition, the highlight of modern anti collision systems to also plaster over poor driving potentially because of these systems is a menace. If anything, I find my mum's XC40 beyond annoying with the safety systems that get scared by the odd parked car and slam on the brakes for no sodding reason (and no it is normal).
I get the need for more functionality but some of it coming out now is nothing more than an utter gimmick that causes the potential for more accidents.
I simply should not have to be forced to use voice control to turn a heated seat on and off because some utter moron did not think I would be driving and placing the menu 3 clicks down was sensible at XX mph.
I work in the automotive world, I also could be referred to as the "Ministry of Crap Design" it's my specialist subject lol. That research is fabulous and very precisely shows what we are taking about. https://etsc.eu/apple-carplay-and-android-auto-inf...
And also this one which shows an old Volvo doing 4 tasks in 306 metres v a BMW iX that took nearly 1km and an MG taking even longer.
https://etsc.eu/physical-buttons-outperform-touchs...
Reality is driver profiles, voice control solutions are plasters over poorly implemented, overly complex UI problems that should never have existed.
In addition, the highlight of modern anti collision systems to also plaster over poor driving potentially because of these systems is a menace. If anything, I find my mum's XC40 beyond annoying with the safety systems that get scared by the odd parked car and slam on the brakes for no sodding reason (and no it is normal).
I get the need for more functionality but some of it coming out now is nothing more than an utter gimmick that causes the potential for more accidents.
I simply should not have to be forced to use voice control to turn a heated seat on and off because some utter moron did not think I would be driving and placing the menu 3 clicks down was sensible at XX mph.
Edited by Ninja59 on Tuesday 5th December 09:44
Edited by Ninja59 on Tuesday 5th December 09:49
"According to the magazine’s conclusions, the easiest car to understand and operate, by a large margin, was the 2005 Volvo V70. The four tasks were handled within ten seconds during which the car drove 306 meters at 110 km/h.
At the other end of the scale, was the Chinese electric car, the MG Marvel R. The driver needed 44.6 seconds before all the tasks were completed, during which the car had travelled 1,372 meters – more than four times the distance compared to the old Volvo."
I get a vast choice of cars to use, guess what car I drive myself because it's joyfully easy to use.
The V70 looks somewhat busy to me, especially given that it doesn’t have much functionality.
Probably shouldn’t have 18 buttons to operate the car phone, or at least shouldn’t let you use them on the move. The 25 buttons for the stereo seem a bit excessive, I suppose some people might adjust the bass and treble while driving.
Probably shouldn’t have 18 buttons to operate the car phone, or at least shouldn’t let you use them on the move. The 25 buttons for the stereo seem a bit excessive, I suppose some people might adjust the bass and treble while driving.
TheDeuce said:
The bit you and everyone else keeps quoting about me saying drivers that share a car only need to adjust stuff once, not each trip - isn't an opinion or personal preference. It was in response to someone that assumed people sharing a Tesla would need to go into the screen to move their seat/wheel back to their preferred position. They don't need to do that though, as their settings are saved and the car will revert to their settings the moment they unlock it.
On a completely separate branch of discussion I questioned how often people feel the need to adjust certain settings and why, I asked because I'm interested, as I generally don't make frequent adjustments.
You do make a lot of assumptions about how other people live On a completely separate branch of discussion I questioned how often people feel the need to adjust certain settings and why, I asked because I'm interested, as I generally don't make frequent adjustments.
My wife will often drive to a destination and I will drive back, or if a longer journey we might share the journey… we take one key with us, how does the car know which profile to use (if we bothered to set them up!)
You claim that the car will recognise the driver’s settings - how?! It has no idea who is driving…
How does a car ‘know’ the right temperature - you claim that it learns - how does it learn the irrational needs of eg a woman going through menopause, or a driver of either sex who normally likes the temperature lowish but today was caught in a rain downpour and wants the temperature higher to warm up?
Car’s really are not that intelligent, it is like the claims about AI’s ability when in reality it is a cross between an encyclopaedia and a rather average 6 year old! Cars are thick, they don’t learn the driver accurately, they don’t manage automated systems well, the technology is flawed and until it gets somewhere near the abilities of my 3 yr old niece who is far more capable then I will keep on making the decisions rather than letting an inert lump of metal get it wrong and block me from quick speedy operations!
Best example I have of touchscreens being plain stupid is coming out to my Tesla model S one morning and finding the over the air software update had moved my heating controls around the screen.
f
k you Elon.
Current Lexus has buttons for everything except the seat heating, but also ‘climate concierge’ which means it does seats wheel and heating all automatically. It’s very good, so you don’t actually need to turn the seats on or off.
But I’d still like heated seat buttons…
f
k you Elon.Current Lexus has buttons for everything except the seat heating, but also ‘climate concierge’ which means it does seats wheel and heating all automatically. It’s very good, so you don’t actually need to turn the seats on or off.
But I’d still like heated seat buttons…
akirk said:
My wife will often drive to a destination and I will drive back, or if a longer journey we might share the journey… we take one key with us, how does the car know which profile to use (if we bothered to set them up!)
Quite a few cars I’ve owned had a little row of numbered buttons down by the electric seat controls. With a modern car you could easily put named profiles up on the touchscreen with preferences for seat, wheel and mirror positions and HVAC and audio preferences. Surprised if some cars don’t do that. akirk said:
TheDeuce said:
The bit you and everyone else keeps quoting about me saying drivers that share a car only need to adjust stuff once, not each trip - isn't an opinion or personal preference. It was in response to someone that assumed people sharing a Tesla would need to go into the screen to move their seat/wheel back to their preferred position. They don't need to do that though, as their settings are saved and the car will revert to their settings the moment they unlock it.
On a completely separate branch of discussion I questioned how often people feel the need to adjust certain settings and why, I asked because I'm interested, as I generally don't make frequent adjustments.
You do make a lot of assumptions about how other people live On a completely separate branch of discussion I questioned how often people feel the need to adjust certain settings and why, I asked because I'm interested, as I generally don't make frequent adjustments.
My wife will often drive to a destination and I will drive back, or if a longer journey we might share the journey… we take one key with us, how does the car know which profile to use (if we bothered to set them up!)
You claim that the car will recognise the driver’s settings - how?! It has no idea who is driving…
How does a car ‘know’ the right temperature - you claim that it learns - how does it learn the irrational needs of eg a woman going through menopause, or a driver of either sex who normally likes the temperature lowish but today was caught in a rain downpour and wants the temperature higher to warm up?
Car’s really are not that intelligent, it is like the claims about AI’s ability when in reality it is a cross between an encyclopaedia and a rather average 6 year old! Cars are thick, they don’t learn the driver accurately, they don’t manage automated systems well, the technology is flawed and until it gets somewhere near the abilities of my 3 yr old niece who is far more capable then I will keep on making the decisions rather than letting an inert lump of metal get it wrong and block me from quick speedy operations!
That Volvo is a beauty of overly buttoning things, eh!
The Porsche Macan once did a similarly atrocious effort:
But *some* things are always safer & faster to operate with physical buttons.
A simple fact that our OP will never absorb or agree.
& yes, although none of us can predict this with 100% certainty, I firmly believe that screen failures, in years to come, *will* be bricking vehicles of the future, sadly.
mikeiow said:
akirk said:
TheDeuce said:
The bit you and everyone else keeps quoting about me saying drivers that share a car only need to adjust stuff once, not each trip - isn't an opinion or personal preference. It was in response to someone that assumed people sharing a Tesla would need to go into the screen to move their seat/wheel back to their preferred position. They don't need to do that though, as their settings are saved and the car will revert to their settings the moment they unlock it.
On a completely separate branch of discussion I questioned how often people feel the need to adjust certain settings and why, I asked because I'm interested, as I generally don't make frequent adjustments.
You do make a lot of assumptions about how other people live On a completely separate branch of discussion I questioned how often people feel the need to adjust certain settings and why, I asked because I'm interested, as I generally don't make frequent adjustments.
My wife will often drive to a destination and I will drive back, or if a longer journey we might share the journey… we take one key with us, how does the car know which profile to use (if we bothered to set them up!)
You claim that the car will recognise the driver’s settings - how?! It has no idea who is driving…
How does a car ‘know’ the right temperature - you claim that it learns - how does it learn the irrational needs of eg a woman going through menopause, or a driver of either sex who normally likes the temperature lowish but today was caught in a rain downpour and wants the temperature higher to warm up?
Car’s really are not that intelligent, it is like the claims about AI’s ability when in reality it is a cross between an encyclopaedia and a rather average 6 year old! Cars are thick, they don’t learn the driver accurately, they don’t manage automated systems well, the technology is flawed and until it gets somewhere near the abilities of my 3 yr old niece who is far more capable then I will keep on making the decisions rather than letting an inert lump of metal get it wrong and block me from quick speedy operations!
That Volvo is a beauty of overly buttoning things, eh!
The Porsche Macan once did a similarly atrocious effort:
But *some* things are always safer & faster to operate with physical buttons.
A simple fact that our OP will never absorb or agree.
& yes, although none of us can predict this with 100% certainty, I firmly believe that screen failures, in years to come, *will* be bricking vehicles of the future, sadly.
Cars have had central control infotainment screens for well over a decade. They're dirt cheap to replace and generally extremely reliable.
andy43 said:
Best example I have of touchscreens being plain stupid is coming out to my Tesla model S one morning and finding the over the air software update had moved my heating controls around the screen.
fk you Elon.
Current Lexus has buttons for everything except the seat heating, but also ‘climate concierge’ which means it does seats wheel and heating all automatically. It’s very good, so you don’t actually need to turn the seats on or off.
But I’d still like heated seat buttons…
You touch on another key driver for the switch to touchscreens there: it's much easier for manufacturers to incorporate new features to a touchscreen through OTA updates as opposed to working with a finite number of existing physical buttons, which aren't labelled for the new feature.f
k you Elon.Current Lexus has buttons for everything except the seat heating, but also ‘climate concierge’ which means it does seats wheel and heating all automatically. It’s very good, so you don’t actually need to turn the seats on or off.
But I’d still like heated seat buttons…
And any manufacturer that doesn't offer OTA updates is going to fall behind in the market nowadays.
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